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Wolfman
Forum Greeter
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 04:58 pm | 61st Post |
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This is degenerating very quickly. There's no reason for that.
If you don't trust her, you feel that she is playing us with a well thought out message, so be it. Say so and move on.
There are people here that stopped buying from her, or never bought from her because they read the messages on this board. There are people that did not have a bad experience, and still stopped buying because of what they read. That's the power of the internet and businesses of all sorts are discovering that power the hard way, some of it fair and some of it not fair. There's an old adage in retail that a satisfied customer may tell 3 people. An unsatisfied person WILL tell 10 people. Well sorry to say it's multiplied in the information age.
If you don't believe her and you want to play wait and see, that's fine, it's your option.
If you have been burned and will never giver her another chance, that's your option too.
Say it and move on.
But this is not the place for a degenerated hi tech lynching. This is not the place to "get even". You've already done that.
Last edited on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 05:02 pm by Wolfman
____________________
'96 GL1500 SE
Honda Riders of Tidewater -- Chapter President
http://www.hrot.org/
http://www.hrot.org/martino/goldwing/
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Hickey
Active Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 05:04 pm | 62nd Post |
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Hi All,
I agree with Wolfman. Just move on. She has a part that I would like to get and I can't find any were else. I'll wait and see. I can live without it.
Hickey
____________________
70 Harley, 74 & 77 Suzuki, 86A Goldwing, 99SE Goldwing
ALR POST 820
PGR MEMBER
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mikef
Moderator
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 05:14 pm | 63rd Post |
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| I'm not looking to lynch. I'm looking to see how many are willing to give her a chance to make up for the actions of her company. We do plenty of it here, for our members.
____________________
Mike
93 Aspy
http://goldwingtech.info
Buy & Sell your stuff: http://RudysBackyard.com/
http://glhelpers.com/members/
http://www.northamericangoldwings.com/
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William_86
Senior Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 05:32 pm | 64th Post |
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What was that ??
SC wrote: William_86 wrote: DigbyODell wrote:hope your business fails miserably
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL that made my day. im with you man!
11,200 members here and growing like cudzu
Have to wonder how many agree with fails miserably
I would not know as you stated "I'm too stupid to pull my head out of my ass"
 , , , , , , ,  , , , , , , 
____________________
85' GL 1200 Interstate - My Picture Thread
Useful links: Manuals, Randakk's
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SB in SC
Senior Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 05:34 pm | 65th Post |
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OK, I figure I'll put my $0.02 in.
This is a great forum, full of caring and helpful people. The beauty is that we try to watch out for each other in all sorts of ways. One way is warning others about bad experiences in dealing with vendors. If you hear something once, you can dismiss it, twice, maybe a little bit harder to overlook, but several times from trustworthy friends is too hard to let go. Many people here have been treated badly by Saber Cycle and thats why I refuse to do business with them. I've seen the "nastygrams" members have received from this company. There are a few here who say they have not had bad experiences, meaning they paid their money and got the right part, but that seems to be the exception and not the rule. Now the owner of this company comes on here and "states her case" and offers up reasons for past behavior, but then states "but our business is doing great despite what y'all have been saying." For one, I don't buy that. If you haven't seen some difference and we didn't matter, you wouldn't have bothered with us. I feel like someone is feeling a pinch and is doing damage control. I fully support her right to come on here and tell her side, I just don't buy it. I don't want this to become a lynching or a pissing contest. We're all adults and should act like it, but the door was opened to discuss this company by the owner and thats what we're doing. I have found it takes just as much time to compose a thoughtful and courteous email response as it does a hateful and abusive one, so anyone that chooses to do the latter is doing so of their own free will and accord. I, for one, will not do business with such people.
The soapbox is now available for the next person.
____________________
Resident Redneck
1997 GL1500 Aspencade Limited Edition
1983 GL1100 Aspencade
Freemasonry--2B1ASK1
"Fear the government that fears YOUR guns."
Don't blame me, my state was RED.
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MDKramer
Moderator
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 05:51 pm | 66th Post |
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I agree with you Mike.
