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machinetools1
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 01:05 am | 1st Post |
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I took off my master cylinder (what a chore) cleaned and rebuilt it (easy). I also replaced the rear brakes and rear rotor while I was at it. I put everything back together and went to bleed my brakes, but cannot get them bled. I am using a mityvac hand held bleeding pump and started with the front left rotor. I took the master cylinder back off and apart to make sure it was put back together right. I tried to bleed the master cylinder first but not sure if it worked. The rear brake pedal still acts as if I have no brakes at all. Where did I go wrong? How do I fix this problem.
Thanks Michael
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Wolfman
Forum Greeter
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 01:51 am | 2nd Post |
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| Did you try to loosen the banjo bolt at the master cylinder and bleed from there too? I've never done it on the rear brake, but I have done it on the front and it sometimes makes a difference. Last edited on Mon May 12th, 2008 01:53 am by Wolfman
____________________
'96 GL1500 SE
Honda Riders of Tidewater -- Chapter President
http://www.hrot.org/
http://www.hrot.org/martino/goldwing/
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jtbradyl
Active Member
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 02:04 am | 3rd Post |
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You might check the lines for a pin hole leak.
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machinetools1
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 05:12 am | 4th Post |
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It appears I have all of the air out of the lines as I get no more bubbles and its all nice and clear. I still do not have any pedal, it just goes to the bottom of the stroke.
The problem I had before I tore it apart was, I would ride abput 10 miles and the rear brake would start to lock up. I would bleed it and it would be beter. I read on this forum about the return hole in the master cylinder being pluged, causing the fluid not to drain back. Now I have no brake pedal, i took the master cylinder apart twice and it appears to be put back together right, but still have no pedal pressure.
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Rumple
Active Member
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 08:25 am | 5th Post |
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You might try taking your caliper off and pump the pedal "gently" to see if the pucks extend. This would let you know if your pucks are frozen in place or not.
Does the the caliper spit fluid with the bleed screw loose and you apply pressure on the pedal? Or are you using just the vaccum pump to pull the fluid through the lines? The reason I ask is because your master cyclinder could just be shot and not pumping at all.
Your brake lines do not really get plugged, but they collapse. Letting fluid through in one direction, out and not letting the brake fuild pressure to return to the resivior, releasing your brake pressure.
I ask all these questions, because I had a royal pain in the butt with my 82 GL bleeding the brakes. But after getting fluid through each line to the calipier then checking the pucks for expansion before I installed them. (which actually fills the chambers of the calipiers with fluid) Then squeezing them back in. Installing them back on the disc, I had good brakes.
Good luck and be patient, Rumple
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Kit Carson
GL1800 Guru
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 11:18 am | 6th Post |
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Well I am not standing there......hard to say........but if everything is properly installed, and clean, all working .....lines all full.......everything bled well........it can only be one thing.......the piston in the master cylinder is not working. You are not getting any push or pressure if you will.....pump the foot lever and work the bleed valve by hand , put pressure on the foot lever and open the rear bleed....pump open, shut release. pump open, shut release.......about six times.....if no fluid squirts out......the piston is not sealing.not working....caput.........if fluid does start to come out.....keep at it.....might have a air lock at the piston.........wrap an old towel around the caliper also.....be careful about getting brake fluid on anything plastic...it will eat it up. Kit
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Keno
Senior Member
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 08:18 pm | 7th Post |
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machinetools1, in your post you mentioned the return hole in the m/cyl.Hope you didn't over look there are two holes in the m/cyl. one is real small and sometimes overlooked. It causes a lot grieve when trying to bleed as it won't allow the m/cyl to bleed back the air in the piston area if closed off. The tell tale sign is the brakes building pressure and not releasing, then not being being able to bleed air after repairs or rebuilds. Keno
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jtbradyl
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 08:35 pm | 8th Post |
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I'll bet that's part of the problem, the small hole being clogged. Just pop off the reservoir and take a very small wire or needle and clean it. Before you do this get the O ring that seals the reservoir from the Honda dealer. Then you can clean all the corrosion in the well and replace the O ring when you put the reservoir back on.
