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Gambler
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Posted: Sat Aug 20th, 2005 01:22 am | 81st Post |
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| this one has a stain, but no pitting Attachment: goldwing rebuild 082 (Small).jpg (Downloaded 192 times)
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87 GL1200 Interstate(reborn  )
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Goldwinger1984
Senior Guru
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Posted: Sat Aug 20th, 2005 01:52 am | 82nd Post |
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Gambler wrote: Goldwinger1984 wrote: Gambler wrote: I hope those are viewable. oh, the engine had good oil pressure.
on the rings, lets not forget that ring tension isn't what seals the compression in the bore, it's the gas pressure pushing against the inner part of the ring. so I think I will reuse the rings and not worry about it. if it smokes or has low compression, I will pull it and redo it.
but I still like to hear what other people have to say, and this how info gets shared. so thanks to everybody who has made comments.
All the pics look great Gambler and from what I see everything looks to be in excellent condition.
You're right on about the rings using the expanding gases to seal, but, weak rings will allow oil seepage into the combustion chamber and cause smoke.
On the next 1200 I pull apart I want to look into locating some pistons and rings from some car that would have the same centers and configuration that could be used on the 1200. This would help to reduce rebuild costs on highly worn engines and will also allow for varying the compression ratio to suit a turbo or supercharger, or even more impotant, for better fuel economy. I can honestly see these 4 cylinder Wings being on the road for many years to come so it may be a worthwhile venture to determine alternative parts sources rather than Honda.
Anyway, enough daydreaming for now.
Keep up the great posts Gambler and I can't wait to se the post that tells us you fired the engine up after reassembly.
Vic
very few cars have pistons that small. geo metro comes to mind. and honda had a 1.3l engine didn't they? maybe I will take some measurements and post them up so someone could start doing some research on that.
I'm looking into what it would cost for custom pistons to be built over here in Canada, once I get the price I'll compare it to Honda's stock piston and post that info. Considering the price that Honda wants for pistons and rings it may be one avenue for new pistons.
The 1200 piston are approximately 75.5 mm or 2.97" in diameter.
BTW, your most recent pics show up pretty good. Have you checked the cylinders for taper yet?
Vic
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A place for GL1200's to gather.
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Gambler
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Posted: Sat Aug 20th, 2005 02:05 am | 83rd Post |
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| haven't checked for taper, and may not. no news is good news. if I get too deep into this I will wind up spending more than I want. the trans parts I got off ebay look primo and now just waiting for the gasket set(also from ebay).
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87 GL1200 Interstate(reborn )
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johnmac
Very Active Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 20th, 2005 02:53 am | 84th Post |
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With the tops of the cylinders still having the cross hatch, I would bet there is no taper.
____________________
John
1996 GL1500 SE
Past bikes
1985 Aspencade 1200
1978 Honda GL 1000
1974 Honda 350 Four
1974 Yamaha TY 250 Trials
1973 Yamaha 360 RT3
1971 Honda SL 100
1968 Honda Trail 50
3 1/2 HP mini bike
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Gambler
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Posted: Sat Aug 20th, 2005 03:07 am | 85th Post |
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johnmac wrote: With the tops of the cylinders still having the cross hatch, I would bet there is no taper.
well, I went back to the shop and got my dial bore gage. very minimal taper less than .001 of an inch, more like .0005,. the cylinders have good crosshatch all over so there doesn't appear to be much wear.
also, it appears this bike did it's miles on long distance trips.(the previous owner had done several coast to coast trips, and I believe this was why the engine looks so good inside)
(yes, I live 5 min. from the shop )
Last edited on Sat Aug 20th, 2005 03:10 am by Gambler
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87 GL1200 Interstate(reborn )
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Gambler
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Posted: Sat Aug 20th, 2005 06:44 am | 86th Post |
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| oil pump screen, Attachment: goldwing rebuild 087 (Small).jpg (Downloaded 164 times)
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87 GL1200 Interstate(reborn )
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Gambler
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Posted: Sat Aug 20th, 2005 06:45 am | 87th Post |
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| getting there. knocking off for the night. mr beam here I come Attachment: goldwing rebuild 089 (Small).jpg (Downloaded 187 times)
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87 GL1200 Interstate(reborn )
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Goldwinger1984
Senior Guru
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Posted: Sat Aug 20th, 2005 12:25 pm | 88th Post |
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You deserve a well earned rest after all that work Gambler.
Vic
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A place for GL1200's to gather.
