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vtxcandyred 07-22-2011 10:42 PM

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redeyes88 wrote:
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vtxcandyred wrote:
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The original concept of "looking down their noses" at a jap bike came from December Seventh, ninteen forty one, a date which will live in infamy. And it has. The idea of riding a jap bike and not an American built model after the men came back from combat would be unheard of. Remember, the Hells Angels was formed from world war two vets. They served on one or the other of the fronts and saw a lot of really BAD things and brought back their memories and the bikes they rode (Harleys)and that was the start of not ridingthe "rice burners" in the fifties.
I may be wrong but,I don't think we had rice burners in the fifties....
Honda Motor Company started in 1949. First bike was D-Dream type with a 3 h.p. motor. It was a Benly with Honda stamped on the engine.

redeyes88 07-22-2011 10:54 PM

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vtxcandyred wrote:
Quote:

redeyes88 wrote:
Quote:

vtxcandyred wrote:
Quote:

The original concept of "looking down their noses" at a jap bike came from December Seventh, ninteen forty one, a date which will live in infamy. And it has. The idea of riding a jap bike and not an American built model after the men came back from combat would be unheard of. Remember, the Hells Angels was formed from world war two vets. They served on one or the other of the fronts and saw a lot of really BAD things and brought back their memories and the bikes they rode (Harleys)and that was the start of not ridingthe "rice burners" in the fifties.
I may be wrong but,I don't think we had rice burners in the fifties....
Honda Motor Company started in 1949. First bike was D-Dream type with a 3 h.p. motor. It was a Benly with Honda stamped on the engine.
First honda sold in usa in late 1959

JerryH 07-22-2011 11:22 PM

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Ok, I haven't read the entire thread...yet. But I like both Japanese bikes and Harleys. The older Harleys were very unreliable compared to '70s era Japanese bikes, but they are now just as reliable as any bike made. The earliest Japanese bikes imported into the U.S. were even less than the British bikes of the time. But the Japanese learned fast. Unlike Harley and the British manufacturers, they tried to satisfy their customers. I once owned a '66 Triumph Bonneville, which was in pretty good shape for what it was. But the Lucas electrics and Amal concentric carbs were junk, and overall quality was poor. I always had to carry extra cables, because the ends kept breaking off. But despite it's lack of reliability, it was a very fun bike to ride. I also had a 1971 Harley Sportster, another very unreliable bike, and again more an issue with build quality and materials than anything else. If either one of those bikes were built today, using todays modern materials, and manufacturing techniques, with good quality control, I think they would be reliable. The modern Bonneville feels, sounds, and rides nothing like the original. The modern Sportster is close, but doesn't look as good (to me) I would love to have an Ultra Classic, preferably a late '90s EVO powered one with a carb. Not to crazy about EFI, even though my '85 LTD has it. But it is not digital, which is where I draw the line. I am not interested in any vehicle with any kind of digital electronics on it.

One advantage Harleys have over Japanese bikes, is that they are simple to work on, they are designed to be rebuilt over and over again, and there will always be parts available, which makes it possible to make one last virtually forever. It would be nice if the older Goldwings had even 20% of the aftermarket support Harleys do. You can literally build a Harley from the ground up, and not use a single part with an actual HD part number. Love them or hate them, Harleys are different.

While I love the bikes themselves, I do admit finding myself very much turned off by the Harley "scene" or the Harley "culture". I would not want to be considered a "biker" if I rode a Harley. I do hope to someday own a Harley, preferably an Ultra Classic. Now that the market is saturated with Harleys, the prices of good used one have been coming down fast.

The Goldwing is an excellent motorcycle. But IMO, Honda has simply gotten carried away with it. If they had continued to refine the 4 cylinder models, rather than going to the 6 cylinder model, they would have an almost perfect bike now. I think part of the reason Japanese bikes have almost no aftermarket support is that they keep changing them, while Harley has kept the same basic design forever. That and the fact that the Japanese companies don't design their bikes to be infinitely rebuildable. Another problem I have with newer cars. I like (and own) old cars not only because I like them better than new ones, but because they can be easily and cheaply kept going forever, and you don't have to worry about electronics failures. I like actual MACHINES, not computers on wheels.

As for the Harley vs Japanese thing, I suppose it will alay be here, just like the sport bike vs touring bike vs cruiser thing. Just riding a motorcycle is no longer enough, it has to be a certain KIND of motorcycle. I have had a couple of positive encounters with Harley riders while on my Goldwing.

