| HID system on GoldWing | Rate Topic |
| Moderators: redbaron, MDKramer, Flyone, AZgl1500 | Page: 1 2 3   |
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Author | Post |
| Posted: Mon Apr 17th, 2006 11:15 am | 1st Post |
|
|
Hi, I just signed in this forum and this is my first post. But, not new to GLs. Here is a bit about me. Have had GLs since they were first released. 1000.1000LTD,1100 Int., 1200 Int., and Jan 1991, I imported a New and the first and only GL1500SE, pearl white, to land of OZ and with full blessing and original paper work form Honda Australia. So, mine is THE ONLY imported yet fully registered with original compliance plate down under. Then started importing anything and everything you could, as accessories for her to a tune of almost equal Dollar value as the bike her self. Couple of years ago had nothing to do so I pulled out the engine and as far as I have been told by Honda OZ, I am the only one ever having done so down under. Now to the reason for this post: I have a set of decent driving lights which is used by aeroplanes. But, the original headlight is not the best even with 130/90W bulbs. So, I have been looking at REAL HID systems for her. Any ideas if there are any available out there? Has anyone tried them on and do they give a proper beam pattern without the usual glare you get from most kits?
____________________ Have fun, Drive safe and enjoy your ride. GL1500SE |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Mon Apr 17th, 2006 06:50 pm | 2nd Post |
|
|
Welcome to the forum. I've seen the HID's on a couple of GL1800's. Can't say that the extra light output was worth all that extra money though. A set of high output bulbs 55/60watts that throw out up to 40% extra light for no extra heat or consumption might be worth a try first. Phillips and Sylvana and others make these.
____________________ Lucky Eddie. |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Tue Apr 18th, 2006 05:50 am | 3rd Post |
|
|
GWEddie wrote: Welcome to the forum. I've seen the HID's on a couple of GL1800's. Can't say that the extra light output was worth all that extra money though. A set of high output bulbs 55/60watts that throw out up to 40% extra light for no extra heat or consumption might be worth a try first. Phillips and Sylvana and others make these."Thanks for your welcome and your kind comments. ….55/60watts that throw out up to 40% extra light for no extra heat…... If you read my post I have used 130/90W and they are in NO WAY a match for a READ HID Xenon System. It sounds like you are referring to the so called HID Halogen Bulbs which are nothing more than painted Halogen bulbs or have a bit of Xenon gas injected in them with a real HID Xenon system with Xenon bulb , ballast igniter etc. If you do a bit of research on this subject you will find that a REAL HID system (not the cheap imported ones from Taiwan, China etc.) give 300% more light than ANY Halogen bulb. The light emitted from a 4300 Kelvin/ 3200 Lumen bulb is as close as you can get to a daylight and I don’t mean any of these aftermarket junk sold that claim higher Kelvin is a stronger light. The higher up the Kelvin scale you go the darker it get. You get blue and purple colour but that is all. A HID system uses ONLY 35Watts so even comparing it with what you have suggested 55/60Watt it uses less Watts. It is also much cooler in temperature than a Halogen. So using a REAL HID System on a bike would be ideal since the battery and alternator of a bike (even a GL) is much smaller than that of a car. If any of the GL1800s you saw had a real HID Xenon System you would have noticed it immediately. First of all if they have managed to install it properly, you have a VERY SHARP cutoff line above the beam pattern. You can’t miss that it is like someone took a Stanley knife and cut a straight line and any light above the cutoff line was removed. Therefore you can raise you Low beam very high up without blinding oncoming traffic and therefore see much longer on the road in front of you. Then you have the pure WHITE light in front of the bike which looks like a sea of daylight. It is for these and many other reasons that most new bikes are equipped with REAL HID Xenon Projector Systems and majority of cars have had themf for many years now. Comparing any Halogen bulb, be it painted blue or not to a REAL HID Xenon bulb they look like holding a candle in front of the Sun. Halogen also looks very yellowish. On my new Suzuki Hyabusa, I have a Hi beam Xenon Projector. On both my and my wife’s cars I have HID Bi-Xenon Projectors, one as standard OEM and one I retrofitted myself. Which was alot of fun. So, now it is time for my GL to enter the era of REAL LIGHT. So, if anyone has installed a REAL HID Xenon System (ballast, igniter, Xenon bulb) on their GL’s original reflectors please let me know and pics would be highly appreciated. If you did a retro and have either Xenon or Bi-Xenon Projectors , that will do also. If , there is no one that has done it, then watch this forum for my post in a few weeks time.
