| Single Carb Conversions for 4 Cylinder Goldwings |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 04:57 am | 121st Post |
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Broke Winger wrote: There was a thread on this forum from a guy who built one out of PVC, he painted it blue. I'll try to find it. one of the links I posted earlier mentions the Blue Painted manifold. i will look also. Single Carb Conversions Single Carb Conversion for GL1100 http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/76428.html I believe the blue PVC was mentioned in this one. GL1100 changing to a 2 barrel carburetor? http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/76443.html
____________________ ~John |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 06:59 am | 122nd Post |
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Anyway... trying to get back on thread... DO yo have to get the inlet manifold for the single carb conversion made up.. or does some one sell them prefabbed which will accept the VW carb set up???
____________________ Too old to die young!! |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 07:16 am | 123rd Post |
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Back to the PVC manifold... With a lot of time put into one, I could see it looking real nice, and performing just fine. I would shoot for the LD design myself (Sorry LD, but it's a good design... I sure don't want to take anything from your efforts) versus the Type 3 Manifold design. You could go over to 'The Samba' and find rebuildable PICT carbs on the cheap, and I mean cheap. I've seen as low as $10 rebuidable and about $25-30 usable. If you look at manifold construction from a design and evaluation point of view, would this not make a somewhat suitable material and approach for taking it from paper to production? Modeling with PVC for a manifold would be inexpensive and practical. I think one would last for quite some time. I'm all for someone making their own stuff, whether it looks good or not, works or not, has approval or not. 'Cause when the sh1t hits the fan and your relying on your know-how using nothing, I want that person on my team. Last edited on Mon Sep 21st, 2009 04:36 am by CaptainMidnight85 ____________________ "They're gonna make it look like suicide." Hunter S. Thompson, one day before his death. |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 07:39 am | 124th Post |
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http://www.htc.net/~squirts/plastic.htm http://www.nakedgoldwings.com/gallery/album339 http://louisville.craigslist.org/mcy/1381717675.html
____________________ P.G.R. Member ID: 88374 http://www.patriotguard.org Our Soldiers are what make us strong. Without them there would be no USA. |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 03:33 pm | 125th Post |
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Phenolic Plastics.... Used by many auto manufacturers for their manifolds. Some parts just don't need to be metallic. I like this idea more and more. Last edited on Sun Sep 20th, 2009 03:34 pm by CaptainMidnight85 ____________________ "They're gonna make it look like suicide." Hunter S. Thompson, one day before his death. |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 05:39 pm | 126th Post |
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Obviously some really like the stock carbs, mine have been reliable for 215,000 miles and 32 years and still have the factory dabs of paint on the synch adjustment screws. Others really like the single carb setup. What I have not seen yet but would be interesting is somebody inventing a simple, reliable fuel injection setup for the old wings.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 05:55 pm | 127th Post |
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sfruechte wrote: What I have not seen yet but would be interesting is somebody inventing a simple, reliable fuel injection setup for the old wings.86 SEi will be cheaper than any older Wing converted to fuel injection.
____________________ 76, 83, 84I,84A, 86 SEi Wings are gone, now 75, 84A I have to stop buying dead old Wings...  ignition switch for $8, solenoid for $10, fuel pump for $30 still work fine! |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 06:24 pm | 128th Post |
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newbiker wrote: sfruechte wrote:What I have not seen yet but would be interesting is somebody inventing a simple, reliable fuel injection setup for the old wings.86 SEi will be cheaper than any older Wing converted to fuel injection. Holley use to make (and may still) a throttle body injection setup for 8 cylinders. IIRC they also made it for 6 cylinders. I had one on a V8 International Scout I ran mostly off road rock crawling. That injection was amazing. You could tweak all throttle curves from idle mixture to full bore on the fly with a little control box. It cost about $300 back in the early 90's, I later sold it for $100 after I totalled the driveline in a remote location in the mountains and left the truck there.  A setup like this could be an option if they were available for a 4 cylinder.
