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Snorebaby
Senior Member
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Posted: Mon Aug 4th, 2008 03:32 am | 1st Post |
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Hey guys and gals!! Sorry this is kinda long....but I wanted to be as informative as possible.
Gotta couple things going on with my 85 LTD. Here is the scenerio:
When I purchased my wing in Nov. '06 I rode it for a short while (couple of months) before changing the timing belts. The temp. gauge rarely got above 4 bars. Didn't do a lot of hwy riding (70+mph)...mostly 2 lanes up to 65mph to get used to the bike. Changed the belts and the antifreeze at the same time. I rode all last summer in up to 115* weather, again mostly 2 lane roads, and it rarely got above 4 bars except in stop and go traffic, then it was 6 bars but cooled off pretty quickly once I got moving again. This is solo or 2 up, doesn't matter. I ride all year, so she never sits for long .
No comes my problem. I noticed this spring on the SERRASJ 3 trip to Panama City Beach, FL my temp stayed at 5 bars most of the time....again 2 lane roads and 2 up. Air temps were nice...mid 80's... so I didn't think anything of it, just made a mental note. As the summer got hotter and when Creekwalker and I (solo) went to WV, riding the hwy (73-75mph), my temp got to 6 bars and stayed there with my fan intermittenly coming on. I could tell it was running by watching my voltage meter drop 1-2 tenths when it came on. It would cycle on and off but the bars never moved. Even with the cooler weather in WV (85*) and riding the at hwy speeds it stayed at 6 bars. Never got above 6 bars. About the only time it stayed below 6 bars was in the morning with the air temps in the 60's.
So.... last week I decided to look into the problem. Thinking the rad was "overfull", I took the false tank off, removed the rad cap and the coolant was all the way to the top and the resevoir tank was at the upper level mark. Ran the bike while on the center stand and let it idle to bring the temp up to see if the water pump was doing it's job. As the bike heated up, I used a large syringe to remove the coolant before it overflowed as it heated up. Removed probably about a 1/3 cup of coolant before the level actually dropped and the thermostat opened fully. The resevoir level also dropped by that much. Everything seemed to be good as the fan came on at 6 bars and cooled the rad to make it drop to 5 bars.
Testing it out...now it runs at 5 bars around town and speeds up to 65mph. No matter the air temp. If it does get to 6 bars, the fan comes on and it will cool back down to 5 and stay there while riding. BUT at speeds 70+mph on the hwy, it stays at 6 bars no matter the air temp. I rode 212 miles to my brothers and back today (air temps from 88-96) and verified this again.
I am confused on what could be causing this. The thermostat? water pump? fan? radiator? Help me please . OH....I used the 50/50 premix of coolant. Should I change it and go with a 60(coolant)/40(water) mix?
And on a side note.....could the engine temp affect my fuel pump (external)? It seems to get hot after riding the 70+mph for a while and will quit working. All I have to do is pour some water on it and it is good for a while (read my Snowshoe report, Day 4 in the Misc forum) . If I stay below 70mph, I can ride all day and don't seem to have problems with the fuel pump.
Thanks In Advance!!
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Snorebaby (Doug) and Snorebabe (Michele)
 '85 GL1200 LTD
'86 CMX450 Rebel
PGR#137660 http://www.patriotguard.org
SERRASJ Ride Photos http://annualssgwrally.us/coppermine
Give & Get help traveling: http://glhelpers.com/members
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redwing52
Very Active Member
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Posted: Mon Aug 4th, 2008 05:52 am | 2nd Post |
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| Idoubt there is much difference between 5 and 6 bars. Neither are in the hot range, are they? There are several variables that could be responsible for the variation in temp. If it were me I would not worry unless it was getting dangerously close to the hot mark. Make sure the res. and radiator are both full. It is possible to have the res. full and not the radiator if you have a bad radiator cap or bad hoses.
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exavid
Top Poster
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Posted: Mon Aug 4th, 2008 06:02 am | 3rd Post |
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| From your description I'd think you may have a problem with the radiator, possibly scaled or partially plugged. It might be worth pulling it and taking it to a radiator shop for a thorough cleaning. A shop will be able to clean one up like new, using any kind of auto parts store's flush or radiator cleaning stuff won't hack it. The fact that it crept up to the hotter running condition does sound like something building up, not a failure of some part of the cooling system like a bad thermostat or such. It wouldn't hurt to look at the thermostat, you can test it to see if it opens properly at the right temperature. You can also test your LCD panel gauge, if I remember right the electrical supplemental manual for the LTD/SEI has a test section to trouble shoot cooling system including verification of the panel readings and sensor. You can get a copy of the electrical supplement manual for a lot less than I paid for mine when I had an SEI, it's free for the download on the Reference and FAQ forum.