Oh, one more thing about the Harley scene around here. Even that is in two parts now. The riders of the new fuel injected Twin Cam bikes consider themselves superior, and will not associate with the riders of older Harleys. Now isn't that something. I'm about to give up and buy a BMW.

vtxcandyred 07-22-2011 11:56 PM

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JerryH wrote:
Quote:

Ok, I haven't read the entire thread...yet. But I like both Japanese bikes and Harleys. The older Harleys were very unreliable compared to '70s era Japanese bikes, but they are now just as reliable as any bike made. The earliest Japanese bikes imported into the U.S. were even less than the British bikes of the time. But the Japanese learned fast. Unlike Harley and the British manufacturers, they tried to satisfy their customers. I once owned a '66 Triumph Bonneville, which was in pretty good shape for what it was. But the Lucas electrics and Amal concentric carbs were junk, and overall quality was poor. I always had to carry extra cables, because the ends kept breaking off. But despite it's lack of reliability, it was a very fun bike to ride. I also had a 1971 Harley Sportster, another very unreliable bike, and again more an issue with build quality and materials than anything else. If either one of those bikes were built today, using todays modern materials, and manufacturing techniques, with good quality control, I think they would be reliable. The modern Bonneville feels, sounds, and rides nothing like the original. The modern Sportster is close, but doesn't look as good (to me) I would love to have an Ultra Classic, preferably a late '90s EVO powered one with a carb. Not to crazy about EFI, even though my '85 LTD has it. But it is not digital, which is where I draw the line. I am not interested in any vehicle with any kind of digital electronics on it.

One advantage Harleys have over Japanese bikes, is that they are simple to work on, they are designed to be rebuilt over and over again, and there will always be parts available, which makes it possible to make one last virtually forever. It would be nice if the older Goldwings had even 20% of the aftermarket support Harleys do. You can literally build a Harley from the ground up, and not use a single part with an actual HD part number. Love them or hate them, Harleys are different.

While I love the bikes themselves, I do admit finding myself very much turned off by the Harley "scene" or the Harley "culture". I would not want to be considered a "biker" if I rode a Harley. I do hope to someday own a Harley, preferably an Ultra Classic. Now that the market is saturated with Harleys, the prices of good used one have been coming down fast.

The Goldwing is an excellent motorcycle. But IMO, Honda has simply gotten carried away with it. If they had continued to refine the 4 cylinder models, rather than going to the 6 cylinder model, they would have an almost perfect bike now. I think part of the reason Japanese bikes have almost no aftermarket support is that they keep changing them, while Harley has kept the same basic design forever. That and the fact that the Japanese companies don't design their bikes to be infinitely rebuildable. Another problem I have with newer cars. I like (and own) old cars not only because I like them better than new ones, but because they can be easily and cheaply kept going forever, and you don't have to worry about electronics failures. I like actual MACHINES, not computers on wheels.

As for the Harley vs Japanese thing, I suppose it will alay be here, just like the sport bike vs touring bike vs cruiser thing. Just riding a motorcycle is no longer enough, it has to be a certain KIND of motorcycle. I have had a couple of positive encounters with Harley riders while on my Goldwing.

Oh, one more thing about the Harley scene around here. Even that is in two parts now. The riders of the new fuel injected Twin Cam bikes consider themselves superior, and will not associate with the riders of older Harleys. Now isn't that something. I'm about to give up and buy a BMW.

I tend to agree with a lot in your post BUT a Harley will NEVER be a bike you can throw a leg over and ride for hours and days and weeks and years reliably, unless you have no desire to trade it in anytime soon.I ALWAYS hear guys talking about getting a good return on their bike but they only have a few thousand miles on them. I ride the crap out of my bikes. I bought a VTX retro in 02 and had twenty thousand miles on it in two years. In those same two years my nephew bought andtraded inthree Harleys. I don't see the point. If you can't ride it and put miles on it, what’s the sense? Since I've bought two different wings I ride the snot out them now and the X sits more than it used to. It’s my single rider. Mama's not comfortable on it so I take it when I want to cruise around town or run out the river with friends. When I got the X I looked at every bike and visited every dealer around. I read everything I found on a bike. Bought all the magazines when they came out so I could get NEW news. When I finally did buy it was a big deal. I had NEVER bought a brand new vehicle in my life. After comparing everything I found and found out, to buy a Harley with what my bike came with the thirteen thousand I spent would have been well over twenty thousand. More like twenty five. They threw in a Tombstone style windscreen and a backrest. Three hundred and two fifty respectively. But I am sad and upset with the direction they are going with our bikes. You are right about ease of working on a Harley. They did'nt change in fifty years. "NEW FOR 1978 ""GRIPS"!!!! That was a big deal back then.

