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The front wheel wobble

4K views 26 replies 20 participants last post by  s-beck2 
#1 ·
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I keep thinking about the guy that posted a while back, he had a violent tank slapper wobble at speed. Fortunately he was able to recover from it but this haunts my mind worrying about it happening to me.

I've done all service to the forks, tire and such but I still get a wobble on decel around 40 mph.

Back when I was rock crawling with 4 wheel drives and sand rails we would put a steering damper on the steering linkage.
A guy I worked for saw this one time on my International Scout and commented that he used to put those on motorcycles, that he never thought to put one on a truck.
It worked great to drastically reduce the effect rocks and the road would have on the steering wheel from pushing the tires where you dont want it to go.

I've never seen a damper recommended here on the forum to help in stopping the wobble.
Why is this?
Could it be nobody has thought of this or am I missing something?

I reed M/C mags and dont see them for sale either. ?

I havent done much research on the subject yet, I thought I'd get some input here first.
 
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#3 ·
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A friend of mine has added a large steering stabilizer to his 1200.But he has a sidecar.It runs from the side car to to a bracket on theforks.I am not sure what promted it,but he would not be without it.
 
#6 ·
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OnaWingandaPrayer wrote:
Back in the day Mother Honda sent them out the door installed on 250 and 305 machines . (CB72CB77 ) I have seen them on crotch rockets . It could very well be what is needed to solve the problem.
I can remember the big black knob on the steering head on a Yamaha scrambler I had. Worked great ...tighten for harder steering and loosen for easier steering. Was great when riding in deep sand.

Since I don't take the wing in deep sand :cheeky1: not sure if it would be much use.

However I have noticed that 41 psi in the front helps to lessen the decel "wobble".

Tim :bat:
 
#7 ·
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I had one on my drag its been so long but I am sure it was fairly easy to install and it helped alot I have thought about it a few times for mt wing also but never followed up on it
 
#8 ·
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I havn't had a Goldwing for very long, but I've been riding and had pretty much most different types and sizes of bikes out there. I say this because, a couple of weeks ago I was traveling south on Rte95 coming up to my exit, at around 85mph. I was in the fast lane, and went around and cleared one more tractor trailer by around 4 or 5 car lenghts, before putting on my blinker and turning into the right lane to go to my exit, about 1/4 mile away. There was a car in front of me with blinker on heading to the same exit so I had to brake some to keep pace with his speed. Well, as soon as I started braking, handle bars started violently going side to side so bad that I thought bike was going to jack-knife and go down. I held the bars with absolutely all of my might and they continued to go side to side. I let off the brakes, and it didn't matter, then reapplied brakes, and it didn't matter. All this time the tractor trailer is bearing down on me and I can hear it trying to slow down and not run over me. I truly thought that I was going to go down and started trying to persuade the bike towards the side of the road where I could let it go and maybe land in the grass, but I couldn't get it to respond at all. Finally scrubbed off enough speed to get down to around 45mph and muscled bars to stay straight.Turnedoff at exit and went few miles to my house with no further problems. I've never had this happen to me before, and hope it never happens again. Bike is in my garage, and I'll be tearing down front end replacing bearings and anything else to repair, including checking swing arm connections, steering neck, etc., whatever it takes to fix this. Mike
 
#10 ·
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AZgl1500 wrote:
Verowing,

Be sure to also check the rear swing arm bushings for side play or looseness. Teacher just had a problem like that and found it in the back of his bike.
Thanks, I'll be sure to check it out. I'll tell you the truth, I hope I find something that is bad, otherwise I won't feel confident riding this bike.Mike
 
#11 ·
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Verowing, I think you and Dan Filipi have different problems. Dan's sounds like the typical Goldwing wobble in the 35-40mph range. That wobble usually doesn't happen unless you go hands free and usually a couple fingers on one grip will prevent it. Normally if the bike is properly set up a new front tire will cure the low speed wobble.


I'm just repeating what others have already mentioned but here it is anyway. If my bike did that it would scare the crap out of me and I wouldn't ride it until I found the cause. At high speeds there's a lot of energy in a fork wobble, lots worse than a slow speed wobble without considering the injury factor. The forces at work are much stronger.


What you're experiencing sounds a lot more serious. First off it would be a good idea to really do a serious checkout of your brake system since that seemed to initiate the excitement. Check for a disk that's warped, a caliper that's frozen. A warped disk normally shouldn't cause what you're describing by itself but in combination with another suspension problem could.