How many people are willing to give her a chance to make up for the actions of her company?
Now, before another person hits their keys to post something negative toward Diane or Saber Cycle (or even me for saying this), put yourself in her shoes.
You (or your representatives) screwed up. You recognize this error. You make the first step, come here with olive branch in hand, post an explanation and an apology and a veiled pledge to do better.
Some people take the opinion that you've made the first step and are willing to accept your words, and give you a fair opportunity to reform...but those folks are few.
Unfortunately, the thread erupts into an overwhelming swell of people stating they think you're full of crap, they think you're pond scum, they don't believe you, they wouldn't buy from you if you had the last possible part for their bike on earth, accuse you of ulterior motives, etc...
Are you going to be willing to come back?
Are you going to be willing to actually listen to some of those people?
Or are you just going to say "well, I tried and got attacked" and move on to greener pastures.
It seems to me that Diane recognizes that there is a HUGE market right here in this forum, and that there have been problems in the past for many in that market. She may realize that it's hurting her business, she may not. What she DOES see is 12,000 Goldwingers in one place. A very convenient niche market for the products she provides. She sees potential for growth...provided some things within her own business are addressed and corrected.
I don't fault her for this. In fact, I actually have some respect for her because she had to know what was going to happen when she posted...yet she had the guts enough to step up to the plate and post anyway.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, all I'm saying is maybe those opinions can be tempered a little...not be so negative. The problems can be addressed in a positive feedback manner, with no name calling, no threats, no blatant disrespect, no accusations...Just state your problem factually and ask politely that it be addressed.
For those of you who were disrespected by a representative of Saber Cycle, it's sad that it happened...but remember, 2 wrongs do not make a right. I know your mammas raised you to turn the other cheek, to smile in the face of nastiness...to be the better person.
Pretend your grandmother crapped on your white carpet. Sure you're upset because there's crap on your carpet, but it was your beloved grandma who did it, and maybe she couldn't help it, maybe she just couldn't make it to the necessary in time...Do you yell, scream, threaten, and disrespect? Or do you sit down and discuss things rationally, and with respect toward her, and her promise not to crap on your rug again?
MikeLast edited on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 05:55 pm by MDKramer
____________________
Mike Kramer
Proudly supporting Viet Nam Vets and Legacy Vets M/C
Red is for the blood shed Black is for the mourning
Been riding that 1980 beauty to the left since 1989
Helpful Hint: Traffic lights timed for 35mph are also timed for 70, 105, and 140!
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Rudy
Forum Ferret
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 05:58 pm | 67th Post |
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| And I agree with SB in SC.
____________________
Rudy
'89 GL1500K 96k - http://goldwingtech.info
http://glhelpers.com/members
http://RudysBackyard.com/
http://annualssgwrally.us/coppermine/
SaberCycle: The lesson that just keeps on getting learned.
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GSMacLean
Senior Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 06:30 pm | 68th Post |
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I read this thread last night, and thought I would sit and think about it before whipping off a response.
First, to qualify my statements, I will state that I have never purchased anything from Saber Cycle, so I cannot state an opinion over the quality of their products. I did however once send a message asking a question about an item they had for sale on eBay, and received one of the well-known personally insulting nastygrams in response, which drove me to go purchase the same item from a different vendor.
I find it interesting that her first couple of paragraphs choose to attack the sabercyclesucks.com web site, she used phrases like "glaring inaccuracies", "bungled presentation" and "no structure to check the veracity of statements." It may be just me, but from reading that web site, it seems that the vast majority of the content of that web site was taken from forum discussions here and from other Goldwing sites. The messages weren't taken out of context, they were simply lifted and re-posted. When you have people posting stories describing their experiences dealing with Saber Cycle, including posting the actual content of emails received from Saber Cycle, I find that hard to understand how that can be construed as "glaring inaccuracies" etc.
The next paragraph she states how "Sales have increased dramatically from last year..." and goes on to describe how things are getting better. This is a theme that is commonly echoed in several of the "nastygram" emails that people have posted from Saber Cycle. They repeatedly state how their business is booming, surrounded by insults and crudities.
