| Big Brother Honda..received ths yet??? | Rate Topic |
| Moderators: redbaron, MDKramer, Flyone, AZgl1500 | Page: 1 2 3 4 5   |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 05:13 am | 1st Post |
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Is in their bad boy books Join the fight Complain to mother honda!!! Hello, You're receiving this message because you are a registered user of http://goldwingdocs.com We have recently received a request from Honda asking that we remove virtually all of the downloadable Honda manuals from our web site. This includes almost every manual on the site - the majority of which are over twenty years old, and are not available for sale anywhere, at any price. It includes Owners Manuals for 20 and 30 year old motorcycles - motorcycles whose manuals have long since been lost, and whose new owners come to goldwingdocs.com, looking for information to safely operate their motorcycles. While we don't agree with Honda's decision, we will be complying with Honda's request shortly. We would however, like to ask a quick favor of you. We would ask you to contact Honda Motorcycle, and let them know just what you think of this decision. There are over ten thousand registered users who have benefited from goldwingdocs.com - if even a slight fraction of those users contact Honda Motorcycle, it may have an effect on their decisions going forward, and their support of classic Honda motorcycles. We appreciate it, and so do all the owners of classic Goldwings, who have come to rely on goldwingdocs.com for their safety and maintenance information! Here is their contact information: Motorcycle Division American Honda Motor Co., Inc. Mail stop: 100-4C-7B P.O. Box 2200 Torrance, CA 90509-2200 Telephone: (866) 784-1870 Thanks for helping out! Keep the shiny side up! Attachment: f5X8UhqrY7gCkLvEYeLYkarwVfqz.jpg (Downloaded 559 times)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 12:35 pm | 2nd Post |
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Quoted from GL1200goldwings.com Whether it would fall under this category I wouldnt know. OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've checked into the federal "fair use" doctrine (used all the time by universities) wherein if commercial copyrighted material is used solely for educational purposes and not sold the copyright holder has nothing to say about how it is used. "Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair: 1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes 2. The nature of the copyrighted work 3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole 4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work" That is straight from the U.S. Government's Copyright Office. I would reply to Honda that these materials are soley posted for the educational purposes of the membership, and no fees are charged for their use. [Then tell them to get stuffed! oops! That would be in Australia] Well maybe a more diplomatic approach would work. What if permission from Honda is formally requested -- citing the four principles of Section 107 -- citing fair use to reproduce their out of date and out of print material for educational purposes? Then see whether the pointy headed Honda suits see this as a good will gesture opportunity. [If Honda really becomes Fascistic they can demand that ANY photo of bikes manufactured by them be removed from the Web site! How would you like that?!] ++++++++++++++++++++++++ The U.S. Copyright Office concludes under Section 107: "When it is impracticable to obtain permission, use of copyrighted material should be avoided unless the doctrine of fair use would clearly apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine if a certain use may be considered fair nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney. FL-102, Revised May 2009"
____________________ While any advice given may concern earlier or later models it specifically pertains to the 1985 Aspencade. Click here for another place for 1200's to gather! |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 01:10 pm | 3rd Post |
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I could see Honda requesting those documents that they still have for sale be removed. I'm a bit surprised that they are requesting the out of print documents to be removed. Do copyrights apply to out of print documents? Does Honda think if I can't get the manuals for the older bikes that I will go out and buy a new bike? If so, maybe it's time to go test ride that Victory Vision 
____________________ Main rides in order by year: 03 Honda XR650L 99 Shadow VLX (VT600C) 84 GL1200 Aspencade |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 01:14 pm | 4th Post |
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I received this note also. Honda doesn't publish their own manuals anyway. Are they going to tell Clymer they can't do this anymore? I don't think so. They are really way out a line on this one.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 01:24 pm | 5th Post |
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Yeh, another recipient of the news. Gee, I wonder if outlets like Bike Bandit and others that have the micro-fiche files on the web are still paying royalties to Mother Honda ???  " Big Red", your lawyers and bean-counters really suck. As a company you've taken the term A$$ Hole to an entirely new level... 
____________________ For those who've never fought for it, the price of freedom shall never be known.... "Shooter" 1986 Interstate |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 01:56 pm | 6th Post |
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The original Honda lawyer letter, and the reply sent to them, can be seen here: To Whom It May Concern, Honda produces and distributes motorcycle service manuals for which Honda owns a U.S. copyright. See 17 U.S.C. § 106. Indeed, the first page of the [highlight= #88ffff]manual clearly displays a copyright notice. We have learned that these links and their members have - without authorization from Honda - copied Honda's service/repair manuals and are offering them on http://www.goldwingdocs.com. This conduct directly infringes Honda's exclusive rights under the Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. § 101 et seq., and must cease immediately. Accordingly, Honda hereby demands that goldwingdocs remove or disable access to the following materials: (list of almost all manuals here) Regards, Dyan Finguerra-DuCharme | WilmerHale 399 Park Avenue New York, NY 10022 USA +1 212 937 7203 (t) +1 212 230 8888 (f) dyan.finguerra-ducharme@wilmerhale.com
____________________ http://www.goldwingdocs.com Read my illustrated How To guides! |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 02:05 pm | 7th Post |
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Thanks GS.