I'd definitely check the steering head bearings for condition, lubrication and proper torque. Check both sets of wheel bearings for free play or roughness. Wheels for runout. Swing arm bearings for condition, torque and lubrication.
 
#12 ·
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I am not sure what model year you have but I remember the early interstates had a head shake that was cured by adding the weight at the headlight on later models. I never had a wobble onmy '80 1100 w Vetter fairing 27yrs agoor my current83A but even a loose swingarm can translate to the front. dj
 
#13 ·
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Hey dan filipi, remember my post on the really bad shaking on the front end and I turned out to be the swing arm pivot bolt? Maybe ???? or a loose bolt at the steering stem or the stem bearings????

Well, I went outside this morning, after it quit raining, with a mind set to take the front end off the bike for the 5th time to replace the triple tree bearings. Then something in my head reminded me of what

Gofastandfalldownwrote:
I'm wondering if the problem is somewhere else entirely, but shows up as a front end problem.
So I decided to first check

Gofastandfalldownwrote:
1. Check that all of the engine mount bolts are in place and tight.
............and they were.

Then onto the

Gofastandfalldownwrote:
2. Check the swing arm for looseness.
.............and there was the problem. The right swing arm allen bolt was not even tight.

Excellent call Gofastandfalldown:clapper::clapper::clapper:!!! Thanks to all......................

~teacher~~~
 
#14 ·
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Yes teach, right after I read that post I went out and checked mine.
It's all good.

I've been thru everything suggested in prior posts over the last couple years being on this forum, including new front and rear tires, but I still get the decel wobble.
It's pretty minor and only happens if I have anything less than a light grip on the bars. Still, this shouldnt happen. I dont think these bikes did that when new.

I'll keep exploring possibilities but I think a definite fix would be a stabilizer.

Where to fit it though. It's going to be a challenge with the fairing and all in the way. Any permanent mounts I need to add to the frame will give me a good excuse to buy a Mig welder. :cooldevil:
 
#15 ·
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ive only had it happen twice. Once at slow speeds on my gl1100 on cold tires and cold pavement and once on a gl1500 I was test riding to buy. Are your wheels and tires balanced and how is your lateral runout.. JB
 
#16 ·
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dan filipi wrote:
I've been thru everything suggested in prior posts over the last couple years being on this forum, including new front and rear tires, but I still get the decel wobble.
It's pretty minor and only happens if I have anything less than a light grip on the bars. Still, this shouldnt happen. I dont think these bikes did that when new.

I'll keep exploring possibilities but I think a definite fix would be a stabilizer.

Where to fit it though. It's going to be a challenge with the fairing and all in the way. Any permanent mounts I need to add to the frame will give me a good excuse to buy a Mig welder. :cooldevil:
As I was cautioned, when I decided to quit throwing money at the "check engine" light on the wife's '01 Chevy Prizm, as other problems would be masked if I ignored the warning light...:shock:

Once the stabilizer is installed it may "mask" other problems as they develop, adding some intangible new layer of danger... :baffled:
 
#17 ·
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Hello, There is a stabalizer for the front end of your wing. Go to your local dealer and ask them for their catalog. They sell them for the 1800's and also for the 1500's. <trying to think of the name of it> but, Honda does sell a stabalizer for the front end wobble on the goldwing. I have friends in my club that have them. I will check tomorrow and try to get back to you on the name of it.
 
#18 ·
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Verowing wrote:
I havn't had a Goldwing for very long, but I've been riding and had pretty much most different types and sizes of bikes out there. I say this because, a couple of weeks ago I was traveling south on Rte95 coming up to my exit, at around 85mph. I was in the fast lane, and went around and cleared one more tractor trailer by around 4 or 5 car lenghts, before putting on my blinker and turning into the right lane to go to my exit, about 1/4 mile away. There was a car in front of me with blinker on heading to the same exit so I had to brake some to keep pace with his speed. Well, as soon as I started braking, handle bars started violently going side to side so bad that I thought bike was going to jack-knife and go down. I held the bars with absolutely all of my might and they continued to go side to side. I let off the brakes, and it didn't matter, then reapplied brakes, and it didn't matter. All this time the tractor trailer is bearing down on me and I can hear it trying to slow down and not run over me. I truly thought that I was going to go down and started trying to persuade the bike towards the side of the road where I could let it go and maybe land in the grass, but I couldn't get it to respond at all. Finally scrubbed off enough speed to get down to around 45mph and muscled bars to stay straight.Turnedoff at exit and went few miles to my house with no further problems. I've never had this happen to me before, and hope it never happens again. Bike is in my garage, and I'll be tearing down front end replacing bearings and anything else to repair, including checking swing arm connections, steering neck, etc., whatever it takes to fix this. Mike
OK I am only speaking on personal experience here so other folks' mileage may vary. However, when faced with a case of "tank slappers" hitting the brakes doesn't work, neither does "wrestling with the bars". Somefolks say grip the tank tight with your legs and use your baody weight. some say use the rear brake.

