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Rudy
Forum Ferret
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 10:41 pm | 81st Post |
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| I'm not going to say members here should or should not buy from SaberCycle, that is their personal choice but if you are a member of this family and you let a vendor do this to your brothers and sisters, what kind of a family member are you really? What DO you actually stand for?
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Rudy
'89 GL1500K 96k - http://goldwingtech.info
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SaberCycle: The lesson that just keeps on getting learned.
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Putt N along
Senior Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 12:48 am | 82nd Post |
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She wrote her one and only post a bit over two days ago. Has anyone received any type of any response if they've asked a question of a ebay item? Would be interesting to know if she's polite at all.
I've never bought anything from her, never asked a question of her, but I'd be leery for now about buying from her. I agree with others who say she wouldn't be on here with an apology if it wasn't hurting her business.
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Putt N along
Senior Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 12:52 am | 83rd Post |
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Silverfox wrote:
Key to her poor response was to blame a male employee, when quite clearly staed in the resposes that folks have received, it was a woman who sent them.
Could it be that she's a whacko with multiple personalities ? and she really believes it was a male who sent them. Last edited on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 12:26 pm by wexy
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maplewingnut
Very Active Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 03:21 am | 84th Post |
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GSMacLean wrote: I read this thread last night, and thought I would sit and think about it before whipping off a response.
First, to qualify my statements, I will state that I have never purchased anything from Saber Cycle, so I cannot state an opinion over the quality of their products. I did however once send a message asking a question about an item they had for sale on eBay, and received one of the well-known personally insulting nastygrams in response, which drove me to go purchase the same item from a different vendor.
I find it interesting that her first couple of paragraphs choose to attack the sabercyclesucks.com web site, she used phrases like "glaring inaccuracies", "bungled presentation" and "no structure to check the veracity of statements." It may be just me, but from reading that web site, it seems that the vast majority of the content of that web site was taken from forum discussions here and from other Goldwing sites. The messages weren't taken out of context, they were simply lifted and re-posted. When you have people posting stories describing their experiences dealing with Saber Cycle, including posting the actual content of emails received from Saber Cycle, I find that hard to understand how that can be construed as "glaring inaccuracies" etc.
The next paragraph she states how "Sales have increased dramatically from last year..." and goes on to describe how things are getting better. This is a theme that is commonly echoed in several of the "nastygram" emails that people have posted from Saber Cycle. They repeatedly state how their business is booming, surrounded by insults and crudities.
The next paragraph someone already mentioned - she states that they are a "favorite with many around the world"...yet they ship only within the continental US!
Being an online retailer myself, I can empathize with her statements regarding eBay and PayPal fees. I sell a great deal of merchandise primarily through eBay. I used to sell records (i.e. vinyl, music) through eBay, but took my catalog off of eBay because with seller and PayPal fees, it simply became uneconomical to utilize them anymore. I have no problem believing her reasons for not accepting PayPal.
At the end, she goes on in a bizarre story about someone who is in pain after a son's suicide and so on. She then says she is mortified to learn of "recent outbursts". I have three things to say about this:
1. The outbursts are far from "recent". Looking back in the archives even just on this site, this sort of customer abuse has been going on for YEARS.
2. Reading through the emails received from Saber Cycle and posted here by many different people, it is quite clear that the person writing them is female. This does not jive with the story she posted in this message.
3. Most importantly: I don't care about problems she has with an employee. Having owned several small business myself over the past 20 years, I have had to deal with problem employees. Firing employees who are causing problems is a fact of life. As the owner of her business, SHE IS RESPONSIBLE for the actions of her employees. If her employee is sending messages on behalf of the company, it is the COMPANY who is insulting its customers, not the employee. She says that she has "confronted the behavior many times in the past." So she is aware that this sort of nonsense has been going on over and over again - yet she has not done anything successful to stop it. She does not take the obvious action (termination) to stop it. In my eyes, this makes her as responsible as if she were writing the messages herself. I can tell you, if that were my employee, they would have been fired long ago, after the very first offense, regardless of their personal circumstances. Customers are a company's most prized asset - you NEVER do anything to insult or drive them away. In the end, her company's internal problems should not be affecting the way they deal with their customers. In this case, it is affecting them DIRECTLY, in a VERY negative way.