____________________ Alan Fitzpatrick. |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 02:30 pm | 8th Post |
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I've already written my letter to Honda this morning - this goes in the mail today. ---------------------snip------------------------------ RE: Online Manual Availability I've been made aware from the site-owners of GoldwingDocs.com that a request has been made to remove their copies of Honda manuals from their site. While I understand the position of American Honda and the consequences of copyright infringement, I propose that this is not in the best interest of Honda or the consumer. Internet sites like GoldwingDocs.com have become a go-to resource for people wising to restore the classic and coveted early Goldwings. These early bikes represent some of the pinnacle achievements of AHMC in the 1970s and 1980s and owners take pride in keeping these bikes on the road side-by-side with their modern motorcycles. AHMC should be proud of the engineering feats that were constructed over 20 years ago, and allow the owners of these motorcycles the ability to gather information for the purposes of proper maintenance and care. Without these examples of AHMC on the roads, Honda's lengthy heritage would be, in some way, lessened. And this very heritage is a strong influence in the marketplace for new purchases. AHMC should not want to see this resource and reputation diminished. A vast majority of the manuals available for download at GoldwingDocs.com are no longer available from AHMC, or the dealership network, at any price. Thus GoldwingDocs.com is not competing with AHMC for business, but instead is a partner in driving business for vehicles, parts and service, old and new. I ask that you please take in mind these issues and reconsider allowing GoldwingDocs.com to continue to host these materials for the Honda Motorcycle owner. Your support of this issue would prove to the world that Honda values its lineage and brings confidence to the owners of vehicles, both old and new. An owner of Multiple Honda Goldwings, old and new. Russell Beard
____________________ Rusty. Enthusiast of things that ride, drive & fly. No one had seen Tigger since the 6:10 Southbound Freight. He was last heard to say: "Tiggers can do anything!" |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 03:49 pm | 9th Post |
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Well I am shocked  Should we mention that their Honda dealers will not work on Wings over 10 years old???If the manuals are gone, the Honda dealer won't work on them, what is a person to do??? Go buy a new Wing??? I think not after the "support" Honda has shown. I am severly disappointed in them. 
____________________ Bill 2012 GL-1800C Delivered 5/28/11 2001 Cycle Mate CM2000 LTD Trailer (Of course, fastest color) Dual Member of Bailey Lodge #146, Greer, SC and Northstar Lodge #168, Wichita, KS 2B1ASK1, Midian Shriner, AOPA, Wild Rhinos, KANWINGS, Kansas Patriot Guard, Masonic Goldwings http://www.kanwings.com http://masonicwings.com/forums Photo & Video Site: http://www.wildrhinos.leehoan.com/ For NASSIR News: http://www.nassir-news.com Let it be known that Flyone, having sworn that he has kissed the Cod, downed the Screech, and shouted "Long may your big jib draw!" is now considered an Honarary Newfoundlander. "Stray Newfie" loves the rock!!! "Jus Remember, wherevers ya go, der yous are." "Father Duck" RIP Pop Fly |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 03:56 pm | 10th Post |
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This kind of "heavy handedness" is clearly unnecessary and certainly doesn't endear Honda to its consumers. Would it not have been a better approach to contact the owner of the site and inquire as to the use of the documents in question? THEN decide what their approach would be. Instead of putting the legal beagles on the case? I love my GW, but I cannot tolerate the actions of the manufacturer of the machine. My letter to them will be in the mail today.
____________________ Mark 1984 GL 1200 Aspencade "To live you must be willing to die" Amir Vahedi My father gets smarter everyday that he's gone. "I worried that I had no shoes until I saw a man that had no feet" |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 04:51 pm | 11th Post |
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Folks do like I did..burn the telephone lines up to Honda and the Lawyer.. E-mailing the Lawyer is a good one. These cretin greedy lawyers have created a crap storm for Honda.
____________________ Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time. |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 04:52 pm | 12th Post |
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Actually I test rode that Cross country cruiser version and it is one sweet ride.
____________________ Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time. |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 05:32 pm | 13th Post |
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I think it is pure crap by Honda also......BUT.....they do have a legal right to demand removal of the manuals. ALL the GL manuals are for sale (reprints of course) at http://www.helminc.com which pays MotherHonda to be an authorized reprinter. 