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83GoldWinger
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 10:31 pm | 9th Post |
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 Isn't the R/H front linked to the rear brake and the L/H front is operated by the handle bar brake lever? If so you bleed the R/H front first & then bleed the rear.
____________________
83GoldWinger
1983 GL1100 Interstate
Candy Regal Brown (the most popular color)
Bought New Jan 25th 1983
------------------------------------------
1968 CL350
1st Registerd Owner
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Wolfman
Forum Greeter
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 10:36 pm | 10th Post |
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83GoldWinger wrote: Isn't the R/H front linked to the rear brake and the L/H front is operated by the handle bar brake lever? If so you bleed the R/H front first & then bleed the rear. No, this changed on the 1500, now it's the LH front is linked to the rear.
____________________
'96 GL1500 SE
Honda Riders of Tidewater -- Chapter President
http://www.hrot.org/
http://www.hrot.org/martino/goldwing/
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jtbradyl
Active Member
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 11:17 pm | 11th Post |
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Whoops. I'm sorry I just read the first post and see that the problem started after you rebuilt the master cylinder, very mysterious. On my bike I replaced all the brake pistons with stainless steel, replaced the hoses, brake pads, O ring seals, and rebuilt the master cylinders just so I wouldn't have any problems. And even though at the time this work seemed more precautionary than necessary it turned out to be necessary.
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83GoldWinger
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 11:27 pm | 12th Post |
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Wolfman wrote: 83GoldWinger wrote: Isn't the R/H front linked to the rear brake and the L/H front is operated by the handle bar brake lever? If so you bleed the R/H front first & then bleed the rear. No, this changed on the 1500, now it's the LH front is linked to the rear.
Thanks for the info Wolfman, didn't realize Honda made a change on the 1500's
____________________
83GoldWinger
1983 GL1100 Interstate
Candy Regal Brown (the most popular color)
Bought New Jan 25th 1983
------------------------------------------
1968 CL350
1st Registerd Owner
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machinetools1
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 03:00 am | 13th Post |
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Well, Worked on it a little tonight. Have to work a double tonight so I have to get ready for work. When I had the master cylinder apart, I did see the ultra small hole next to the bigger one. I did not clean it out with a small piece of wire but did use brake clean and 140 lbs of compressed air, hope that was good enough.
I teflon taped the bleeder valves and had my daughter work the pedal for me. I agian used the Mity-Vac, then put a hose submerged in brake fluid and had her pump the rear brake pedal as I had the front left bleeder open. I got a ton of air out of the system, and I thought it was all out. I moved back and forth from the front to the rear using the same method. We got the brakes hard, I let it set for about 1/2 hour and pushed the rear brake pedal but it felt spongy agian.
Do you guys think I still have more air traped in the lines. Thanks for all of your valuable help.
Michael
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Kit Carson
GL1800 Guru
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 09:28 am | 14th Post |
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Yes you still have air in the brakes, but making progress!!. Just a tip for anyone reading this about bleeding brakes. Those little bleed valves are quite small and have easy to damage fine threads. There is no need to use a wrench on the little valves during the bleed process where you may loosen and tighten them ten times.
Once loose with a well fitting wrench, just turn them open and shut gently by hand, finger tight only will seal them well enough to bleed the brakes, only when you are done do you need to tighten them. And then only just snug. Kit
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mkbwatts
Senior Member
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 11:13 am | 15th Post |
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Excellent point Kit 
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Ciao for now - Miles from nowhere on a RED '99 SE
We're all terminal the day we are born - enjoy the journey!
May you live all the days of your life.
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jetlag
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Posted: Fri May 23rd, 2008 02:44 pm | 16th Post |
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I am in the process of doing the same thing. How is the pump secured to the housing? Is it the circlip?
I also had some white jelly-like substance at the bottom of my bowl and in the pistons of the the caliper.
In addition my rear brake no longer works and I didn't touch it or any part of it!
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jetlag
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Posted: Fri May 23rd, 2008 02:46 pm | 17th Post |
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I am in the process of doing the same thing. How is the pump secured to the housing? Is it the circlip?
I also had some white jelly-like substance at the bottom of my bowl and in the pistons of the the caliper.
In addition my rear brake no longer works and I didn't touch it or any part of it!
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