In my own opinion, and again, this is just my opinion based upon what I read in her message, I suspect the following:
- It has been Ms. Krizek writing the "nastygram" emails all along. There are simply too many similarities in her message here with the emails posted from Saber Cycle victims. Instead of an apologetic tone, she repeatedly goes on the defensive and offensive, defending her business practices, and those of her employees - just as the writer of the nastygrams does. There is no mystery employee who she has been "protecting."
- The posting of her "apology" message here (which really isn't an apology - she makes some excuses and defends her business practices, but doesn't actually say she's going to do anything about the problem) is simply a business move, to try to temper the opinions of a large group of enthusiasts who are her businesses' core target market.
My suggestions to her would be:
1. Write a real business apology - one that identifies and admits the shortcomings and problems her business is experiencing in the eyes of those who matter - her customers - and then states exactly the actions she is undertaking to rectify them.
2. Enact a policy that all communications coming from her company have the writer identified (i.e. SIGN THE EMAILS!), so that there is a true record of just who is destroying her company's image in the eyes of those who matter - her customers.
3. Enact a policy of listening to those who matter - her customers, and assume they are correct unless they know otherwise, in which case they should supply them with the proper information, or make it available on their web site. Their current policy of assuming the customer is wrong is one of the contributatory factors to the poor public image that has resulted in web sites such as sabercyclesucks.com.
...and that's all I have to say about that. 
I have also given this matter some thought. Like GS, I have never used Saber cycle. I might have but for the opinion circulated on this forum.
Like GS, I thought about this before commenting. My conclusions are exactly in line with GS's, however I would not have done her the benefit of outlining recommendations quite so clearly.
I suspect that she has been the poisoned pen behind so many examples of vile correspondance. I suspect that she has a problem. Perhaps she is the 'employee' that she claims to want to shelter. If that is the case, she should go get professional help. She obviously has a potentially hugely successful business. If she doesn't do some effective root cause analysis and take appropriate action, she is going to see it go down the pan.
Last edited on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 06:05 pm by maplewingnut
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LarryG
Active Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 04:05 am | 85th Post |
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If we're voting on this...
Put my Vote on the side of the "Nope I ain't buyin it" crowd. Too many contradictary statements topped with a defensive/offensive "we're still prospering despite your comments" attitude, sets a tone far too unsavory for any sort of apology to be considered valid or sincere.
Given the other options available and the fact that life is far to short to deal with folks like this...I think I'll give my hard earned money to those that actually want it.
LarryG
Last edited on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 04:09 am by LarryG
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LarryG
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'84 250R
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Gofastandfalldown
Very Active Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 05:17 am | 86th Post |
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Google: Diane Krizek hmmm........
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1978 GL1000
"Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy" George Carlin R.I.P.
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MADDOG355
Very Active Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 05:23 am | 87th Post |
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MDKramer wrote:
Now, before another person hits their keys to post something negative toward Diane or Saber Cycle (or even me for saying this), put yourself in her shoes.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, all I'm saying is maybe those opinions can be tempered a little...not be so negative. The problems can be addressed in a positive feedback manner, with no name calling, no threats, no blatant disrespect, no accusations...Just state your problem factually and ask politely that it be addressed.
MDKramer, I hope nothing I posted was taken personally, As nothing was ment toward you, Or any other member.
As for the opinions of some of our members, From what I have read of the emails "someone" from saber sends I can't blame them.
Last edited on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 05:29 am by MADDOG355
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Gofastandfalldown
Very Active Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 05:55 am | 88th Post |
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Why are we surprised that she would send such an email?
Look at the facts.
The purpose of this forum is for Gold Wing enthusiasts to share information and experiences. This would include sharing info on suppliers and dealers---the good and the bad ones.
So along comes Saber Cycle with a track record of abuse towards its own customers. Ms. Krizek repeatedly taunts her customers and arrogantly believes she is too big to get hurt by anyone. Eventually there are enough negative comments toward Sabre Cycle on this forum that she finally clues in to all the potential revenue she is losing out on because of our furum members boycotting her business.