____________________ Have fun, Drive safe and enjoy your ride. GL1500SE |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 06:55 am | 4th Post |
|
|
Here is a animation showing the difference between a Halogen and Xenon bulb. As you can see it is like day and night. Since I have not yet heard from anyone, I have to presume that no one has managed to install a Proper HID Xenon System on their GL. Which means that it fall on my shoulders to do the hard yakka. One of the main issues that needs to be carefully looked at is the focal point of the reflector which is built for a Halogen bulb vs. the focal point that is different on a Xenon bulb. There are 2 options: 1- Calculated and find the focal point of the reflectors used in the headlight assy. Then manufacture necessary shields, nosecone etc. to convert and match the Xenon focal point and the light beam emitted from it in the reflectors to prevent glare and obtain a legal beam pattern. 2- Retrofit one or 2 Bi-Xenon Projectors in the headlight assy. Which is obviously going to be difficult since there is not enough depth in the headlight assy. and the front of the fairing. So this is going to be my last option. Doing a retro on my car was easier that this is going to be. Since Xenon bulbs don't have any filaments they last more or less the life of the bike. Attachment: Xenon_halogen_Animation.gif (Downloaded 1047 times)
____________________ Have fun, Drive safe and enjoy your ride. GL1500SE |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 07:58 am | 5th Post |
|
|
I look forward to hearing of your experience of fitting these , but I sure don't want to be infront of you, or driving towards you on a dark night, man, do the cars that have those things fitted blind me. I travelled in a new Landrover Discovery recently with them fitted and I was impressed with the directional system which steers the beam into corners. I thought it would be a bit of a gimmick, but they really improved visibility. They are awful to have in the rear view mirrors though, even on low beam they blind me.
____________________ Pete http://www.rblr.co.uk '06 GL1800 '77 GL1000 Executive |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 08:57 am | 6th Post |
|
|
A proper HID system has a so called cutoff which means that if you manage to find the correct focal point and can harness the beam emitted from your Xenon bulb to the correct points in the reflector, OR, (even better) if you have a Projector, there should not be ANY light above the cutoff line. It is as if someone cut the light above this line and replaced it with darkness. Therefore you can raise your beam pattern much higher than a Halogen bulb and therefore can see much more of what is in front of you, especially on the sides of the road. A much longer and wider beam spread. UNFORTUNATELY, Many vehicle owners, specially the Modders who go more for looks than function, buy a cheap worthless kit from eBay of the Net and install it in their Halogen Reflectors, which originally were designed and built for a Halogen bulb, thinking that is all they have to do. BUT, in their excitement for being a proud owner of a HID Kit, they forget or in 99,99% can’t and don’t understand the basics of what needs to be done in order to have a proper beam pattern. Therefore you see all these dummies on the road with massive headlight Glare, not only blinding oncoming traffic, but being cause to many accidents on the roads. All of this because Xenon bulbs can emit a blue to purple light that LOOKS COOL. If you are in front of a BMW, Volvo, MB, Audi,…… or any other vehicle including bikes that have Xenon fitted as OEM, you will notice that not only do their Lo beam NOT bother you. But you will probably be grateful to them for being behind you, because now you also can see the road. If you are the oncoming traffic looking at one of these vehicles, you will not even notice that the car approaching you has their lights on. The first thing you notice when they approach you (if they got Projectors) is how small their headlights are. Then as soon as the hit a bump on the road you see the colour change from Pure White to bluish and purplish tint. And yes, the AFL (Adaptive Forward Lighting = adjusting up /down) and ALS (Active Light System=Adjusting sideways i.e. cornering light) DRA (Dynamic Range Adjustment) and few other new systems that has recently been released in the market are going to help everyone to SEE better and further what is on the road. Having retrofitted the New Bi-Xenon System (Which I promise, it was borrowed from the New VW Touareg V10) on my car was probably the single most effective safety feature I could ever have had added to it. Also being a one off and the first feels really good. But mostly I can see without having to use my Hi beam or My Driving lights. Here is a pic of the awesome cutoff you will have with a proper adjusted HID Xenon System. Do you see how sharp the cutoff of a properly adjusted system can be? How can you blind anyone with a perfect system like this? There is NO WAY. That is probably why every OEM manufacturer is going for HID Xenon Systems on their vehicles. AND, let me tell you one thing Honda has THE Best Bi-Xenon Projectors in the market, followed by The French company Valeo, then come Bosch and Hella. Attachment: Image3.jpg (Downloaded 527 times)
____________________ Have fun, Drive safe and enjoy your ride. GL1500SE |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 11:36 am | 7th Post |
|
|