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Renegade
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Posted: Sat Aug 20th, 2005 01:59 pm | 89th Post |
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Gambler... you are right about the cost of rebuilding an engine.. However, there are a lot of factors to concider when overhauling... A recip aircraft engine is completely overhauled to bring it back to either "within tolerance" or "new" condition.. M/C eingines fall into the same catagory.. It all depends on how much you want to spend and what you're going to do with the finished product.. Rebuilding is certainly not cheap, BUT, you know what you've got. The engine can be brought back to the condition it was when it left the factory, retaining the original serial numbers, performance and longevity of service..
Used, or what we call LKQ (Like Kind & Quality) engines may be cheaper, BUT, what are you getting? Possibly an engine that's had the S__T beat out of it, not properly maintained with regular oil changes, improper maintenance and repairs etc. Also, you could install it in the bike and after starting it up, find it has a problem which requires it to be pulled again.. Warranties mean nothing if you have to do the job more than once.
I know it takes a lot of work to overhaul one of these engines, but the built in quality of design is worth the price of the replacement parts..By the way, the ring price from the Bike Bandit is per cylinder.. I've bought many sets to know... The gasket sets range an average of $100 for each the upper and lower sets from a company in Italy... If you do the job correctly, it may be slightly higer than a used mill, but the results are well worth it.. Above all,,,, Have Fun!!! 
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LZ English 66 - 67
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I'm old and wise, but was once young and stupid.
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Gambler
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Posted: Sat Aug 20th, 2005 03:15 pm | 90th Post |
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Renegade wrote: Gambler... you are right about the cost of rebuilding an engine.. However, there are a lot of factors to concider when overhauling... A recip aircraft engine is completely overhauled to bring it back to either "within tolerance" or "new" condition.. M/C eingines fall into the same catagory.. It all depends on how much you want to spend and what you're going to do with the finished product.. Rebuilding is certainly not cheap, BUT, you know what you've got. The engine can be brought back to the condition it was when it left the factory, retaining the original serial numbers, performance and longevity of service..
Used, or what we call LKQ (Like Kind & Quality) engines may be cheaper, BUT, what are you getting? Possibly an engine that's had the S__T beat out of it, not properly maintained with regular oil changes, improper maintenance and repairs etc. Also, you could install it in the bike and after starting it up, find it has a problem which requires it to be pulled again.. Warranties mean nothing if you have to do the job more than once.
I know it takes a lot of work to overhaul one of these engines, but the built in quality of design is worth the price of the replacement parts..By the way, the ring price from the Bike Bandit is per cylinder.. I've bought many sets to know... The gasket sets range an average of $100 for each the upper and lower sets from a company in Italy... If you do the job correctly, it may be slightly higer than a used mill, but the results are well worth it.. Above all,,,, Have Fun!!!
all true, but this is a 200.00$ goldwing, and I could see spending 1500.00$ in parts or more to replace everything just for the engine.
I've been thinking, hypothetically speaking, if you roll into your local honda dealer with say 30k miles on the clock and you have a trans gear problem. and it was still under extended warranty, would the factory authorise replacing all the rings and bearings and roller bearings? I don't think so, after all these engines were designed to go more than 100k mikes with the original parts. it's a gamble reusng so many old parts but I think it will be ok. if not, I still have other bikes to ride. and too, I would like to see if this is feasable, and if so maybe more 'wings will be put back into service for less than the cost of a new bike.
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87 GL1200 Interstate(reborn )
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johnmac
Very Active Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 20th, 2005 05:29 pm | 91st Post |
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Replace gaskets and O rings. I thing other parts will be fine to reuse.
____________________
John
1996 GL1500 SE
Past bikes
1985 Aspencade 1200
1978 Honda GL 1000
1974 Honda 350 Four
1974 Yamaha TY 250 Trials
1973 Yamaha 360 RT3
1971 Honda SL 100
1968 Honda Trail 50
3 1/2 HP mini bike
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Tonys96
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Posted: Sat Aug 20th, 2005 08:10 pm | 92nd Post |
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You're doing a great job, replace what must be replaced, reuse the rest of the parts.
Keep up the good work and keep the pictures coming.
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Tony
89 GL1500
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Gambler
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Posted: Sun Aug 21st, 2005 12:57 am | 93rd Post |
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if anyone needs a specific shot of something, let me know.
has anyone ever spun the alternator drive while it's out of the case, mine makes a clicking noise. it's not the bearing, it's coming from inside. it was not making noise when it was in the case and the bike was running so I think it is normal. maybe a one way clutch or gear reduction inside the unit.
the bike was charging, so what about the stator? looks good as far as that goes but like anything electrical it could fail at any time. I found one on ebay for 155.00 new, and may order that soon. opinions?