Her email is not an apology at all. It is a blatant attempt to 'qualify' her actions so she can win over the members of this forum and get more revenue. She ain't stupid! This is a con job.
Her behaviour (and she can't blame it on her 'employees") has been going on for years. This isn't about one isolated incident---that would be easy to forgive. All of those emails that members have posted here do a good job of documenting a consistent history of arrogance and abuse.
Sorry, but actions speak louder than words.
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1978 GL1000
"Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy" George Carlin R.I.P.
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Silverfox
Forum Diplomat
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 07:36 am | 89th Post |
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Just to go back to this "employee with issues"...... surely, if it were true that this one individual were causing so much damage and with the business expanding as she describes, the employee would very swiftly be moved to another department, where they weren't in contact with the public directly, like the packing or shipping department. Why would you allow an employee to continue to send abusive emails to customers and potential customers over a number of years? No, I am sorry this doesn't make sense to me? 
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WingerDave
Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 09:31 am | 90th Post |
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Why don't we (This site's members and those over at Naked Goldwings for example) buy her out?
There is obviously more business acumen here than at Saber, and it would be a fantastic source, like having your own well stocked garage 
Dave
Last edited on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 12:25 pm by wexy
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Bernieswing
Very Active Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 10:04 am | 91st Post |
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If I had my way I wouldn't have let Diane Krizek post that begrudging apology at all. It looked fine at first until I read it a couple of times. Her company had upset many wing owners both here and everywhere else and giving her a soapbox to taunt us is rubbing salt into wounds.
I will say that we shouldn't use insulting language in posts as it makes us stoop to Sabers level and will make us look just as bad. We can critiscise without bad language or name calling, let Saber be the king of that type of language. If the axeman or other mods is out there then please prune out any bad language if you see it.
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GL1200 Aspencade, blue 1986
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dean_3326
Senior Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 11:26 am | 92nd Post |
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Rudy wrote: And I agree with SB in SC.
Ditto.
One letter of apology or excuses does not make up for many rude letters sent to customers over a long period including lots of folks on this forum. If she lets a employee go off on customers for years then what does that say about her?
Gofastandfalldown wrote: Google: Diane Krizek hmmm........
After looking on Google it looks like she is a politician too. So she must be honest.
 
Dean
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Riding Motorcycles For over 53 Years
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Thank you Lord for all my blessings.
84 Interstate with Ventu Craft Trailer
01 XR400R SOLD too old to cut the mustard anymore.
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Wendell
Guru
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 11:30 am | 93rd Post |
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rcmatt007 wrote: all I can say is that when they had a problem with my credit card I recieved a very rude response, calling me a crook, and telling me never to try to do business with them again
My experience was very similar to rcmatt007. i placed an order on Saber Cycle's website and used my credit card. About a week later, I received a letter from them saying that there was a problem with my credit car and that I had to send them cash from now on because they would not accept any credit cards from me from that point onward. I contacted my CC company and was told that it was declined because the expiration date year was incorrect. Huh.... I must have forgotten to un-highlight the drop down box in that area before I scrolled down the page.
So, instead of contacting me through email to say there was a problem, they actually spent time to HAND WRITE the unfriendly letter and then spent the money to send this letter. Huh, and they're worried about fees. Bad custom service is bad customer service. I worked in the food service when I was younger and if the manager heard or was made aware of an employee giving poor customer service, they were given one chance to improve. One more problem and they were gone, problems or not. There are way to many similar incidents of customer service neglect to dismiss the complaints. I will go out on a limb here guess that Saber Cycle does not accept Paypal or Credit Cards is because people were filing disputes to recoup their money.
I have boycotted McDonalds for almost one year now because of poor customer service. I have seen and heard everything from employees behind the counter loudly complaining about their life in detail to another saying his would come over the counter to "kick your a**" for saying his order was wrong. I am only one person, but, as Saber Cycle is finding out, just one unhappy customer turns into many. Diane claims business is up. If that is true, then why even bother posting here? Sounds like they are feeling the pain.