GL1500SE wrote: Hi, GL1500SE, Harley Davidson offers an HID kit for the newer HD's (it's in their newest 06 catalog).. I was looking into that kit for one of my dressers but got sidetracked with another project.. (not sure that kit will project the beam to the correct side of the road for your country though).. Not even sure if it could be cobbled into your 1500.. A proper (premium) reflectored clear halogen light will do about as good though (just uses slightly more power).. The secret is in the correct light reflector & clear lens.. Again Harley sells a great clear lens 55/60 reflector in both a 5" & 7" headlight that produces a great (very usable) beam.. I have updated all my Harley's to their 05/06 clear lens light system.. That 05/06 Harley light is also offered in both a L/H & R/H beam patterns for countries with "drive left" road patterns.. The 05/06 clear lens headlight (alone) will allow sustained driving at 70+ mph on twisty back roads & when supplemented with a pair of 35 watt floods will allow much faster speeds on the back roads at night.. The problem with the original Honda lighting is not so much in the candlepower (as you found out even increasing the wattage didn't help).. It is in the light dispersion & amount of lums that the fluted poorly designed lens disperses to the wrong places & won't allow to pass to the correct locations.. If you have a Harley dealer near you go ride one of their newer clear lens Halogen lighted bikes at night.. I'm betting you will as impressed as I was in the amount of USABLE light coming out the front of those bikes.. Another thing to look at is voltage to your existing head light.. On my personal 1200 I measured less than 12 volts to the headlight cruising down the road with 15 volts at the battery.. Adding a relay in the headlight circuit with direct battery connection upped the headlight voltage to close to 14.9 cruising down the road. Twisty
____________________ Only a motorcyclist knows why a dog rides with his head out the window! |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 12:43 pm | 8th Post |
|
|
those cars that came stock with HID, do blind. Road surfaces are not perfect. And if these cars hit a bump or go up or down a hill; it is a lot more blinding then someone with their high beams on. Last edited on Thu Apr 20th, 2006 12:43 pm by oldschoolgoldwing |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 01:07 pm | 9th Post |
|
|
oldschoolgoldwing wrote: those cars that came stock with HID, do blind. Road surfaces are not perfect. And if these cars hit a bump or go up or down a hill; it is a lot more blinding then someone with their high beams on. I was beginning to think it might just be me, but I can assure GL1500SE that the cars that I suffer uncomfortable light levels from, are the likes of BMWs not the boy racer types. Perhaps all the cars with these lights are driving around either on high beam, or with mal adjusted lights, though I doubt it , since it is all of them that I have encountered. My friend with the Discovery, admitted that he and his wife did not like driving infront of their own vehicle, for the blinding reason. I have probably only discussed this type of light with two or three people, but the conversations have always revolved around how blinding they are for other road users. Perhaps you come from an area with no hills GL1500SE, but I come from an area, where it happens often to come to the brow of a hill, and be blinded by these lights, as well as the morons who think they don't need to dip their lights until it is too late.
____________________ Pete http://www.rblr.co.uk '06 GL1800 '77 GL1000 Executive |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 03:02 pm | 10th Post |
|
|
twisty wroteGL1500SE, Harley Davidson offers an HID kit for the newer HD's (it's in their newest 06 catalog).. I was looking into that kit for one of my dressers but got sidetracked with another project.. (not sure that kit will project the beam to the correct side of the road for your country though).. Not even sure if it could be cobbled into your 1500..First of all finally I am getting sign of life from members of the forum. For a minute I was about to give up on any response. So, Thanks guys for starting the ball rolling. I have been studying all the latest type of lighting used on different types of vehicles. From the so called High Intensity Halogen bulbs that are presumably increasing light by anything from 30-75%, to HID Xenon Kit, to HID Reflectors, to HID Xenon and Bi-Xenon Projectors and the latest fad LEDs. I have looked at Harleys new headlights, YES they are available even here down under. As you probably know most reflectors today are made of Plastic. That is why manufacturers (Bosch, Hella, Valeo, GM etc. etc.) recommend use of only 55/60 MAX Halogen bulbs. One of the major reasons in the amount of heat produced by a Halogen and the fact that everything including the front lens is made of plastic. So by using higher Wattage bulb not only will you burn the reflector at the base of it but will fry the connector and the wiring in your vehicle. All new technology we have are based on trail and error. Especially as you have seen the Automotive industry has a very poor record when it comes to the number of errors. For a while, they decided that the best thing to use would be a so called multi mirror reflector. This to save space and to get a wider beam spread. Then there was a clear reflector with a perforated/ patterned glass, which turned out to be very expensive to manufacture. The idea of clear glass reflectors has been there since man started their quest in finding the BEST lighting source. I have now taken apart the 1500s headlight and separated the lens from the reflector. It is a very simple design however, highly effective and far superior to most of the multi mirror ones available in the market right now. When it comes to it’s ability to reflect light. I have spend few hours now in our Studio, which is closed to public prototype workshop in the automotive industry and run several test on the reflector unit of the GL. The problem with the poor beam spread of GL reflector is not due to a poor design of the reflector. It is the lack of Lumens and the poor light colour emitted from a Halogen bulb. Which is in the Yellow region of the light scale. Not even painting the bulb either from inside or outside nor adding precious gases like Xenon will do much to increase the amount of light emitted from a Halogen