____________________ 1983 GL1100 Interstate and 1983 Interstate going naked http://classicgoldwings.com A Honda Goldwing GL1100 Specific discussion forum. |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 08:19 pm | 129th Post |
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Posted this under " Single Carb Conversion For GL1100" about 4 pgs back,.. This is my story why I converted at the time whenI bought my Bike,..........That's great if you don't have to mess at any time with your carbs or anyone else for that matter!! But at the time I bought my GL (that I so dearly wanted for years but couldn't afford a new one), I finally found one that had set for a period of time and NO Goldwing Dealer would even look at my carbs (10 yr. old bike rule) ! And also at that time, I didn't have the knowledge to rebuild mine but took the dive and tried !! That turned out to be the most expensive thing and scarey thing at the time to do with results that where so discouraging, I was about ready to give up!!! !! That's why when I was able to purchase the CI set up I jumped at it and since then I have learned a little more about carbs (just enough to get me in trouble )!!! If I had the information I had back then, that Mr Washington has about rebuilding carbs and maintaining them, I would have keep my OEM's  !! What really bothers me is when we are at least trying to get our bikes back on the road, there's criticism as to how it's done!! This has always been an issue at any site when these type of conversions are addressed!! I understand both the Pro&Cons about not running OEM and I applaud those who have the original carbs and the same for those who have taken the time to create other conversions... That's my story as why I had to do it at the time 10 years ago and just kept the conversion which I still run today...................  Bob
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 08:31 pm | 130th Post |
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The only thing I see about a plastic plenum is no chance of heating it. Also, I have seen posters questioning heating the plenum. Many, many manifolds on cars are heated (not insulated from the engine), some even have water passages though them. I am not planning to heat because of icing, since I live in an area that doesn't have that problem. I want to see what the effect heating the manifold does. Plain and simple. Raymond, the guy I bought the Aspencade from said that the hotter the manifold got, the better his bike ran. It's heated with oil, so it takes longer to heat, and doesn't get as hot. Plus with a valve you can turn down the water, or even turn it off for the summer.
____________________ 1983 GL1100 Interstate Black 1997 GL1500 SE Pearl Sapphire Black |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 09:25 pm | 131st Post |
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Because I have experience fabricating copper I'm thinkin to fabricate the plenum from copper sheets. This way it would be easy for me to make the plenum double walled for a water jacket and copper conducts heat better than plastic. I'm sure it would run fine without heat but a couple mock ups I've read about say after the plenum is hot it runs much better even though the engine has already been at full operating temperature for some time. Some of the pictures I see have pretty long extensions to the intake tubes. What are your guys thoughts on this? It seems to me if the plenum is made larger then the tubes can be kept short as possible which would allow for a larger heated plenum. I might make one up from plastic because it's cheap and easy, at least this way I'll learn from my mistakes and have a better idea of the template for a copper plenum.
____________________ 1983 GL1100 Interstate and 1983 Interstate going naked http://classicgoldwings.com A Honda Goldwing GL1100 Specific discussion forum. |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 09:47 pm | 132nd Post |
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dan filipi wrote:newbiker wrote:sfruechte wrote:What I have not seen yet but would be interesting is somebody inventing a simple, reliable fuel injection setup for the old wings.86 SEi will be cheaper than any older Wing converted to fuel injection. I had a four cylinder escort with a throttle body on it. hated that damn car.
____________________ P.G.R. Member ID: 88374 http://www.patriotguard.org Our Soldiers are what make us strong. Without them there would be no USA. |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 09:50 pm | 133rd Post |
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I say that the coolant passages in V-6 and V-8 manifolds (cast iron or aluminum) are there not to heat the manifold, but to cool it. The LS1 Corvette thermoplastic (Nylon in this case) intake has no provisioning for heat, be it coolant, oil or electric. It's considered beneficial for its light weight and insulating properties from engine heat. Sure, some inline 4 & 6 cylinder engines (diesel I believe) have coolant passages, but again I believe it to be for cooling and not heating. Yes VW uses engine heat for their manifolds and they do intend to heat... These are design issues. Not all older GL intake manifolds will require heat. Knowing what I know now, I would never design and build a manifold for a GL 1000, 1100 or 1200 that uses a plenum. There is no need for one if only using a single carburetor, thus avoiding many problems, plenum icing included. Going directly from the base of the carburetors throat to the runner (as best you can) is the only option I would consider. I had mentioned this early on in posting about LDs set-up. Now with that being said, I have done some experimenting with the heating of my Type-3 manifold. Electric heating. I'll be doing more. I like experimenting. I like the Type-3 design for the GL. I like ANY design for the GL that has the possibility of working. Especially one that got me going when I wasn't. I think PVC manifolds, properly designed, built with solid workmanship and insulated primarily from UV and possibly for temperature affect (if needed in your design) would stand-up well against comparable metal counterparts.