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If you can't ride, fly or sail it, why bother?
Paul W.
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1200L rider
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Posted: Mon Aug 4th, 2008 07:38 am | 4th Post |
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Hi snorbaby , I have had this exact same problem for over a year now, been driving me nuts, I've changed every part associated with the cooling system including four radiators with no effect, I'm still running one to two bars off max all the time. The fuel pump shut off thing do not know if normal to shut down, but it did happen about a month ago, I was returning from Show low, 180 miles into the nonstop down the mountain and through Phoenix 5:00 in the afternoon air temp 117 degrees, temp gage reading one bar off max the fuel pump did shut down sat on an off ramp for five minutes and started right up rest the way home no further problems. I will checking on exavid's idea on checking the indicator, but the two indicators below my kneecaps say engine is running hot, good luck
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retiredintime
Senior Member
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Posted: Mon Aug 4th, 2008 11:58 am | 5th Post |
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| You mentioned changing the coolant mix to 60 antifreeze and 40 water. Well...The manual for my bike, non Honda, actually says that in temperant climate where the temp does not get below -20 to use a mix of 60% water and 40% antifreeze. It seems antifreeze does not have good cooling properties...Just a thought. By the way that is how my coolant is, 60% water...
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Bob..KF4GP
If it ain't broke, fix it till it is!
Life is ten percent what you make it, and ninety percent how you take it!
79 GL1000 46K
86 R80RT
90 K75RT
Garage won't hold any more!
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Snorebaby
Senior Member
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Posted: Mon Aug 4th, 2008 02:10 pm | 6th Post |
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Thanks for the replies!! I am leaning toward the radiator beginning to build up. Only problem is that the next 3 weeks I won't have but 1 or 2 days off. So it will be a while before I can work on it and pull the rad to take it to be cleaned. Probably gonna replace the thermostat and hoses at that time also, just because I can and not sure how old the hoses are. While on my ride yesterday, a bike was broke down (not sure of make) with a busted top hose on the side of the interstate. Got me thinking about mine. Figured if I have to pull the rad...might as well change the hoses and thermostat.
Any ideas on aftermarket hoses/thermostats? Or should I go back with Honda stuff?
I am gonna change the mixture to 60% water/40% antifreeze next Sunday (my next day off). That won't take long to do and will see how that works out for right now. I will be doing mostly around town and up to 65mph (less than 15 miles at that speed) riding for a while as I am gonna be working alot. So temp wise it should be ok.
Thanks again.
____________________
Snorebaby (Doug) and Snorebabe (Michele)
'85 GL1200 LTD
'86 CMX450 Rebel
PGR#137660 http://www.patriotguard.org
SERRASJ Ride Photos http://annualssgwrally.us/coppermine
Give & Get help traveling: http://glhelpers.com/members
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Snorebaby
Senior Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 12:29 am | 7th Post |
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UPDATE:
Haven't ridden it yet....just got it all back together!!
Took the rad to a shop to be cleaned..$20
Used a 50/50 mix (self mixed....not the premix stuff)
Burped the system and of course made a mess . Started the bike on the center stand to check for leaks. It took a little longer for the temp to show 1 bar. When it reached 6 bars the fan cut on like normal and it didn't take long to get down to 5 bars and the fan cut off. May have solved the problem by cleaning the radiator. Will test ride it tomorrow on the interstate (70+mph) to see what happens.
While I had it tore apart, decided to add a fuse block, put new driving lights on her and clean up some wiring and run it to the fuse block. Wire-tied the fuse block to some connectors under the false tank...easy to get to....just lift the Travel Computer and PRESTO!! there they are. Even made labels for them!
Will post the results of the test ride tomorrow.
Last edited on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 12:30 am by Snorebaby
____________________
Snorebaby (Doug) and Snorebabe (Michele)
'85 GL1200 LTD
'86 CMX450 Rebel
PGR#137660 http://www.patriotguard.org
SERRASJ Ride Photos http://annualssgwrally.us/coppermine
Give & Get help traveling: http://glhelpers.com/members
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Snorebaby
Senior Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 08:50 pm | 8th Post |
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TEST RIDE UPDATE:
It may be lengthy but just want to be thorough...