The next paragraph someone already mentioned - she states that they are a "favorite with many around the world"...yet they ship only within the continental US!
Being an online retailer myself, I can empathize with her statements regarding eBay and PayPal fees. I sell a great deal of merchandise primarily through eBay. I used to sell records (i.e. vinyl, music) through eBay, but took my catalog off of eBay because with seller and PayPal fees, it simply became uneconomical to utilize them anymore. I have no problem believing her reasons for not accepting PayPal.
At the end, she goes on in a bizarre story about someone who is in pain after a son's suicide and so on. She then says she is mortified to learn of "recent outbursts". I have three things to say about this:
1. The outbursts are far from "recent". Looking back in the archives even just on this site, this sort of customer abuse has been going on for YEARS.
2. Reading through the emails received from Saber Cycle and posted here by many different people, it is quite clear that the person writing them is female. This does not jive with the story she posted in this message.
3. Most importantly: I don't care about problems she has with an employee. Having owned several small business myself over the past 20 years, I have had to deal with problem employees. Firing employees who are causing problems is a fact of life. As the owner of her business, SHE IS RESPONSIBLE for the actions of her employees. If her employee is sending messages on behalf of the company, it is the COMPANY who is insulting its customers, not the employee. She says that she has "confronted the behavior many times in the past." So she is aware that this sort of nonsense has been going on over and over again - yet she has not done anything successful to stop it. She does not take the obvious action (termination) to stop it. In my eyes, this makes her as responsible as if she were writing the messages herself. I can tell you, if that were my employee, they would have been fired long ago, after the very first offense, regardless of their personal circumstances. Customers are a company's most prized asset - you NEVER do anything to insult or drive them away. In the end, her company's internal problems should not be affecting the way they deal with their customers. In this case, it is affecting them DIRECTLY, in a VERY negative way.
In my own opinion, and again, this is just my opinion based upon what I read in her message, I suspect the following:
- It has been Ms. Krizek writing the "nastygram" emails all along. There are simply too many similarities in her message here with the emails posted from Saber Cycle victims. Instead of an apologetic tone, she repeatedly goes on the defensive and offensive, defending her business practices, and those of her employees - just as the writer of the nastygrams does. There is no mystery employee who she has been "protecting."
- The posting of her "apology" message here (which really isn't an apology - she makes some excuses and defends her business practices, but doesn't actually say she's going to do anything about the problem) is simply a business move, to try to temper the opinions of a large group of enthusiasts who are her businesses' core target market.
My suggestions to her would be:
1. Write a real business apology - one that identifies and admits the shortcomings and problems her business is experiencing in the eyes of those who matter - her customers - and then states exactly the actions she is undertaking to rectify them.
2. Enact a policy that all communications coming from her company have the writer identified (i.e. SIGN THE EMAILS!), so that there is a true record of just who is destroying her company's image in the eyes of those who matter - her customers.
3. Enact a policy of listening to those who matter - her customers, and assume they are correct unless they know otherwise, in which case they should supply them with the proper information, or make it available on their web site. Their current policy of assuming the customer is wrong is one of the contributatory factors to the poor public image that has resulted in web sites such as sabercyclesucks.com.
...and that's all I have to say about that. 
Last edited on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 06:37 pm by GSMacLean
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tanygaer
Senior Moderator
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 06:35 pm | 69th Post |
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| Just a thought sabercyclesucks.com could actually be owned by saber cycles, nah it could'nt be - could it....
____________________
David
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GSMacLean
Senior Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 06:39 pm | 70th Post |
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tanygaer wrote: Just a thought sabercyclesucks.com could actually be owned by saber cycles, nah it could'nt be - could it....
If so, that's just about the worst business plan I've ever heard of!
"Let's open an anonymous web site and fill it with stories from people who have had terrible experiences with our company and our company's products, and hope it drives traffic to our site so that people will buy more products from us."
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tanygaer
Senior Moderator
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 06:51 pm | 71st Post |
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GSMacLean wrote: tanygaer wrote: Just a thought sabercyclesucks.com could actually be owned by saber cycles, nah it could'nt be - could it....