____________________ "They're gonna make it look like suicide." Hunter S. Thompson, one day before his death. |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 09:57 pm | 134th Post |
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dan filipi wrote:Because I have experience fabricating copper I'm thinkin to fabricate the plenum from copper sheets. If I had the skills and resources to do it I'd build a manifold that eliminated the "down tubes" the runners would connect directly to the head and do away with that nearly 90° turn. When you factor in that once hte air/fuel mix goes into the head it's actually draw into the cylinder you have and almost 180° turn. That can not make for a good flow. I think this is the biggest reason Randall's dual webber configuration works so well. I uses a true down draft intake instead of routing the Air/fuel mix through a damn maze. Yeah I guess using side draft carbs for a down draft motor could actually be considered a design flaw.
____________________ P.G.R. Member ID: 88374 http://www.patriotguard.org Our Soldiers are what make us strong. Without them there would be no USA. |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 09:59 pm | 135th Post |
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Broke Winger wrote:dan filipi wrote: The problem with the throttle body is that the cylinder closest to the injector gets the fuel quicker than the cyl furthest away. One of the most uneconomical disasters to be fitted to any modern engine. So the system is always trying to correct and never catches up! The advantage of a true fuel injection system is that each cylinder gets precisely the same exact amount of fuel at the same time when the spark occurs, so you get a clean burn and effective horsepower and all cylinders pulling together.
____________________ <-----------Zoe and Duff Doing nothing is very hard to do ... you never know when you're finished. - Leslie Nielsen RIP Metallic Blue Green is the new Black! |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 10:07 pm | 136th Post |
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Broke Winger wrote:dan filipi wrote: But the carb design was ideal for it's time, nowadays they would have probably used fuel injection but Honda I'm sure played with that aspect of their design at the time and found it was either too expensive or too complicated for an owner or dealership to solve in the field. Electronics were not as reliable in the early 80's as they are today or as cheap to make.
____________________ <-----------Zoe and Duff Doing nothing is very hard to do ... you never know when you're finished. - Leslie Nielsen RIP Metallic Blue Green is the new Black! |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 10:14 pm | 137th Post |
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Its clear I have alot more reading up to do on this. 20 or so years back my brother and I experimented with vaporizing fuel delivery into a V8. We originally got the idea from Pogue who built a vapor system many decades ago. We had the engine idling on pure gasoline vapor delivered directly into the carb throat without any fuel from the carb. The next hurdle was getting the engine to accelerate. It all looked promising but we didnt have any money so we lost interest. From what we learned on that project, one of the most important things to achieve in introducing an air/fuel mixture was to atomize the liquid fuel and get it into a vapor state. Heat was one of the elements needed to do that so it surprises me that a manifold should actually be cooled. One thing worth noting I suppose is the original GL carbs get VERY hot, dunno if that has any merit here though.
____________________ 1983 GL1100 Interstate and 1983 Interstate going naked http://classicgoldwings.com A Honda Goldwing GL1100 Specific discussion forum. |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 10:23 pm | 138th Post |
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There also exist the dual carb route using PVC, but I'll leave that for another thread....
____________________ "They're gonna make it look like suicide." Hunter S. Thompson, one day before his death. |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 10:38 pm | 139th Post |
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wexy wrote:Ok Ok everybody , either talk civil to each other or I will delete the whole shabang , I have already deleted a few posts in this thread and I cannot understand why you all get so worked up about a carb Hey Wexy, don't swing the axey just yet! This is a very informative bunch of posts on a singular approach to a very thorny question as well worth reading.
____________________ <-----------Zoe and Duff Doing nothing is very hard to do ... you never know when you're finished. - Leslie Nielsen RIP Metallic Blue Green is the new Black! |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20th, 2009 10:43 pm | 140th Post |
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I bent the ole Axe's arm and threated him with mayhem if he kills the thread  You guys are doing just fine, keep it straight and on carbs and I will enjoy learning.
____________________ ~John |
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