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Ok, so it's off to the races! The first thing I needed to do was build the intake flanges. I used a piece of 4"x3' 3/16" piece of flat steel that I bought at Lowe's. (in fact all of the steel I used for this project I bought at either Lowe's or Menard's) I used an old intake manifold gasket from a GL1500 engine that I bought to use as a jig for this project, and traced it out on my steel.

Then I cut the two pieces from the steel.

Next up is drilling. I did a lot of drilling :action:

 

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I do have access to a drill press, and it made things a lot easier. Just mark the center of the holes, and be VERY careful to be sure the center of the drill bit starts where the lines cross... (FYI: the laser cross-hairs are pretty much worthless.) And, yes, I used a hole saw.

Here is a shot with all the runner holes drilled.

Next up is the mounting holes..... and test fitting.

 

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OK, so here is the part where I start cutting and grinding metal. It sure would have been nice to just have a machine shop cut these out for me, but that would have been too easy. This is also where I was in the project when I found a big lump on my back tire. (just happened to be walking by the bike, looked down at the back tire and something definitely wasn't right!) I lost the better part of two days because of this. I ended up removing both front and back tires, replacing the rear brake rotor and doing a complete brake job on the bike as well. I also added baffles to my exhaust while I was at it. This improved things a lot, but I'm still thinking I may go ahead and try the GL1800 mufflers before I do the EFI conversion.


Ok, enough of that, back on topic.


Here's some of the ugliness as it was happening!

 

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Not the prettiest, or most precise pieces in the world, but functional. And, hey, once this is completed it's going to be under a bunch of tupperware for it's entire life and no one will really see it anyways.

From here it's time to start thinking about the runners. My first plan failed miserably and caused me some alarm. I had a hydraulic bender (piece of crap) and thought that I could bend 1" electrical conduit for the runners. Well, the bender wasn't up to it. (or I wasn't up to it... Hey, I'll admit it....) Kinks, dings you name it. Well, luckily I found out that I could buy pre-bent 1" electrical conduit at Lowe's for only 3.48 a piece. I just about cleaned them out.

So, I took one piece of conduit and placed it next to the original GL1500 manifold on the edge of the bench for comparison. Marked my spot and used a miter saw with a cutoff wheel attached to it to make the cut.


Here's my not so scientific method for making the rest of the runners...

And here's all six runners with the two mounting flanges

Next up, joining everything together on the motor and fabricating the box.

 

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I got the bright idea here of using a 1" wooden dowel to line up the center runners. Figured I'd tack weld them in place and then cut them to length later. It actually worked out pretty well.

I also fabricated the ends of the box that the runners go into at this time.

 

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Ok, here's where it really starts to get ugly... My first attempt ever at welding.

And now, test fitting the other runners...

Now the other side, and removing the tacked on pieces for welding and yet more grinding! :action:

Some closeups of the welds....

After some grinding.....

 

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I may get picky and do a lot more grinding to make things look nice. At the time I was doing this I knew my allotted time was running out, and I wanted to get as far as I could before I had to leave. (long haul truck driver) So, I put the grinding on the back burner for now, and started fabricating the box. I only got the bottom done, and the top piece is cut out, but no holes yet for the throttle body mounts.

And here's the final shots with the top piece just sitting on it to give you an idea of what it'll look like when it's done. I am going to do some research into intake manifold volume, and how it effects the operation/performance of the motor. Right now I'm thinking that there will be dividers welded into the box to reduce the volume to as close to stock as I can. But, that may change after I do some reading....

And, that's it for now. It'll probably be another month or so before I get a chance to get back to this.

Just remember, what I lack in skill, I try to make up for in determination! :action:

 

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Very interesting thread, and apart from the welding issues (probably still looks better than mine) you're doing quite a fab job. Looking forward to seeing more.

On edit, one thing that comes to mind is the length of the intake runners. I've never seen an 1800 intake but I'm wondering if the long runners will cause problems @ low rpms.

Steve

 

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Actually, the runners really aren't much longer than the stock GL1500 runners. Here's a photo I took with the GL1800 throttle bodies sitting on top of the engine before I took it out of the truck. If not for the offset of the two manifolds, it's only about 1/2" or less from fitting. The box on the other hand has a lot of volume, and I do plan on reducing it with dividers. I also don't trust my welding to be 100% air tight, so I'll be coating the inside of the box and the welds on the flanges with epoxy. Then I'll paint the entire outside of the manifold with POR 15 which should finish sealing things up.

Doug

 

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Got my attention!!!!



Awesome job!!



Keep it coming when you get back. I am eagerly awaiting your return.



Tim.

 

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Looks good.one thing comes to mind is the gl1500 and the GL1800 manifolds are two piece,will you be able to install your one piece manifold?

 

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Looks good.one thing comes to mind is the gl1500 and the GL1800 manifolds are two piece,will you be able to install your one piece manifold?