If so, that's just about the worst business plan I've ever heard of!
"Let's open an anonymous web site and fill it with stories from people who have had terrible experiences with our company and our company's products, and hope it drives traffic to our site so that people will buy more products from us."
You are correct of course, BUT, its a fairly smart search engine strategy, one page in which the words Saber Cycle appear pretty often - search engine robots dont understand the context of what they are reading, just the patterns...
It was only my two pennies worth...
____________________
David
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MDKramer
Moderator
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 06:56 pm | 72nd Post |
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GSMacLean wrote: If so, that's just about the worst business plan I've ever heard of!
"Let's open an anonymous web site and fill it with stories from people who have had terrible experiences with our company and our company's products, and hope it drives traffic to our site so that people will buy more products from us."
Worked for Ozzy Osbourne, didn't it?
Mike
____________________
Mike Kramer
Proudly supporting Viet Nam Vets and Legacy Vets M/C
Red is for the blood shed Black is for the mourning
Been riding that 1980 beauty to the left since 1989
Helpful Hint: Traffic lights timed for 35mph are also timed for 70, 105, and 140!
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WingedNut
Very Active Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 07:13 pm | 73rd Post |
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MDKramer wrote: GSMacLean wrote: If so, that's just about the worst business plan I've ever heard of!
"Let's open an anonymous web site and fill it with stories from people who have had terrible experiences with our company and our company's products, and hope it drives traffic to our site so that people will buy more products from us."
Worked for Ozzy Osbourne, didn't it?
Mike
Yeah but the alcohol and drugs worked for him too!
____________________
There's no such thing as sanity and that's the sanest fact - Dire Straits
Past:
Honda 150 Dream
1947 Harley (stolen before ridden)
Honda 250 Scrambler
Honda 450 Scrambler
1980 Honda CB650
Present:
95 GL1500A (Pearl Sierra Green)
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Whiskerfish
Senior Guru
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 08:33 pm | 74th Post |
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I bought from them a few times several years ago ( before they got blasted here and elsewhere) as a last resort due to the inconvenience of using money orders. I got the correct part each time. When I asked questions about other parts I was interested in I got answers that were straight and to the point, usually one word "yes" or "no" type of responses. Not exactly what I would describe as curt but not friendly either.
The thing that really pissed me off were the pure BS descriptions of their parts and their claims of fuel economy etc. They were written in a very condescending tone as if the rest of the world was full of incompetent mechanics that had their heads up their butts. I do not remember the exact words but there was one that basically claimed if you were not getting 55 mpg then your mechanic was an idiot. Well I am my mechanic and I will put my Wings against any ones for performance and fuel economy.
There are people out there that genuinely appreciate my business. If I have to pay a few bucks extra then so be it. I will gladly do so to work with people that have a bit of respect for the rest of the human race. Sabercycle will have to do a lot more than post a half-assed apology to ever see my business again. PLONK
____________________
Whiskerfish
1978/9 Nekid Streetfighter 50k miles
1978 Dressed Daily Rider w/150k plus miles
1976 Windjammer dressed SOLD
1975 Nekid Recently Acquired (next street bike project)
1975 Nekid 22k miles running, Currently use as engine test stand
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JBZ
Senior Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 08:42 pm | 75th Post |
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| probably a misprint she made Whiskerfish. she said she had a BA degree in communication but probably meant BS degree. Ill wait it out and keep on goin with partsnmore , georgefix , Pancho Villa and a couple others and avoid the headaches. Her business is doing great without me. JB Last edited on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 08:51 pm by JBZ
____________________
2003 yamaha vstar 1100 classic 2004 honda rebel 250 {2}1983 aspencades + 83 Interstate 82 Aspencade 77 gl 1000 81 gl 1100 standard {2}1981 Interstates 78 gl1000
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ob1quixote
Very Active Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 09:22 pm | 76th Post |
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I have no bone to pick with them, having never made a purchase from them.
To be fair, I have not had to buy any parts for my bike {required or optional} other than standard parts available at any auto parts store.
That said, I have read the many posts of problems with Saber Cycle purchases. I think my apprehension of Saber Cycle is understandable.