to climb up the white scale. My next door neighbour owns the HD spare parts business here in Perth. After having read your post earlier today, I asked him to take a couple of The New Harley headlight reflectors with him to our studio before he went home. During the next few days, I will be examining different type of reflectors in the GL headlight assy. I have already cut out a HID reflector from a Lincoln Navigator and a Lexus RX 300. We will be Testing all different options including the Harley one, with a clear glass. I will come back with the results on Monday or so. In order to have a bit of clarity and facts, here is the Lumen emitted from all Halogen and Xenon bulbs in the market. According to the Bosch/SAE Automotive Handbook (4th Ed.) the following is a list of bulbs, wattage and output at 12V: Type of bulb Wattage Luminous Flux (lm) Halogen H1 55 1550 H2 55 1800 H3 55 1450 H4 (9003 High/Low) 60/55 1650/1000 H7 (13.2V) 55 1500 H8 (12.8V) 35 700 H9 (12.8V) 65 1870 H11 (12.8V) 55 1200 HB1 (9004 High/Low) 65/45 1200/700 HB4 (9006) 55 1100 HB3 (9005) 65 1900 HB5 (9007 High/Low) 65/55 1350/1000 HIDXenon D1S ~35 3200 D2S ~35 3200 D2R ~35 2800 D4S ~35 3800 As you notice NO Halogen comes even close to weakest HID Xenon bulb. which is the D2R. As I mentioned earlier a HID Xenon bulb emits almost 300% more light than any Halogen. The ballast driving the arc in the bulb requires between 2-4 Amps and can easily function in full capacity at approx.12V. Then there is the difference in life span of a Xenon bulb VS. Halogen. Halogen has a filament which is easily damaged every time you hit a bump on the road. HID Xenon has none. Some OEM manufacturers warranty a properly installed HID Xenon bulb for the life time of the Vehicle. Save you heaps of money. By the way above mentioned figures are with a 35W, 85V ballast. There is a 50W, 85V one also. But that is mainly for rally and racing. Your visibility in dark has very little to do with what speed you are driving at. You can have 1000W Driving lights in front of your vehicle and not enough beam spread in the correct spot on the road. The evenness of the beam spread not having any HOT or COLD spots on the road, the Colour of the light (how white it is), the width and length of the beam spread, the condition of the driver and his sight, the condition of the road, reflection of the light from the road etc.etc.……. Have far more importance than if you can ride at a certain speed But it is a very good sales gimmick. Stay tuned for the results.
____________________ Have fun, Drive safe and enjoy your ride. GL1500SE |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 03:34 pm | 11th Post |
|
|
Sorry to disappoint you both (Silverfox & oldschoolgoldwing) but I live in a suburb called Gooseberry Hill. So that out of the way, I think it would be a good idea if you just for the fun of it visited a couple of HID forums and see what goes on there. Every one is tweaking their HID Projectors to get the MAGICAL Blue/Purple colours. To dazzle oncoming traffic by showing off that they also have one and can afford The Blue Light. Maybe it is a boyhood dream : When I grow up I want to become a Police….. or something like that. And believe you me, they are just waiting for you to flash your Hi beam so they can flash you back and brag about the awesome Hi beam Power they got at their disposal. Don’t you fall for that. Unless you got a pair of Driving lights like mine that come from an aeroplane. That stops them in their tracks. The first couple of years OEM guys had "fixed" HID Xenon Projectors. But as the technology evolved they now have more and more vehicles with Self Adjusting beam pattern. So in a very short future you should not be able to see when a car hits a road bump. Which in my mind is not so very good at all. If I am the oncoming traffic and see the car coming towards me hit a bump on the road, I immediately slow down. But if I can’t see the movement in the light form the oncoming car, I would be speeding on as usual and then all of a sudden I do a San Francisco movie Jump. If you read my post you will see that time after time and again I have said: A PROPERLY ADJUSTED HID Xenon System……. So, A PROPERLY Adjusted HID Xenon System should not blind anyone above the cutoff line. Under that if you are short enough you'r zapped. Now where you choose to have your cutoff line and how high you adjust your headlights is a different story. By the way most of these headlight units have only one projector and even if they have 2, the second one is just a Halogen H7 bulb in a projector. Just for the looks. The Hi beam is mostly a normal H7 reflector. So that is why their Projector beams are stronger than their HI beam. You see one of the problems with HID Xenon bulbs is they don’t like to be turned on/off very often and quickly. So you can’t use a Xenon bulb for flashing Hi beam for example. The reason is the ballast. It converts 12VDC to 85VAC. Every time you turn it on, Especially the first time when it is cold. To create the arc in the bulb the ballast releases 21000-25000 Volt and sucks up to 21Amps. But, just for a fraction of a second. Then it immediately drops down to 85V and 2Amps. Humming or Buzzing away. So let’s see the result of my test in a few days time.
____________________ Have fun, Drive safe and enjoy your ride. GL1500SE |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 05:05 pm | 12th Post |
|
|
GL1500SE wrote:
____________________ Pete http://www.rblr.co.uk '06 GL1800 '77 GL1000 Executive |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 06:10 pm | 13th Post |
|
|
GL1500Se, My last post was typed up and sent before I received your response. I would like to say, that I see you appreciate the bad result of the use of these lights, as owners seem to wish to adjust them to knowingly blind other drivers. I also thank you for explaining that development is still beavering away and that future versions may be able to prevent this dangerous practice.