Yeah, I've thought about this too... Actually, the GL1800 manifold is one piece. (two manifolds, but only one piece. If that makes any sense...) But the answer to your question is yes. I'll be able to do it even if I have to drop the engine. I'd rather not have to go that far if it can be avoided though.... Come to think of it, both sides will be separate from each other so worst case scenario, I could always cut it in half.... No... I couldn't do that.... It'd be kinda like taking sandpaper to a new paint job.


GL1800 manifold:

 

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Great job you have done.

Got my interest for sure. I have always loved EFI because of the way it just "starts and goes".

Anxious to see more when you get back from OTR.


Pinned this to the top of the page so it don't get lost.
John

 

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:waving:



Very interesting job fer sure!!!!

How are you going to mount the injectors???



Too bad an adapter can't be put between the 1500 head and the 1800 manifold.



Have you thought of using one throttle body on your intake box??



Definately a lot of engineering going on here....



Smooth sailing..... John/kb0ou

 

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It looks like your definately on your way.

The picture of the thottle body to the manifold also answered one of my questions.



I am curious on where you are going to put the injectors.





Great job and much better than I could do.:thumbsup:

 

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Too bad an adapter can't be put between the 1500 head and the 1800 manifold.

Very interesting idea John. My friend and I had discussed the possibility of doing an adapter for the 1500 manifolds to fit the GL1800 throttle bodies. But I wasn't keen on the idea. My friend may have mentioned this, but I probably wasn't listening as closely as I should have been at the time. At first I thought there would be offset issues. But after looking closely at some photos, it might be possible. I even have an idea how I could do it. The problem is that unless you cut the manifold it will block off access to your spark plugs. Not completely, but probably just enough that you'd have to remove the manifold to get them out.

** Correction ** I just looked closely at the photo where I laid the intake gasket from the 1500 over the manifold for the 1800 and it would pretty much completely block access to the spark plugs. Cutting the manifold would make zero difference because the fuel rails and where they mount to the manifold would be in the way. You can't cut those....

Have you thought of using one throttle body on your intake box??

Actually my goal was to use as much as possible of the GL1800 system. The one drawback I see to using a single throttle body is that you then have to join both sides of the manifold to form basically a single plane manifold. This effects engine performance. It may not be all that bad, and it might even be good. I just don't know. One advantage that I can see to doing this is that you wouldn't ever have to worry about balancing your throttle bodies. But then again, I could join both sides of the manifold with my current throttle bodies and I still wouldn't have to worry about balancing them. In fact, I'm not even sure there is a way to balance them. I did read something in the service manual about not turning the screws with white paint on them because it would throw the factory balancing off. But I haven't really read the manual in depth.

I am curious on where you are going to put the injectors.

My first inclination is to drill the runners right above the intake ports in the head. Cut my injector bungs to match the curvature of the runners and weld them in place shooting straight down at the intake valve. There might be a clearance issue with something else on the bike though. (Frame, ducting, tupperware, etc etc....) So, this is something that I'm going to have to look closely at, and probably dis-assemble the bike some to figure out.

I do have a backup plan, but I'm not as happy with it. There is a lot more room under my manifold because it takes up less space than the stock cast manifolds. That, and the fact that there is some tubing that will likely be removed, should leave me enough room to drill into the underside of the runners right above the flange and put my injectors there. Unfortunately, the injectors would no longer be shooting straight down at the intake valves. I believe this would work. But, it's less desirable in my opinion.




Doug

 

...The one drawback I see to using a single throttle body is that you then have to join both sides of the manifold to form basically a single plane manifold. This effects engine performance. It may not be all that bad, and it might even be good. I just don't know. Doug

Well, I haven't read this thread and only found this page of it through a Google search for something similar, so I'm not certain where you're at with your build. I can say this with certainty though:

Through modeled engine induction testing and then on to actual field trials of the modeled design applicable to a GL1000 with various internal modificatiions with a single plane manifold using a single Weber progressive 2-barrel carburetor I achieved a 12% increase in torque and a 26% increase in horsepower.

My modifications are many, yet simple.

I've a 100+ horsepower GL1000 using a single-plane intake and a single carburetor.

Should yours be so different as to not find the same ball-parked results?

Just food for thought wether carburetted or EFI.

BTW - I use a unitized (read: "one-piece") intake just like the 1800 (and the assembled 1500 "manifold"). Odd how some berate the "unitized" or "one-piece" manifold concept publically yet make their living on the back of Hondas fine engineering. As I know it, the M1 started with a one-piece intake and the 1800 has found it again.

Fortunately my manifold is heated via engine coolant and lends itself nicely to Carburetor, TBI, MPFI or Nitrous, ...or a mix of the four.

I did see the 2:1 adapter you've come up with for either air control or TBI before posting on my landing page. Nice job on it. When I get more time I'll read through the thread.

A pic of my first manifold for a visual...

 

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Great job and will be watching for up dates

 

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Not a mechanic eh?? Remind me not to EVER get in a game of Poker with you!!!!:shock::shock::cheeky1:



For not ever having welded, those actually look pretty good!!One thingI would suggest doing is to leak test the welds on each pipe. After a bit of thought, whatI'd do ismount each intake rack on the apropriate head, rig an air fitting to screw into the spark plug hole, and cap the pipe ends with one of the aftermarket rubber car engine block freeze plugs that expand when you tighten the nut on the outside of the plug.