Test Ride at start -- Outside Temp-84* and Partly Cloudy
Rode 1.5 miles to gas station through neighborhoods @>30mph...3bars by the time I got there.
Filled up and waited on traffic get on with the test ride. While waiting approx 2 minutes it went to 4bars.
Left gas station and got on the I-520 bypass. 65mph for 10 miles then it went to 5bars. Got off and rode about 10 miles through town traffic. Would get up to 6bars at the lights and while going real slow, but soon dropped to 5bars while steady riding above 30mph.
Got on I-20 and set the cruise @ 75mph. Rode approx 17miles and it went to 6bars once, but within a mile or so dropped back down to 5bars. The section of I-20 I rode is not flat. Got off at an exit and waited on traffic to get back on to make my return trip. While waiting, it got back up to 6bars and the fan kicked on. Once back on the interstate, it dropped down to 5bars and stayed there. Retraced my route and it would go from 5 to 6bars and back depending on the situation.
Total of approx 72miles. At the end of the ride the outside temp was 88*.
I have "fixed" the problem of 6 bars on the interstate at 70+mph. I am happy with that, but I would like to get it back to 4bars where it was last summer instead of 5. I know with cooler weather coming up, the temp shouldn't be a problem during the winter months.
Maybe my rad cap is getting "weak" and not holding the pressure enough? Could it be the thermostat not opening far enough? Didn't replace it at this time but I don't think it is the problem. The water pump is working fine. Maybe I should go with a 60(water)/40(anit-freeze) mixture instead of 50/50?
What is the aftermarket cap for the radiator?
____________________
Snorebaby (Doug) and Snorebabe (Michele)
'85 GL1200 LTD
'86 CMX450 Rebel
PGR#137660 http://www.patriotguard.org
SERRASJ Ride Photos http://annualssgwrally.us/coppermine
Give & Get help traveling: http://glhelpers.com/members
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Rudy
Forum Ferret
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 08:55 pm | 9th Post |
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| Good. You want to ride with me and mikef tomorrow?
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Rudy
'89 GL1500K 96k - http://goldwingtech.info
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SaberCycle: The lesson that just keeps on getting learned.
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MDKramer
Moderator
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 08:59 pm | 10th Post |
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I would suggest going to a 60% water, 40% antifreeze solution Snorey.
Antifreeze is to keep the water from freezing in cold weather...it actually HOLDS heat in (pour a spot on the back of your hand, and let it sit for a minute, you'll feel what I'm talking about).
Dilute the solution a bit, and you should see your temps drop back down.
Mike
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Mike Kramer
Proudly supporting Viet Nam Vets and Legacy Vets M/C
Red is for the blood shed Black is for the mourning
Been riding that 1980 beauty to the left since 1989
Helpful Hint: Traffic lights timed for 35mph are also timed for 70, 105, and 140!
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Snorebaby
Senior Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 09:48 pm | 11th Post |
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MDKramer wrote: I would suggest going to a 60% water, 40% antifreeze solution Snorey.
Antifreeze is to keep the water from freezing in cold weather...it actually HOLDS heat in (pour a spot on the back of your hand, and let it sit for a minute, you'll feel what I'm talking about).
Dilute the solution a bit, and you should see your temps drop back down.
Mike
I was thinking the same thing. Just needed some "confirmation"
Now for the math.....50/50 is so easy when it the capacity is 3qts
____________________
Snorebaby (Doug) and Snorebabe (Michele)
'85 GL1200 LTD
'86 CMX450 Rebel
PGR#137660 http://www.patriotguard.org
SERRASJ Ride Photos http://annualssgwrally.us/coppermine
Give & Get help traveling: http://glhelpers.com/members
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wing ding
Active Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 10:07 pm | 12th Post |
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I have a somewhat different problem with my temp gauge. Somedays it reads about "normal" (4 to 5 bars) Other days it reads low or not at all. Sometimes it will be mid range and the fan will be on and other times it will be higher and the fan will be off. Yesterday I rode 220 miles. It never even made it to midrange and that's with climbing some very big hills.I can't trust the gauge anymore. I think my temp thermister is going bad. I changed the fan switch last winter and will be changing the gauge sensor this winter as the bike will have to be torn down even more to get to it. I would really like to tee off of the engine and put a digital gauge on.