____________________ Snorebaby (Doug) and Snorebabe (Michele)  '90 GL1500SE "Pearl"'86 CMX450 Rebel '85 GL1200 LTD----> SOLD Patriot Guard Riders #137660 http://www.patriotguard.org http://serrasj.com http://GoldwingTech.info Weekender Roadbiker (CJ's Classification) |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 05:34 pm | 14th Post |
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Snorebaby wrote: I think it is pure crap by Honda also......BUT.....they do have a legal right to demand removal of the manuals. He's lucky Honda isn't taking him to court. I still think he could make an arrangement with the big dog.
____________________ Rudy RudysProducts Info: Due to recent declining health, I have decided to pass Rudy's Products on to a nearby friend who will be trained to do it right. As a result, product availability will be hit or miss during the transition, both at the web store and at Cyclemax. SmartLights are discontinued with the possibility of occasional small batches being made if there is interest. The transition will be gradual and I will continue to make items as I am able. Please expect extended delivery times. If you have a specific need, please let me know and I will attempt to accommodate you. I thank you all for your friendship, support and loyalty. |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 06:22 pm | 15th Post |
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If anybody has a link to a free download of a Valkyrie Service Manual, I would like to make a disc before they get shut down.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 06:28 pm | 16th Post |
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Well... Legality is not the issue with me on bikes that Honda no longer supports, nor should it be with Ma Honda if she had a brain in her corporate head! The questions for Ma Honda should be these: 1. "How much money are we likely to make selling manuals for 10 to 35 year old motorcycles via Helms (or any other approved vendor)?" 2. "How much ill will and disappointment are we willing to endure from the Goldwing rider community (our target market) to obtain the meager amount of money acquired by those sales?" Like I said, if anybody with a brain exists at Ma Honda, their answer to both of those questions would be "not very much". The next thing that person with a brain would say is, "You know, our dealers won't work on Goldwings over 10 years old, so their owners are pretty much on their own to do service and maintenance. Since we (Ma Honda) won't support the GL1500 and earlier model riders anymore, we surely should not get in the way of their own diligent efforts to maintain and ride our products. Not for a couple of bucks!" MORONS ! ! ! Penny wise but pound foolish ! ! !  Last edited on Tue Mar 9th, 2010 06:29 pm by WingMan71 ____________________ Bob 2006 Arctic White GL1800 1987 Black/Grey GL1200 Aspencade U.S. Navy SWO (1967-1976) |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 06:47 pm | 17th Post |
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I'm not surprised the warning finally came. It's too bad they have to go but they are not lost since I'm sure many downloaded them. At least no one has the RIAA breathing down their neck for using Napster or some other peer to peer file sharing. As for copyrights being valid on out of print books, you can't print or publish an author's novel or text book whether or not it's currently in print either. There's no reason to blame Honda, all companies will protect their property which is what most of these manuals are, Honda paid to produce them, published them and own them. Same goes for Clymer or Haynes for instance. They either have to write their own copy or buy it from the manufacturer.
____________________ If you can't ride, fly or sail it, why bother? 2001 Goldwing 1800 Paul W. |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 06:58 pm | 18th Post |
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If one po'ed owner of an older wing, decides not to buy a gl1800, but instead go to a competitor, how much money does Mother Honda lose in the initial sale and subsequent service on that bike? Compare that loss for a single irate biker to the gain they will get for the exclusive rights for their manuals...then multiply the loss by 5, 10, 100 amd compare Dumb move by Honda, especially with all the hot water the number #1 japanese car maker is in right now..it could very easily turn in to anti-japan mentality.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 07:09 pm | 19th Post |
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I figured it would come to this. Mother is only in it for the money. I'm getting more and more interested in a Triumph, or some such. I don't like the way mother treats it's "old" customers. No support on 10 yr old machines, no parts for older machines, terrible dealers, (for the most part), and definitely acquiring the normal business ethic, called greed!! I'm hoping more and more that they get aced out by Yamaha, Suzuki, Triumph, Victory. Anyone ! At least one can get manuals for them. I don't dispute the fact that mother owns the material, and they have every right to get them off the net. But, I think this is a pretty petty move on their part. They may not have become too irate about the site, but the 1500 and 1800 manuals may have pushed them over the edge. Since, they are still current, and being bought on a regular basis. Last edited on Tue Mar 9th, 2010 07:14 pm by Oregonwinger ____________________ Knicknacks by Eric of Holland (former LTD rider) 80 Int., 85 Int., 85 LTD, 90/2000 1500, and now a 2006 Nav, Cabernet Red |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 07:11 pm | 20th Post |
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Honda really doesn't have a choice, if they have a contract with Helm Inc. to reprint their manuals. BTW Helm is a great source for 'Wing owners to get owner's and service manuals brand new for less than old used ones go on eBay. Helm sells these manuals for a lot less than most auto and bike manufacturers do.
____________________ If you can't ride, fly or sail it, why bother? 2001 Goldwing 1800 Paul W. |
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