Now, I must apologize to all of the Wendell's in the world who own wings. I would not be surprised if they were denied service because of their name and my posting. 
Wendell
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AZgl1500
Moderator
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 11:31 am | 94th Post |
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I'm pretty much convinced that I will never, ever, order anything from the gal.
I just don't need the grief in my life. Too many other choices where they appreciate you.
Places like Randall who's organization takes the time to send me 3 emails letting me know the status on a back ordered product. And that was just for a small diaphragm for the fuel shutoff valve on my 1500.
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John
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Whiskerfish
Senior Guru
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 02:35 pm | 95th Post |
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AZgl1500 wrote: I'm pretty much convinced that I will never, ever, order anything from the gal.
I just don't need the grief in my life. Too many other choices where they appreciate you.
Places like Randall who's organization takes the time to send me 3 emails letting me know the status on a back ordered product. And that was just for a small diaphragm for the fuel shutoff valve on my 1500.
Well I have know Randall for several years now and a LOT of Business's could learn customer service from him. He had that problem with a substandard part earlier this year and many many folks received a replacement at no cost without question. As far as I am concerned there are None Better. As long as there are people like that out there why bother with the idiots.
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Whiskerfish
1978/9 Nekid Streetfighter 50k miles
1978 Dressed Daily Rider w/150k plus miles
1976 Windjammer dressed SOLD
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1975 Nekid 22k miles running, Currently use as engine test stand
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MDKramer
Moderator
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 03:15 pm | 96th Post |
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MADDOG355 wrote: MDKramer, I hope nothing I posted was taken personally, As nothing was ment toward you, Or any other member.
As for the opinions of some of our members, From what I have read of the emails "someone" from saber sends I can't blame them.
Oh, not at all Maddog, not to worry. All I was really trying to do was cool things down a bit and keep this from becoming nothing more than a flaming free-for-all directed at Diane and Saber.
I guess what I was trying to point out more than anything is that alot of people here can tell you that nothing got solved when they received nastygrams from Saber. So if people wanted something to be solved WITH Saber, they needed to take the higher road and use an approach different from the one they received from Saber to start the problem.
Mike
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Mike Kramer
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Hickey
Active Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 03:25 pm | 97th Post |
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BINGO !! MDKramer
Hickey
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Tubawinger
Active Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 03:58 pm | 98th Post |
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Rudy wrote: How hard do you think that good will recovery would have been if it had been you that had damaged it in the first place rather than the PO?
That's a good point, Rudy. If I were the type of person to have earned that reputation in the first place, I probably wouldn't be the type of person to be able to fix the problems.
I found her post to be uncomfortably defensive of her employee's bad behavior, and her overall tone to be condescending. Not many sucessful people that I know communicate that way, but there are few who do. I don't plan to buy from her in the near future, but I will see if she's serious about changing her business practices. At this point, though, if I need a part, I'll go through Randall, and for shiny bits, well, who needs 'em anyway!
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*thunk* Oops. It slipped.
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Rudy
Forum Ferret
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 04:38 pm | 99th Post |
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| Exactly.
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Rudy
'89 GL1500K 96k - http://goldwingtech.info
http://glhelpers.com/members
http://RudysBackyard.com/
http://annualssgwrally.us/coppermine/
SaberCycle: The lesson that just keeps on getting learned.
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pmuscutt
Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 04:44 pm | 100th Post |
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Sounds too me like the way she runs the business is about 1/2 step up from all the Craigslist scam artists pfishing for suckers. The fact that they don't take Paypal or credit card purchases smells because with a credit card or Paypal purchase's you have resolutions at your disposal. Obviously there is no intent on changing her business practices. I personally have no need to purchase from her business and I would strongly encourage everyone to boycott and never under any circumstances buy from Sabercycle. You've heard of "Let sleeping dogs lie" well if her business is growing like she claims then why wake the dog by doing damage control like others have pointed out. Make no mistake, she is feeling the affects. Everyone just needs to follow through with the knockout blow.
PatrickLast edited on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 04:45 pm by pmuscutt
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Patrick
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Retired USN Photographer
'91 Goldwing 1500
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