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1990 GL1500 dies in gear

6K views 60 replies 12 participants last post by  redwing52 
#1 ·
1990 GL1500
recently my wing up and dies when I'm driving it, even stranger is when it dies the radio goes into a deep mute mode, when i put the bike into neutral the audio comes back to normal. this has happened about 5 times within the last ten miles, now it runs fine in neutral but as soon as i put it into gear the engine dies and the radio mutes. remembering the radio mutes in reverse and if in reverse the engine will die if you put it into gear, i tried to put it into reverse, the radio mutes and the lever seems to feel funny and it will not go into reverse at all, so i cant move the bike forward or backward unless i'm pushing it.

please help

Larry
708-721-0279
 
#2 ·
my wife posted this for me, anyone got any ideas????
 
#3 ·
My first thought was side stand safety switch, but it sounds like you need to investigate the reverse switch mechanism. Remove the lever and side cover to inspect clean and lubricate.
The radio mute thing has me stumped, as that's usually a problem with the 5 amp fuse in the relay box.

Anyone else?
 
#5 ·
If it were mine I would look at the reverse switch first - sounds like it might be sticking or otherwise faulty... Then perhaps the sidestand switch...

Les
 
#9 ·
Remember that it helps greatly to rock the bike forwards/backwards when moving the Reverse lever.

The moving parts have a bad tendency to hang up if there is pressure on the sliding parts. ie, bike is on a minor slope up or down hill.

I have always found it to be very helpful to rock the bike when moving the reverse lever.

In fact, just yesterday I test drove a 1993 trike and used the Reverse intentionally to verify it was in working order for my new friend who wants to buy it. I noticed that the lever moved much easier when I swung my body weight forwards/backwards.

Just something from owning two of the beasts.
 
#11 ·
before yesterdays problem mine only mute on reverse when lever is up and locked in and the start button is being pushed during reverses movement

and AZgl1800 I hear ya on rocking the bike but reverse is only a suspicion i have, primary problem is the engine dies in gear like it in reverses or side stand is down (but it test good) and when it dies the radio goes into mute until you put the transmission back into neutral.

thanks though
 
#12 ·
When you say you tested the side stand switch, do you mean you jumpered the green/green white wires at the side stand switch like Redwing suggested?
 
#17 ·
YES Green/green white wires jumpered with no change to problem.

I had tested exactly in that way, reverse lever up, R indicator on and start/reverse button pushed, radio did not mute.

If it is a normal feature of GL1500s, then it may be because of the difference between Euro and US versions.
Yours is 10 years newer than mine too, my radio always went into mute when activating reverse "pushing start button" possible Honda changed that over the years. (Help sr guys?)

As for reverse lever / switches on left side, i cleaned and lube them, both cables seem to be great, switch switch on left by lever seems to be working, pin is fine, yes always pull out on lever first, with left side switch unplugged bike thinks the lever is pulled and I have same symptoms as when i was on side of road yesterday. I'm thinking the problem is inside where the linkages are moving whatever to make the bike actually go into reverse. Does anyone have a repair manual with pics and or information on what the cables / linkages are doing above the starter???

Thanks again for everyone trying to help. :frown2::crying2:

P.S. Chisandman and Justwingnit are one in the same, Chisandman is Justwingnit's wife
 
#13 ·
You said you were new to the 1500 so maybe you have not been using the reverse lever right. You must pull it out away from the bike before lifting it up to reverse position. Otherwise you will likely bend the small pin that goes into a hole in the mechanism behind the lever. If so, that would cause it to bind up as you are experiencing. I think that may be your problem. Take the panels off and the lower fairing on that side and then remove the lever to inspect behind it and see if the pin is bent.
 
#15 ·
As mentioned you need to investigate the reverse switch mechanism located behind the body panel left side.
Remove the lever and the body panel. There is no shortcut here, as you need to be able to see the switch mechanism moving as you pull the lever. They get dirty and need to be cleaned and lubed periodically. When they get mucked up the switch can't make contact and might even get bent. misaligned or damaged if left long enough. The lever pull may also feel stiff. You'll be able to check the electrical and mechanical function quickly.
Lube the right side cables if possible too.
 
#16 ·
Also when I first got my 1500 I had problems with the reverse. It was that I didn't pull the lever out first then up. If you don't pull it out you can't pull it up to engage it. Yes, I too wonder how you tested the sidestand switch?
 
#22 ·
How old is the battery and are the connections tight?
Rayjoe
the battery is new this season, the clock and radio presets all stay, if it was an connection or battery problem the radio memory and clock would be gone and the bike would / should have starting problems and it starts right up cold or hot.