____________________ Pete http://www.rblr.co.uk '06 GL1800 '77 GL1000 Executive |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Fri Apr 21st, 2006 03:29 am | 14th Post |
|
|
Silverfox wrote: GL1500Se, My last post was typed up and sent before I received your response. I would like to say, that I see you appreciate the bad result of the use of these lights, as owners seem to wish to adjust them to knowingly blind other drivers.I realised reading your first post that you must have sent it whilst I was typing the second part. But, When I said it saves you money. I was not referring to the cost of the units. I was referring to the total cost of avoiding certain type of accidents of the road. Everyday we hear about this cancer, that disease, this food that cigarette etc. that is killing so many people every year and what the scientific community is doing to solve the problem. However, THE Biggest killer of them all , Our Vehicles, is left as a acceptable evil. Soon you will have accident free cars. Cars that think on their own. Just imagine the day this happens and someone will probably look back at ALL these millions of people that were killed, maimed and lamed during all these years and no one did anything faster to fix the problem. Unfortunately, The problem was NEVER with the vehicle. It was with us. The designers, The Manufacturers, The Drivers, The Law Makers etc… I promise you that even when the accident free car is released. You will still see some idiot that managed to have an accident. One of the major causes of road accident at night time is eye fatigue. Eye fatigue is due to lack of light emitted on the road by poor quality headlight bulbs, reflectors and assys. BUT, too much light emitted on the road is also a major cause for fatigue. One , because of the stronger the light is the more it reflects back into the dirver’s eyes. Secondly, the hot spots created on the road in front of the driver, focuses the driver’s eyes on the hot spot, “blinding” him form being able to see anything in the darker regions of his vision. Like looking at someone welding. You get those black spots in your eyes for few minutes after having looked at it. Imagine driving for say 3-5 hours with this phenomenon in front of your eyes. Not only does the eye fatigue kick in but also you are as good as a visually impaired person. Regarding Human Judgement. Well we all have seen the results of that for all the past 5-6000 years. Not much to be proud of. I totally agree with you 1000% NO Accident EVER happens by itself. There is always a HUMAN with Human Judgement behind it. It is like people blame their shortcoming on the COMPUTER. And as you have noticed, despite ALL the laws we have to restrict us from doing the wrong things in life. Everyone of us brakes few of them every day. Some have a habit of challenging themselves to brake as many as they can in a day to get a kick out of it. BUT, if we try to eliminate some of them, life may be a bit safer and easier on some of us. The introduction of HID Xenon System is a step towards eliminating some of the accidents caused by poor lighting on vehicles. Today, there is hardly one Manufacturer that has not at least one of vehicle, be it car, motorcycle or truck that is equipped with a HID Xenon System. Some Makes have HID Xenon as Standard on their vehicles. To name few: Mercedes, BMW, AUDI, VW, Citroen, Peugeot, Honda, Ford, GM (Holden,Opel….), Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Pontiac, Hyundai, Jaguar, Kia, Land/Range Rover, Lexus, Mitsubishi, Lancia, Renault, SAAB, Volvo, Subaru…… JUST TO NAME A FEW. Oppps it looks like most of them have got it. Volga and Moskowitch are exempt. Honda is as usual the forerunner in this field and has the BEST Projectors which is the First and in some cases the ONLY choice for retrofitters worldwide. Soon you will not be able to find any cars with the traditional Halogen in an outdated reflector anymore. LED and Fibre Optics is the future of Automotive lighting systems. All this gadgets and gizmos are there to make life safer and easier. Also to put amateur Mechanics with a BIG ego, but very little knowledge to back it up, out of business. The fact that some manufacturers warranty their Xenon bulbs for the life time of the vehicle is mainly to make sure that you don’t need to change a bulb anymore or that whilst driving at night in a dark patch of road, your bulb decides to give up and dies on you. That is why the future is in LEDs and Fibre Optics. And to tell you the truth, we may have a 100% safe and accident free vehicle that defies gravity in future to move us from A to B, by just thinking of where we want to go. But, when you walk out of your house a brick falls down on your head and guess what you still die. Meanwhile, we have to try to fix things to the best of our knowledge and ability to reduce unnecessary accident. Now, I am sure that not everyone will abide by this thought and there will always be someone who thinks they know better or just want to show off or whatever, human nature, and muck things up for rest of us. On behalf of all the idiots, selfish son of (Insert you choice of word) I apologies for their bad behaviour on the roads. At least you and I can start making a difference??? Attachment: 001.jpg (Downloaded 149 times)
____________________ Have fun, Drive safe and enjoy your ride. GL1500SE |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Fri Apr 21st, 2006 04:50 am | 15th Post |
|
|
have you seen this kit?http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/US/HID-Headlight-Conversion-Kit-p-18322.htmli have been thinking about it for my 79, but only after i get the basics done..