If all the problems source is in fact that one employee, that person should be put into a position where they have no contact with the public. Loyalty to an employee going through some tough times is laudable, but not at the cost of public relations in business.
For me, I will wait and see how things go. A post such as Diane's pretty much ensures that if a sale goes bad, we will probably hear about it here.
____________________
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Tubawinger
Active Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 10:02 pm | 77th Post |
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I've been in her shoes. sort of.
When I was in my early 20's, I bought my first restaraunt. It was in a small town, in a fairly isolated community. There was a reason that the place was such a good buy. The PO had run that place into the ground. Community good-will was nil, when I would go around town and mention that I was the owner of a new resturaunt, people would be friendly, until I mentioned the name of the place. The most common response I got was "You're a nice guy and all, but I'll never go there again," and then I would get a customer service horror story that would make Hitchcock proud.
What hurt the most was that I had to overcome a bad reputation that I had nothing to do with earning. The first thing I did was hang a large banner above the front door so that every employee (and departing customers) could see that read "We Sell Customer Service. Everything Else Is Just Pizza." Then I made sure every employee visibly lived that sign.
I did apologize to some large and visible groups that were hurt by actions of the PO. The Boy Scouts, 2 elementary schools, and the Chamber of Commerce got personal visits and free food. I fired several people who were rude to customers, one of them I fired in the middle of a phone call during a dinner rush when I overheard her say "Listen, lady..." Rudeness to the people who pay my bills, and who could go elsewhere is one thing I will never tolerate under any circumstances.
It cost me a lot of time, money and effort to recover the reputation, but after 8 months, I ended getting a front page article in the local paper reviewing my place, and the title of the article was 'Selling Customer Service'. I couldn't have been happier. I actually made money when I sold the place 2 years later!
While I'm leery about ordering from SaberCycle, I'm willing to watch and see if she changes her - or her employees' - ways. I've been in the position of trying to fix my business' reputation, and it's not easy. Let's see if she's serious, and give it a chance to work. Let's also put the power of this board to work, and if you have a great (not just good) experience from them, post it so we can monitor their progress, and make up our minds.
____________________
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
*thunk* Oops. It slipped.
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Rudy
Forum Ferret
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 10:08 pm | 78th Post |
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How hard do you think that good will recovery would have been if it had been you that had damaged it in the first place rather than the PO?
____________________
Rudy
'89 GL1500K 96k - http://goldwingtech.info
http://glhelpers.com/members
http://RudysBackyard.com/
http://annualssgwrally.us/coppermine/
SaberCycle: The lesson that just keeps on getting learned.
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Silverfox
Forum Diplomat
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 10:13 pm | 79th Post |
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GSMacLean wrote: I read this thread last night, and thought I would sit and think about it before whipping off a response.
First, to qualify my statements, I will state that I have never purchased anything from Saber Cycle, so I cannot state an opinion over the quality of their products. I did however once send a message asking a question about an item they had for sale on eBay, and received one of the well-known personally insulting nastygrams in response, which drove me to go purchase the same item from a different vendor.
I find it interesting that her first couple of paragraphs choose to attack the sabercyclesucks.com web site, she used phrases like "glaring inaccuracies", "bungled presentation" and "no structure to check the veracity of statements." It may be just me, but from reading that web site, it seems that the vast majority of the content of that web site was taken from forum discussions here and from other Goldwing sites. The messages weren't taken out of context, they were simply lifted and re-posted. When you have people posting stories describing their experiences dealing with Saber Cycle, including posting the actual content of emails received from Saber Cycle, I find that hard to understand how that can be construed as "glaring inaccuracies" etc.
The next paragraph she states how "Sales have increased dramatically from last year..." and goes on to describe how things are getting better. This is a theme that is commonly echoed in several of the "nastygram" emails that people have posted from Saber Cycle. They repeatedly state how their business is booming, surrounded by insults and crudities.
The next paragraph someone already mentioned - she states that they are a "favorite with many around the world"...yet they ship only within the continental US!