Rotate the engine till the intake valve is open then apply about 2-4lbs of air pressure and check the welded area with some soapy water. Mark any leaks with a soapstone for touch up welding,and then repeat for each pipe weld....



Otherwise you might have to chase a vacumn leak after everything is installed!!:shock:



It look like a fantastic job you've doneso far though!!!:coollep::coollep::coollep:

 

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How are you going to control the fuel flow and sequence on your injectors?

 

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How are you going to control the fuel flow and sequence on your injectors?

I'm planning on using a MicroSquirt EFI computer. The plan right now is to set it up for bank fire injection using two wideband o2 sensors (one for each bank). I haven't purchased the unit yet, as I'm still in the process of gathering all of the peripherals. (temp sensors, o2 sensors, o2 bungs, and anything else that I may be forgetting)


Here's a link to their web site. There is a LOT of information there.

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html


I still need to do a lot of reading on this, but I have a general idea of how things work. Of course, the devil is always in the details! :badgrin:

To be honest, I'm not really all that worried about the electronics part of the project. If I can follow directions and reason things out for myself, I'll be fine. I'm far more concerned with fitment issues of all the components. Things like... Is there enough room to put the injectors where I want to?... Where can I put the o2 sensors to make sure they are getting readings only from the bank they're supposed to be getting readings from... Where do I mount the MicroSquirt? What am I going to do about an airbox?.... These are all things that I'll get worked out in time....



Doug

 

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Doug, from what little I've read about the Megasquirt/Microsquirt set-up, it can be used without the O2 sensors, simular to what's on the fuel injected GL1200's.... Why go more complex than you need too?? :blackstuff:

 

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Doug, from what little I've read about the Megasquirt/Microsquirt set-up, it can be used without the O2 sensors, simular to what's on the fuel injected GL1200's.... Why go more complex than you need too??

This is a good question. Probably the most correct answer is "Because I like to torture myself"

But the answer I'm telling myself is: Efficiency, and it's also an attempt to make things easier when it gets to the tuning phase of the project. I want to take advantage of a feature called Automatic Mixture Control. This combined with their AutoTune software allows you to set up the computer to automatically monitor and update your VE tables for peak efficiency, horsepower, economy or whatever you want to set it up for. It should make things easier when I actually start running the bike. Once I've been running it for awhile and the tables are pretty well defined/set I can change the frequency the computer checks on things to very rarely. Of course, things are always changing with complex mechanical systems (wear and tear, etc...) so It's a good idea not to turn it completely off in my humble opinion.


Here's a link to that section of the MegaSquirt manual.

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/amc.htm



Doug

 

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Outlaw wrote:

Doug, from what little I've read about the Megasquirt/Microsquirt set-up, it can be used without the O2 sensors, simular to what's on the fuel injected GL1200's.... Why go more complex than you need too??

This is a good question. Probably the most correct answer is "Because I like to torture myself"

But the answer I'm telling myself is: Efficiency, and it's also an attempt to make things easier when it gets to the tuning phase of the project. I want to take advantage of a feature called Automatic Mixture Control. This combined with their AutoTune software allows you to set up the computer to automatically monitor and update your VE tables for peak efficiency, horsepower, economy or whatever you want to set it up for. It should make things easier when I actually start running the bike. Once I've been running it for awhile and the tables are pretty well defined/set I can change the frequency the computer checks on things to very rarely. Of course, things are always changing with complex mechanical systems (wear and tear, etc...) so It's a good idea not to turn it completely off in my humble opinion.


Here's a link to that section of the MegaSquirt manual.

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/amc.htm



Doug

Note to self: Play neither Poker or Chess with this man......

 

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Why not just save up some money, add it to the proceeds you get from selling your GL1500, and just buy a preowned GL1800 with EFI. I'm not knocking your project, in fact I think its quite innovative, but there are a lot of what-ifs that can and likely will occur in the end. What if it doesn't work? What if it works but you gain no improvement from your project such as better fuel economy or improved power or performance because everything wasn't and isn't able to be tuned perfectly with your design? Or worse of all, what if it ends up sounding and/or riding like a Harley. LOL!

I'm quite sure Honda used a team of engineers to design the injection system on the GL1800 and it had undergone much R & D before being perfected, yet you're going at it almost alone. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I look at your project and it makes me wanna turn around and run. But if you make it work, you will have created a first for the 1500. Good luck on your project. I will eagerly await the end results!

 

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I think that I explained the answer to your question pretty well here: http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum4/120779.html 

Look toward the end...

I could have bought an 1800, but that wasn't what I wanted. And, to be perfectly honest, this isn't the first time I've considered doing an EFI project on a motorcycle. It's just the first time I've done anything about it. As to the "what if's" you're right, there are a lot of them. And, they will all be overcome. There is no doubt in my mind that this will work. Any internal combustion engine can be run with EFI, it doesn't have to be designed for it. Quite the contrary, the EFI system is design/tweaked to work for the engine.