____________________ 1979 1000 nekkid |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Fri Apr 21st, 2006 06:00 am | 16th Post |
|
|
sanfelice wrote: have you seen this kit?http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/US/HID-Headlight-Conversion-Kit-p-18322.htmli have been thinking about it for my 79, but only after i get the basics done.."Ahhhh, one of those Aftermarket Kits  .The main reason for all the glare and headache everyone is having on the roads. Also, very expensive since you can buy a kit for a car with 2 of these single units for around USD200.00-220.00 on eBay. The problem with these kits are they are not tuned for any specific headlight reflector. They are built to suit all different types of reflectors and headlight assys. One size fits all. It would have worked fine if all vehicles had used the same reflector and headlight assy. AND this kit was specifically made and tuned to match that one and only headlight reflector. So silly of these guys to think that it will work. Whilst I was doing the Bi-Xenon Projector retrofitting on my car, I joined a thread that so far has had 12700 visits and 566 post. I have helped and advised 15 guys directly, that I know of, to rebuild their aftermarket HID kits to suit their specific headlight reflectors and ALL of them has had the same problem. GLARE Galore. Without rebuilding, redesigning the shield, the nosecone and finding the focal point of the reflector in question and trying to match the Xenon bulbs arc to that focal point and redirecting the light emitted from the opening of the shield in the correct corners of the reflector etc. etc. and so on. YOU CAN NOT FIT A HID XENON KIT IN A REFLECTOR MADE FOR HALOGEN. That is a NO NO. Don’t even waste your time or money on these kits. You will only regret it later. Someone may even stop you on the road and punch you in the face for having blinded them and almost causing and accident with your headlight. Then there is the poor quality used by these aftermarket manufacturers. They don’t have either the funds, knowledge, capacity, tools or the equipment required to do proper testing of their products. If you ever decide to buy a HID Xenon System buy ONLY from Hella, Bosch, Valeo, GM, Osram and the likes. The pic I posted as a bad example of a poorly adjusted HID Xenon System above is one of these kits. But now after few days of redesigning and fixing the kit, it is 98% OK.
____________________ Have fun, Drive safe and enjoy your ride. GL1500SE |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Sat Apr 22nd, 2006 03:41 am | 17th Post |
|
|
twisty wrote: GL1500SE , Harley Davidson offers an HID kit for the newer HD's (it's in their newest 06 catalog).. I was looking into that kit for one of my dressers but got sidetracked with another project.. (not sure that kit will project the beam to the correct side of the road for your country though).. Not even sure if it could be cobbled into your 1500.. …… Twisty” Hi Twisty, Well I spent all yesterday and all this morning with the New Multi Mirror Clear Glass reflector and the New Xenon Gas filled bulb (which as I mentioned earlier is nothing more than a glorified Halogen bulb full of GAS) sold by Harley. Sad to say, neither I nor even my neighbour who sells Harley Parts in Perth were impressed at all. Having seen it’s out put I can see that even Harley thought there is a very good reason to market the HID reflector kit. Compare to a standard Halogen and the worthless reflectors they used before, this one is VERY GOOD. Their HID reflector kit is OK, not the best but will do for a Harley. However, with those EXHUBERANT prices they are asking for a kit, you either have to rob a Bank, Find a Gold mine or take a second and maybe a third mortgage on your house to buy one. All of the stuff they use in the kit is not worth more than $150.00 to MAX 250.00. If you buy them as spare parts form some car parts retailer. AND, I can promise you that you can find a far better designed reflector with greater out put than their HID dual bulb reflector. It just looks cool. Anywhoha, I tried the new Harley reflector (not the HID one) in the GL headlight assy. Later on today and tomorrow, I will be looking at the original GLs reflector and try to manufacture a shield and nosecone to match the reflector to get the best cut-off humanly possible. I will post some pics of the end results. By the way here is another useless information I learnt from my very proud neighbour: Perth has the most number of Harleys per capita in the world.