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Be careful, that there is gravity sensitive!
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exavid
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Posted: Sat Aug 30th, 2008 10:14 pm | 13th Post |
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| 60/40 water/anti-freeze will move more heat than 50/50. Might be just enough to kick down one bar.
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If you can't ride, fly or sail it, why bother?
Paul W.
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The Gatekeeper
Guru
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Posted: Sat Aug 30th, 2008 11:48 pm | 14th Post |
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wing ding wrote: I have a somewhat different problem with my temp gauge. Somedays it reads about "normal" (4 to 5 bars) Other days it reads low or not at all. Sometimes it will be mid range and the fan will be on and other times it will be higher and the fan will be off. Yesterday I rode 220 miles. It never even made it to midrange and that's with climbing some very big hills.I can't trust the gauge anymore. I think my temp thermister is going bad. I changed the fan switch last winter and will be changing the gauge sensor this winter as the bike will have to be torn down even more to get to it. I would really like to tee off of the engine and put a digital gauge on.
Just a thought but have you checked the condition of the wiring from the switch to the guage, In easy terms the way temperature guages work is that as the engine becomes hotter the switch should reduce the resistance in the circuit allowing more power to get to the guage so it reads higher temperature.
If you have bad connections or corroded wiring in that circuit no matter how hot your engine gets if the power can't get to the guage it will always read cold
Hope this helps
Darren - TG
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If at first you dont succeed - try doing it the way you were told in the first place!
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wing ding
Active Member
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Posted: Sun Aug 31st, 2008 01:33 am | 15th Post |
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The Gatekeeper wrote:
wing ding wrote: I have a somewhat different problem with my temp gauge. Somedays it reads about "normal" (4 to 5 bars) Other days it reads low or not at all. Sometimes it will be mid range and the fan will be on and other times it will be higher and the fan will be off. Yesterday I rode 220 miles. It never even made it to midrange and that's with climbing some very big hills.I can't trust the gauge anymore. I think my temp thermister is going bad. I changed the fan switch last winter and will be changing the gauge sensor this winter as the bike will have to be torn down even more to get to it. I would really like to tee off of the engine and put a digital gauge on.
Just a thought but have you checked the condition of the wiring from the switch to the guage, In easy terms the way temperature guages work is that as the engine becomes hotter the switch should reduce the resistance in the circuit allowing more power to get to the guage so it reads higher temperature.
If you have bad connections or corroded wiring in that circuit no matter how hot your engine gets if the power can't get to the guage it will always read cold
Hope this helps
Darren - TG
I'll be doing that this winter. Have to pull the fairing and everything else so i'd rather do it when riding season is over. I'm going to change the sending unit no matter what seeing it's 26 yrs. old and the fan switch right next to it was bad last summer.
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Be careful, that there is gravity sensitive!
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pauln
Guru
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Posted: Sun Aug 31st, 2008 02:34 am | 16th Post |
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Snorebaby wrote: I have "fixed" the problem of 6 bars on the interstate at 70+mph. I am happy with that, but I would like to get it back to 4bars where it was last summer instead of 5. I know with cooler weather coming up, the temp shouldn't be a problem during the winter months.
Snorey,
My LTD acts exactly the way yours does now (after you had the radiator cleaned). It started when I changed the antifreeze to the Honda car 50-50 premix. With the old antifreeze normal riding was 3-4 bars, now it is 4-5 bars. It does not take much sitting in traffic to get it to 6 bars and then 7 and the fan goes on.
So, I suspect it may be (as has been suggested) the 50-50 versus 60-40 antifreeze. Let us know how the 60-40 works if you try it. I would have to check on the specs before I do 60-40 on mine because it gets so *&^% cold here in the winter - don't want to break the block.
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Paul from Ohio
85 GL1200 LTD
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exavid
Top Poster
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Posted: Sun Aug 31st, 2008 03:01 am | 17th Post |
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| Nothing wrong with using a 60/40 ratio of water to coolant in the summer and changing to 50/50 in the fall when cool weather returns.
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If you can't ride, fly or sail it, why bother?
Paul W.
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pauln
Guru
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 04:07 pm | 18th Post |
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exavid wrote: Nothing wrong with using a 60/40 ratio of water to coolant in the summer and changing to 50/50 in the fall when cool weather returns.
 
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Paul from Ohio
85 GL1200 LTD
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