2nd post down details adjustment for the GL1500

http://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24556
I'll double check this tomorrow but as I have said the cables are snug, the switching into and out of reverse has been smooth, i use reverse all the time.

but i'll go read that stuff possible my answer is in one of thoes articles on that forum, thanks for the link

The only thing I can think of is that the cables change electrically is to ground or un-ground the reverse switch. It does that function and engages the gear.
this switching from ground to unground, is it in the switch by the reverse lever (left side)? I'm betting engaging of the gear is the problem, how do i get to the gearing for reverse?

when trying to engage the reverse when moving the lever the neutral light goes out, at that exact moment the radio mutes, but the "R" light does not come on. the "R" light is working because it lights up when i first turn the key on. Push the reverses lever back down and radio comes back and neutral light comes back on.

I've aske before and it seems like the answer must be NO but does anyone have a repair manual section on the reverse linkages, that are internal near the starter that the reverse lever/cables are engaging so I can learn how that all works? With my mechanical background I'm thinking the problem seems to be related the the fact that the electronics thinks the bike is in reverse.
 
#24 ·
Dies in Gear

justwingnit wrote:

"The battery is new this season, the clock and radio presets all stay, if it was an connection or battery problem the radio memory and clock would be gone and the bike would / should have starting problems and it starts right up cold or hot."


The reason I asked is because of something I witnessed at the local shop.

A customer brought in a bike that the electronic speedo would act up above 30 mph. They checked the sensor and speedo itself and could not find the problem. Finally one of the techs grabbed the wiring harness on the right side and shook it. The speedo when nuts.

Long story short. The positive cable was just laying on the battery. The owner had disconnected it for some reason and forgot to reconnect it. This bike had been ridden about a 100 miles this way and had been started 20-30 times trying to recreate the problem. If I had not been there and seen it myself I not sure I would have believed it.

Think about it. The starter draws a lot of power to start the bike and the positive cable was just laying on the battery. NO BOLT!!

Sorry about the length of this post. Bad connections can manifest lots of different problems.

Hope you figure it out.

Rayjoe
 
#25 ·
Rayjoe, it is expressed frequently on this forum that loose contacts will cause heat and voltage drop.

Back to your problem,
The ignition is cancelled by ECU/ECM automatically by monitoring the side stand switch and gear shift sensor inputs. So, if it dies when shifting 1st gear the problem should be at the side stand switch or wiring.

Or a stuck clutch. Try shifting when the bike is on the centerstand. If it is a stuck clutch it will probably not die and the rear wheel will turn.

I couldn't find any explanation for the reverse system will cause this problem yet.
 
#27 ·
I cant thank all of you on this forum enough every time I've had truble you all come threw with a lot to think about and some times a direct "hay i had that happen to me"

after dadztoys gave me the link to the other page, i have been over there reading and reading, and downloading.

At this time I can officially say I'm baffled and have no clue where I'm going to look / test next.

RECAP PROBLEM...
Bike engine shuts off like turning kill switch when shifting out of neutral! At the exact moment the engine dies the radio will mute. Pull shiftier back into neutral the radio comes back off mute and you can restart engine. Try to put it into reverse the neutral light goes out but the "R" light does not come on and it has no response to pressing start button. Side stand switch is unplugged and jumped (as a test) at the bike side of plug green / green whit.

I have years experience with automotive and motorcycle schematic reading so I pray I dont get a headache and can figure this out.

Bellboy40 I plan to go threw that diagram and the bike to marrow hopefully i find something that makes scene.
Erdeniz Umman I agree this is why it is by passed and on center stand or not same problem

:surprise::|:|:frown2::crying2:
 
#29 ·
Mike, I agree 100% that the reverse system is a very complicated system and hard to understand all its functions. The pdf files I sent have a description of how the reverse system works as well as some simplified wiring diagrams to help follow along as you read how it works. It seems to be more complicated than necessary but I guess the lawyers had a big say in how it was designed to help prevent some lawsuits.
I also worked in the electronics field for over 30 years and with about 9 months of electronic training in the Air Force and several more months of electronic training in my job at the telephone company. Those Honda wiring diagrams for the 1500 are still hard to read.
 
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#30 ·
Mike, I agree 100% that the reverse system is a very complicated system and hard to understand all its functions. The pdf files I sent have a description of how the reverse system works as well as some simplified wiring diagrams to help follow along as you read how it works. It seems to be more complicated than necessary but I guess the lawyers had a big say in how it was designed to help prevent some lawsuits.
I also worked in the electronics field for over 30 years and with about 9 months of electronic training in the Air Force and several more months in my job at the telephone company. Those Honda wiring diagrams for the 1500 are still hard to read.
do you think the engine shutting off and radio muting is related to a reverse problem?
 