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87 GL1200 Interstate(reborn )
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Gambler
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Posted: Sun Aug 21st, 2005 01:00 am | 94th Post |
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johnmac wrote: Replace gaskets and O rings. I thing other parts will be fine to reuse.
I ordered a complete gasket set from ebay, 116.00 shipping included, hasn't arrived yet so no comment on the quality. supposed to come with all the o-rings also.
where are you guys getting your water pumps from? mine has some play in the shaft so needs replaced.
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87 GL1200 Interstate(reborn )
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Gambler
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Posted: Sun Aug 21st, 2005 06:15 pm | 95th Post |
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| I took this shot to show the differences between the 86 and the 87, the parts I needed were the shift drum and fith gear(which has the dogs which engage second gear)(thats the broken gear on top. these are the countershafts, looks like you can only use 5th gear(lucky me) Attachment: goldwing rebuild 091 (Small).jpg (Downloaded 183 times) Last edited on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 06:30 pm by Gambler
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87 GL1200 Interstate(reborn )
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Goldwinger1984
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Posted: Sun Aug 21st, 2005 11:20 pm | 96th Post |
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Gambler, have a look here for the water pump; http://www.powersportspro.com/
Click on the big fish to open the registration page, register, then once you're in your garage on the site, select 87 Gold Wing, then look under transmission cover in the pop up menu, item number 3, the water pump is $135. If you order in August they are offerenig a 15% discount. I've dealt with these folks in the past and found them to be reliable.
I wonder if you could get a little clearer pic of the differences in the gears in that last shot? The lighting and the newspaper make it hard to distinguish the differences.
Vic
Last edited on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 11:28 pm by Goldwinger1984
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A place for GL1200's to gather.
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andrewns5
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Posted: Mon Aug 22nd, 2005 12:59 am | 97th Post |
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| I called the local dealer the other day for a set of rings for my 76 1000,i asked for rings ,complete gasket set,primary chain and gears,primarychain tensioner and water pump and the total was just shy of 1200 canadian,thats if nothing else needs to be replaced which we won,t know until we tear it down,still debating what to do
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andrew
1976 gl 1000
1981 650 suzuki
05 yamaha silverado
1975 mt 125 honda
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Goldwinger1984
Senior Guru
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Posted: Mon Aug 22nd, 2005 02:51 am | 98th Post |
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andrewns5, why don't you try checking for better pricing on those parts over the internet? On occasion I have found it cheaper to bring parts across the border myself (and pay the duty and shipping) than it would be for my local dealer to get the same parts. I think what happens in these cases is that the local dealer doesn't have the parts I need, so he would order from the internet himself and mark up the price of the parts by 25-35% after duty, exchange and shipping to sell my something I could have bought much cheaper if I did the ordering myself without the dealers help.
Vic
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A place for GL1200's to gather.
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exavid
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Posted: Tue Aug 23rd, 2005 02:25 am | 99th Post |
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Oregonwinger wrote: Rings were so bad, the crankcase loaded up with fuel, and combustion flamefront scooted past rings, everything being just right, BAMMMMMM. Quite a sight, and messy. An old Cornbinder, if I remember right.
A 1965 International Carryall we had at Kotzebue, AK blew the oil pan clear off due to gas collecting in the sump. Probably more from running too cold to get the gasoline evaporated out, but it was sure spectacular. Big bang, and a bunch of smoke. Watching the four guys bail out of it was comical too.
How about ServiceHonda for online parts?
http://www.servicehonda.com/
Last edited on Tue Aug 23rd, 2005 02:37 am by exavid
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If you can't ride, fly or sail it, why bother?
Paul W. 1993 Aspencade 1982 Aspencade
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Gambler
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Posted: Tue Aug 23rd, 2005 04:01 am | 100th Post |
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Goldwinger1984 wrote:
I wonder if you could get a little clearer pic of the differences in the gears in that last shot? The lighting and the newspaper make it hard to distinguish the differences.
Vic
Vic, I took some more pics, looks like you can use the 2nd, 3rd,5th from the 86 countershaft in the 87. however, I need the 4th gear which has the dogs on it for 3rd, which on my 4th are worn. the countershafts have a big difference, on the 87 the bearing on the inside bolts to the end of the shaft, on the 86 it sits in the case and the shaft slides into it.Attachment: goldwing rebuild 107 (Small).jpg (Downloaded 446 times)
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87 GL1200 Interstate(reborn )
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