____________________ Have fun, Drive safe and enjoy your ride. GL1500SE |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Tue Apr 25th, 2006 05:21 am | 18th Post |
|
|
Well, it is finally finished and done. Before we start here is a chart showing different colour of light in Kelvin. Notice the difference in the colour of Halogen and HID Xenon.  Please notice that the figures mentioned in this chart are in K (Kelvin) which is a measure on the colour of the light. NOT it's intensity which is measured in Lumen Flux. As I mentioned earlier, installing a different type of bulb requires that you tune and adjust the light emitted from that type of bulb to correspond with the reflectors focal point and other characteristics. Otherwise it would be like trying to fit a H1 bulb in a reflector designed for H4. You get light but it is all over the place. The combination creates Glare but also you do not and can not create a proper, legal and acceptable beam pattern. Which all means, that you blind oncoming traffic and since you don’t have a proper beam pattern you can’t see what is in front of you properly either. In order to achieve a proper solution there are several way you can approach the problem. The best and easiest way is to block the unnecessary light that is emitted from the bulb and reflected by the reflector in the wrong places and wrong directions. Comparing a H4 bulb with a HID Xenon is the first issue on the agenda. A Halogen bulb has several shields built in the bulb, which to the untrained eye just does not make any sense. First of all there is the location of the filaments. Then there are the shields. One under the Lo filament (The one in front – furthest from the base) then there is the shield on the tip of the bulb (The painted nose bit) Which is really a mirror from the inside reflecting back the light that is emitted directly forward. The light that is going to be blinding the oncoming traffic.  A HID Xenon bulb has no filament and no shields. The location of the ARC, which is where the light is created by a high voltage discharge is 27.1 mm from the base up and not in the same position as the filament of a H4.  Side by side here is how they differ:  Then there is the fact that a REAL HID Xenon (D2S) has a round base with no “arms” like H4. So the first task at hand is to first create a base so that the bulb can be seated in the reflector housing. The second task is to add a shield that blocks light on the under side of the HID Xenon bulb (where the return wire is). This shield should have an opening in the front part to correspond with the upper reflector which reflects the light emitted from the bulb downwards towards the road and also allow for enough light to be emitted to the side of the road so you can see signs and pedestrians etc. OK, and here is probably the BIGGEST and most difficult task to preform, which is to find, design and build a nosecone. A nosecone not only blocks all the light that is emitted forward but it also makes sure that light is emitted to right corner or location in the reflector so it can create a proper and acceptable beam pattern with a perfect cut-off line. A cut-off line is both on the sides and the top of the beam pattern.  All this is to block all possible unwanted light that is emitted from the reflector so you can see as much as possible without blinding on coming traffic. Well, the result of past few days hard work speaks for itself. My first reaction was WOW. WOW. And another 100 WOWs. I installed only 1 HID Xenon set in the left reflector of the GLs headlight assy. The reason was that we fitted the Harley’s new reflector in the right hand reflector. So we could compare them both. Well as you see the right side is nowhere close to the left side. That is because a Halogen (and it does not matter what you do with it) can never have the out put a HID Xenon has. First of all it still runs on 12-15 Volts. It still relies on the filament made out of tungsten to warm up and mix with the gas in the bulb. And it does not matter if you fill the bulb with Xenon gas or not. A Halogen is and will always remain a Halogen. The colour of a Halogen bulb (even the so called Xenon version of a Halogen bulb) is still Yellowish. More yellow in standard Halogen bulbs than the so called Xenon bulbs. A HID Xenon on the other hand has a ballast and igniter that runs on 12V DC which is inverted to 85Volt AC to create a discharge. Like the ignition on the bike. Now to the important issue: THE results:  As you can see on the picture above there is a bit of difference (just a little bit) between the light on the Left and on the Right side of the picture. Later on I will be taking some pictures of the beam pattern at a distance and also pictures of the cut-off, both on the side of the road and in front of the bike. Can’t wait for another long night ride.
____________________ Have fun, Drive safe and enjoy your ride. GL1500SE |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Fri May 5th, 2006 04:01 am | 19th Post |
|
|
Hi There, Well, its been 2.5ish weeks since the last post to this topic, but I hope its not dead! These lights have the possibility to really get some light out the front of the bike with out having to burn out alternators or batteries! GL1500SE, any further photos (as promised) of the light pattern available? Also, I am not sure I totally understand what you have done....... 1. Used the stock light lens/reflector. 2. Made a base for the new bulb to be held in the old lamps place. 3. Made a cover for the new bulb to cut off all extra light (wont it get hot?) 4. Fitted the black box to drive the lamp. (what is it, how big and how does it wire in?) 5. Spent a bit of time with the new cover/lamp in the orignal reflector/lens to get the pattern you wanted (how did you know you had it right?) 6. Went for a ride. I have an '82 GL1100, it has a single glass lens with metal reflector headlight. Its an H4 with a 60/80 globe. I ride with the light on high all the time. I hardly ever get flashed to dip as I am very careful to keep it tilted down. I would like to consider replacing the high/low H4 lamp for a single HID lamp. Am I best to get just lamp and black box to drive it , and then make up the nose cone sheild to suite my reflector, or, should I buy an off the shelf unit that will just fit into the existing hole in the faring? If you suggest I buy one, what would you recommend, where would I get it and what should I pay for it? Would it really be a replacement for my current high beam in light, range and pattern? It just seems to me, that this (upgrading of lights) is not only cheaper than pulling the motor and fitting some sort of upgraded alternator, bigger batteries and 55w driving lights, but better in that the color and range of this single light is going to be better than any number of halogen lights I could fit......... Thanks for your time, thoughts and sharing your experiences.... Ben.