JerryH 07-23-2011 01:09 AM

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If I ever get a Harley, my intention WILL be to keep it indefinitely, probably for the rest of my life. I am hoping my Goldwing has a lot of miles in it, but it will not last forever, and 4 cylinder parts are already scarce. Even used ones. I also rack up a lot of miles, usually about 15,000 a year, would be a lot more if I had the time, plus summer around here is way to hot to ride safely. I bought a new '93 Vulcan 750 in '92, and had nearly 83,000 miles on it when I traded it in on a new KLR650 in '01. Me and the KLR did not get along, so I traded it in on a new '02 Vulcan 750, which I now have 67,000 miles on. But, I also have 5 other bikes to ride. For a long distance ride, The Vulcan 750 would still be my choice, it has proven to be reliable, all the miles on it are mine, and it has been seriously overmaintained. And believe it or not, it is just as comfortable as the Goldwing. In fact, the footpeg position is more comfortable, as the pegs are mounted a few inches farther forward, where the engine gets in the way on the GW. I have done 2 Ironbutt Saddlesore 1000s on it, and while I was tired, discomfort was minimal. For comfort and long distance, this bike is light years ahead of a Sportster 883. Of course you cannot carry as much as a Goldwing. I am hoping to get the Goldwing to the point where I can trust it on longer trips. I now wish I had bought fewer cheaper bikes, and bought a new Goldwing or two. But now the cost of a new one is WAY out of my reach. I am reaching the age (52) where a Goldwing makes sense for me, but I'm afraid I'll always be stuck with used ones.

WingerDave 07-25-2011 02:47 AM

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Sonny Barger, (you know) said that Harleys were never "the Bike" for Hell's Angels per se.

In fact he also said he'd rather ride a ST1100

Read his biography



Dave.

JerryH 07-25-2011 03:29 AM

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I have met Sonny Barger. He now has a Victory Vision. And I did read his book. But Hells Angels have always ridden Harleys. However, I HAVE noticed that Harley riders don't have the same attitude about British bikes as they do about Japanese bikes, so there maybe something to that WWII thing. I have never owned a Japanese car, and never will. I will also never own a post '79 American car. I like the old non computerized stuff. But while I would never own a Japanese car, and prefer American, I would have no problem owning an older European car. I have owned 3 old VW bugs and one old Mercedes, all built in Germany, and they were on the wrong side in WWII as well.

I guess I have always (I'm 52) seen Japanese stuff as "copies", and I still have a big problem with their "Harley copies" They have also copied British bikes and Ducati. The Goldwing is a uniquely Japanese design, and is not a copy of anything else. I also loved the UJM air cooled inline fours.

WingerDave 07-25-2011 04:17 AM

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JerryH wrote:
Quote:

The Goldwing is a uniquely Japanese design, and is not a copy of anything else. I also loved the UJM air cooled inline fours.

Yamaha, Porsche, BMW all rolled into one.....

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11503274/13581_preview.jpg



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11503274/13582_preview.jpg


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11503274/13583_preview.jpg


The 1972 Prototype Goldwing (1500cc flat six)



Dave.

Pawing 07-25-2011 11:38 AM

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My wife and I attended her class of 76 reunion event this weekend and we took my 79 Wing. At the reunion *picnic* one of her classmates with his many HD related tats rode in on a newer Harley full dresser and parked next to my Goldwing. I do not know HD so I can not say what model, I just know it was big and a bagger. Since I knew him I said hello, commented that he was still riding HD, that he had a great looking bike and he ignored me like I had the plague all day. While the picnic was going on I had many approach me asking about the Wing while ignoring the Harley. When the event was coming to a close and I was packing up I noticed a guy was coming towards the two bikes and me at a brisk pace. I thought here we go again about the Riding Rice is bad thing. He just wanted to ask me the year and asked many questions about the Wing. * drove his BWM due it being so hot and his wife needed the car’s air conditioning* and he was in the process of doing a full restoration on a 76 Kawasaki. He thought I could help him with some problems finding parts. This was how it went all day with what year it was and how great the old girl looked. Even the guy that drove in a 70 Dodge Challenger RT 440 stopped to tell me how good it is to see an older bike still around and being used. The HD guy just watched and no one asked about his ride. I did feel sorry for him because his was sharp, newer, obviously expensive and he was just as proud of it. Perhaps if he wouldn’t have been bragging all day about how much money, how tough he was so he bought the best bike available. Some of HD guys are doing it to themselves with their arrogance in that just because it is American Made and expensive does not necessarily make it the best.

Such is the Magic of the Goldwing!

Cousin Jack 07-25-2011 01:39 PM

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I must be doing something wrong; I was thinking just a day or so ago about how the animosity between HD riders and "Rice" riders seems to be lessening. For the last few years, we've received nothing but respect from HD riders, and no overt hostility at all. At the very most, they may ignore us, which is their right. Sometimes when encountering Harlies, they'll be less inclined to wave than "Ricers," but again, that's their right.

I may be misreading the current state of relations because we are not "pack riders," don't hang out at Harley events, and we don't drink so we're never at biker bars. But for the most part, we've never felt uncomfortable, at least recently.

Sonny Barger would prefer an ST1100? Now there's something I never knew! Well, we agree.... I still feel my ST1300 is the best bike I've ever ridden.....


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