#31 ·
justwingnit,

have you electronically checked (ohmeter) the reverse switch that is actuated by the reverse lever??? This sure sounds like a reverse microswitch issue to me... Almost sounds like only 1/2 the switch is working...

Les
 
#33 ·
how would you recommend I test this? At this time that switch is not even on the bike. removed completely, and at the bike side of plug the green /green whit wires are jumed
 
#34 ·
I am just a neophyte to electronics, passed my FCC Telecommunications exams for Radio Telephone 1st Class back in 1959..... 5 years of college in electroncis, and 50+ years of diagnoziing these thangs ever since.....

and those Honda diagrams are created by specialists in how to cornfuse the most edjukated ijit on this planet...

in plain English, it is not easy to plow thru these wiring diagrams, and it is so easy to get mislead as to what the functions are... and a lot of is "Reverse Logic".

and, the starter will not work if the Reverse is activated.... period.... how can it?
the starter motor is the power to run the reverse gearing.
 
#38 ·
......
and, the starter will not work if the Reverse is activated.... period.... how can it?
the starter motor is the power to run the reverse gearing.
After dong a bunch of reading it hit me the starter is starting the bike so the reverse cant be stuck on, then then you post the same thing. :smile2:

What you describe is very confusing to me. It is hard to assign a single issue to the symptoms. For instance, the radio mutes. That is controlled by the start switch but the switch should be OK if it starts the bike???? The bike cuts off when not in neutral makes everyone think sidestand switch but you say no??? No reverse light working??? If it were me I think of it this way. What is the easiest way to solve the issue. We know the engine quits when it shouldn't. Lets run through the wiring at the electronic control module and see if there are any issues there. That is...is everything there that should be when it should be. If you can find an anomaly there it might lead us to the root cause as you chase it backwards. I will attach 2 pages. It is pretty self explanatory. You can test the input at the ECM to be sure all is well there. Just say, the test you did on the sidestand switch. It checks out good but must it be? What if there is a break between the switch and the ECM??? Jumping would not be a valid test However if you ground it at the ECM that is valid. Here is the info if you decide to do so.
I am seeing what your saying so starting at the ECM is a good idea.

I don't know if the reverse system is the problem or just a symptom caused by something else. The engine shutting off when you put it in gear does sound like something is wrong with the sidestand switch or its wiring.
I would try following along in those pdf files and make the tests it says for the problem with the reverse. You might sneak up on the trouble that way.
You might want to PM DBohrer to see what he thinks. He is good on these electrical problems and probably has a wiring diagram for the 90 model.
With the side stand switch connected the side stand light comes on and off as the stand is moved from up to down. So I felt it was good, then someone asked if I physically jumped the green & Green whit wires so I removed the side switch and then the side cover and did jump them....

Mike and I were typing at the same time. I would suggest going through those tests at the ECU also. That will check to be sure the ECU is actually getting the signals from each switch or other input.
I'll start at the ECU tomorrow and see whats up unless DBohrer or someone comes up with something
 
#35 ·
What you describe is very confusing to me. It is hard to assign a single issue to the symptoms. For instance, the radio mutes. That is controlled by the start switch but the switch should be OK if it starts the bike???? The bike cuts off when not in neutral makes everyone think sidestand switch but you say no??? No reverse light working??? If it were me I think of it this way. What is the easiest way to solve the issue. We know the engine quits when it shouldn't. Lets run through the wiring at the electronic control module and see if there are any issues there. That is...is everything there that should be when it should be. If you can find an anomaly there it might lead us to the root cause as you chase it backwards. I will attach 2 pages. It is pretty self explanatory. You can test the input at the ECM to be sure all is well there. Just say, the test you did on the sidestand switch. It checks out good but must it be? What if there is a break between the switch and the ECM??? Jumping would not be a valid test However if you ground it at the ECM that is valid. Here is the info if you decide to do so.
 

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#36 ·
I don't know if the reverse system is the problem or just a symptom caused by something else. The engine shutting off when you put it in gear does sound like something is wrong with the sidestand switch or its wiring.
I would try following along in those pdf files and make the tests it says for the problem with the reverse. You might sneak up on the trouble that way.
You might want to PM DBohrer to see what he thinks. He is good on these electrical problems and probably has a wiring diagram for the 90 model.
 
#37 ·
Mike and I were typing at the same time. I would suggest going through those tests at the ECU also. That will check to be sure the ECU is actually getting the signals from each switch or other input.
 
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#39 ·
You will probably end up finding a loose wire connector or diode problem, plastic removal required.

For the reverse lever not feeling right, with engine off and lever up will the machine roll?
 
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