____________________ Moved to SoCal from Australia in March '08. Bought the Goldwing in June to help me settle in. |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted: Fri May 5th, 2006 05:22 am | 20th Post |
|
|
I have had the bike in bits after I got the HID system tested on my last run. I am waiting for few spare parts that is on their way from Japan (as usual) and in few days time I will have her back together and will take those pics and post them. To answer you questions: 1- Yes the idea initially was to install a HID Bi-Xenon Projector. But, unfortunately, I could not find any projectors that were small enough to fit in the headlight housing of the GL1500. without having to cut the back of the headlight housing and the fairing. There was another big problem with this idea. The fairing frame had to also be cut into. So I gave up that idea very quickly. I decided to try and use the original headlight reflectors as they were. There is another option which is to retrofit a reflector from a vehicle with HID Xenon bulbs as OEM. i.e. Lexus etc. But that means you have to replace the original reflectors of your vehicle. Anyway, I decided to do the easiest ands see if I can get it working or not. 2- Yes. Since Xenon bulb have their own type of base They are all round with a couple of small cuts for the positioning guides. You need to manufacture/make a base that converts the Xenon base to correspond with the base used on your vehicle. I this case it was to convert the D2S base to a Halogen H4. Which at the end of the day turned out to be very easy. 3- Yes. I have to study the way Gls reflector/H4 combination was designed and was tuned to each other. Then study the way the Xenon bulb was going to emit light. As the picture I posted earlier shows the H4 has a couple of shields in the bulb to restrict the unwanted light from being emitted out. Since a Xenon bulb emits light all over the place and there are no shield built inside or outside the bulb, I had to cut the light emitted from the Xenon to be as close as the light emitted from the H4. I therefore needed to build a shield to cover ANY light emitted downwards and straight forwards. The shield is made out of metal, it gets warm but it is no different that many other vehicles out there with shields in their headlight reflectors. Also the heat from a Xenon bulb is much less than from a Halogen. Remember that the standard Halogen bulbs used are 55/60Watts as Xenon is ONLY 35W. There much more that is different between the way Halogen vs. Xenon works that makes a Xenon using less power, creating less heat but at the same time emitting far more light. 4- The black box as you call it or the ballast, differs in size depending on the manufacturer. In my case I choose a Mastsus***a ballast which is used by Lexus, Infiniti etc. because of it is very slim and small in size. Connecting them is very simple. There is only one 12V+ and a ground that needs to be connected to the GLs Headlight bulb connector. However, this means that you will only have either Low or High beam. Xenon bulbs do not have filament and they don’t like to be turned on/off i.e. flashing headlights etc. So, I had to make my own sub-harness with a couple of diodes and a relay so I could use the bulb to work as both High and Low beam with the switches on the GL.C It is not that difficult. 5- Yes. This is were I spent most of my time. I had to fine tune the top edge of the shield I had made to the reflectors characteristics, so the light emitted from the Xenon bulb when it hit the reflector should be reflected on the road in front and on the sides of the bike in the same way that it was when there was a H4 bulb in there. I had to make sure that the light was concentrated and emitted from the Xenon bulb in the same place as the focal point of the H4. The light from any parabolic reflector is emitted ONLY from the top of the reflector. There is or should not be ANY light emitted from the bottom part of the reflector. The light emitted from the bottom portion of the reflector is your High beam. We don’t want. It should be on only when you choose to i.e. High beam or flashing your head lights. Since the reflector is not completely round the light emitted inside the reflector should correspond with the shape of the reflector and in a way that when it is reflected on the road in front of the vehicle it should be a continuation of the rest of the light from the reflector. I had to make 7 different sdges to get the best possible beam pattern. Before starting to replace things I took some pics of the beam pattern with the H4 bulb in, draw the contours od the beam pattern on a white board so I knew how the new beam pattern should look like. Then as I played with different patterns on the edge of the shield I compared the new beam pattern with the original one and after few attempts I got 99% of the original beam pattern to come up on the white board, BUT it was much stronger and wider than the original. However, it had the same cut off but much sharper this time. 6- Went for a ride, but it wasn’t any ride. It was like riding in day light. I deliberately went up and down the hill and on several very busy road with lots of traffic and then on some very quiet dark ones. AND no one not even one car or bike flashed their HI beam at me as a sign of my headlights are blinding them. Actually I asked several of my friends and neighbours to stand on the road, sit in their cars or bikes and drive past me in both straight and bent roads and none of the complained. The all however, were in awe of the amount of PURE WHITE light on the road in front of the bike. In your case I would say, get the parts needed. Try them in your bike and see how it looks . If you see that you need to do alterations then start with building the nosecone etc. First of all. With the Halogen bulb place the bike in front of a wall or white board say between 2-3 metres from the bike and take a pic or 2 and draw the borders of the beam pattern on the board. Keep the board in the same place for next time you are comparing the difference. Install the HID kit. If you need the diagram on the sub harness let me know and I will post it. Connect every thing and place the bike on the same spot and compare the new beam pattern with the original one. Draw in a different colour. Post a pic of everything and I will run you through things if need be.
____________________ Have fun, Drive safe and enjoy your ride. GL1500SE |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Current time is 02:29 am | Page: 1 2 3 |
| Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums > Forums > Goldwing Technical Forum > HID system on GoldWing | Top of Page |
Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