Being an online retailer myself, I can empathize with her statements regarding eBay and PayPal fees. I sell a great deal of merchandise primarily through eBay. I used to sell records (i.e. vinyl, music) through eBay, but took my catalog off of eBay because with seller and PayPal fees, it simply became uneconomical to utilize them anymore. I have no problem believing her reasons for not accepting PayPal.
At the end, she goes on in a bizarre story about someone who is in pain after a son's suicide and so on. She then says she is mortified to learn of "recent outbursts". I have three things to say about this:
1. The outbursts are far from "recent". Looking back in the archives even just on this site, this sort of customer abuse has been going on for YEARS.
2. Reading through the emails received from Saber Cycle and posted here by many different people, it is quite clear that the person writing them is female. This does not jive with the story she posted in this message.
3. Most importantly: I don't care about problems she has with an employee. Having owned several small business myself over the past 20 years, I have had to deal with problem employees. Firing employees who are causing problems is a fact of life. As the owner of her business, SHE IS RESPONSIBLE for the actions of her employees. If her employee is sending messages on behalf of the company, it is the COMPANY who is insulting its customers, not the employee. She says that she has "confronted the behavior many times in the past." So she is aware that this sort of nonsense has been going on over and over again - yet she has not done anything successful to stop it. She does not take the obvious action (termination) to stop it. In my eyes, this makes her as responsible as if she were writing the messages herself. I can tell you, if that were my employee, they would have been fired long ago, after the very first offense, regardless of their personal circumstances. Customers are a company's most prized asset - you NEVER do anything to insult or drive them away. In the end, her company's internal problems should not be affecting the way they deal with their customers. In this case, it is affecting them DIRECTLY, in a VERY negative way.
In my own opinion, and again, this is just my opinion based upon what I read in her message, I suspect the following:
- It has been Ms. Krizek writing the "nastygram" emails all along. There are simply too many similarities in her message here with the emails posted from Saber Cycle victims. Instead of an apologetic tone, she repeatedly goes on the defensive and offensive, defending her business practices, and those of her employees - just as the writer of the nastygrams does. There is no mystery employee who she has been "protecting."
- The posting of her "apology" message here (which really isn't an apology - she makes some excuses and defends her business practices, but doesn't actually say she's going to do anything about the problem) is simply a business move, to try to temper the opinions of a large group of enthusiasts who are her businesses' core target market.
My suggestions to her would be:
1. Write a real business apology - one that identifies and admits the shortcomings and problems her business is experiencing in the eyes of those who matter - her customers - and then states exactly the actions she is undertaking to rectify them.
2. Enact a policy that all communications coming from her company have the writer identified (i.e. SIGN THE EMAILS!), so that there is a true record of just who is destroying her company's image in the eyes of those who matter - her customers.
3. Enact a policy of listening to those who matter - her customers, and assume they are correct unless they know otherwise, in which case they should supply them with the proper information, or make it available on their web site. Their current policy of assuming the customer is wrong is one of the contributatory factors to the poor public image that has resulted in web sites such as sabercyclesucks.com.
...and that's all I have to say about that.
For me, I think this a very good insight into the origional post and just about the way I see it. I am of course one of the "worldwide customers" that she claims to ship to in her missive, which goes completely against her own companies blurb on the Internet . 
If her response was to just one member who had posted about bad service I may give her the benifit of the doubt, but I am afraid the weight of opinion far outweighs her attempts at appology.
Key to her poor response was to blame a male employee, when quite clearly staed in the resposes that folks have received, it was a woman who sent them.
To claim to have only just found this all out is downright ignorance.... ignorance of how her business is being run if nothing else.
So if she does ever go "International", I am afraid I still wouldn't do business with such a company or individual.
____________________
Pete
Calhoun Pictures.. Click to View..
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rcmatt007
Senior Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 10:17 pm | 80th Post |
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| all I can say is that when they had a problem with my credit card I recieved a very rude response, calling me a crook, and telling me never to try to do business with them again
____________________
-Rodger-
"If you don't pursue your dream, you might as well be a vegetable"
'75 frame and parts project, '78 1000, '86 1200I, 05 HD-Road King
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