Persoanlly, I hit the throttle, and hit it hard. For me it works. Damn the torpedos screw the exit just hit the throttle and ride it out. When yer bike goes into tank slappers the front wheel is actually bouncing down the road, first one side the other is hitting the road and being jerked toward going striaght. if the front wheel was maintaining contact with the road going straight is what would happen. But because it's actualy bouncing inertia carries it to the other extreme and on the next bounce it gets jerked the other way again. The reason you are unable to hols the bars straight with your arm strength is the entire weight of the bike is shoving that front wheel back and forth as it bounces. That's why hitting the breaks doesn't help and can in fact make it worse is because you are transfering even more wieght to a wheel that is already bouncing.

Hitting the throttle and hitting it hard transfers the weight to the rear wheel thus reducing the wieght that front wheel is being jerked with making it easier to bring it under control.

Now what bearing a swingarm issue may have on this is beyond me to figure out. if the problem is in the rear end I supose hitting the throttle could make it worse. However I will say that hitting the breaks is definitely going to fry you bacon. So if you are going to slow down do it by hitting hte clutch and leaving the brakes alone, let the bike slow on it's own, even engine braking is going to send more weight to that front wheel.

I truly hope you neve rhave to deal with tank slappers again...but if you do I hope you find something here to be helpful.
 
#19 ·
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dan filipi wrote:
Yes teach, right after I read that post I went out and checked mine.
It's all good.

I've been thru everything suggested in prior posts over the last couple years being on this forum, including new front and rear tires, but I still get the decel wobble.
It's pretty minor and only happens if I have anything less than a light grip on the bars. Still, this shouldnt happen. I dont think these bikes did that when new.

I'll keep exploring possibilities but I think a definite fix would be a stabilizer.

Where to fit it though. It's going to be a challenge with the fairing and all in the way. Any permanent mounts I need to add to the frame will give me a good excuse to buy a Mig welder. :cooldevil:
My brother in law had an early 70's KZ 900. Was a drag bike, it had home made stabilizers on it. For the life of me I can't remember how they were made but it was a pretty simple design. Now that I think of it, I beleive it was only on one side.

If you find anything though please pass on the info, my Wing is topless (no faring) so it's really light in the front and I get some wobble because of it.
 
#20 ·
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Broke Winger, although hitting the thottle in this case was not an option because of traffic in front of me, and no means to steer around them, what you say makes a lot of sense, and I'll remember this, if this ever happens again.Don't mean to hijack this thread, so I'll just say thanks for all the advice. Mike
 
#22 ·
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I'm no rocket surgeon, but 2 things come to mind: resonance and vortices.

Every object has resonance. Under just the right set of conditionsthe objectabsorbs and generates energy in such a way that the 2 combine with each other. I'm not talking about astrology or any kind of hocus pocus here. If you take a long flexible steel rod and swing it back and forth, it will flex in opposite directions as you alternate the swing. At one specific speed, the rod will overflex and possibly even break. That is it's natural resonant frequency.

Here is a good example of resonance:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3mclp9QmCGs

Topic #2: Vortices. If you place a fixed object (a bluff) in a fluid flow stream, the fluid will generate small tornado-like vortices on either side of the bluff as the flow splits to go around the bluff. These vortices alternate from side to side. The speed that they alternate is proportional to the speed of the fluid. This is what makes a flag on a pole flap faster in a high wind than in a slow wind. The pole is the bluff and the vortices pull the flag from side to side.

Combine resonance and vortices and you can see what happened to the Tacoma bridge. At a wind speed of 42 mph, the frequency of the vortices combined with the bridge's natural resonant frequencyand down she came.

So here is my 2-cent theory: At certain road speeds, the vortices generated by the wind hitting the motorcycle's front wheelcombine with the frontfork's natural resonance and cause the front wheel to wobble.

Aircraft designers know all about this. Wings and control surfaces all have a natural resonance that will tear them apart under specific flight conditions. So rather than trying to just stiffen them, they change the natural resonant frequency by changing it's shape a bit or by adding counterweights to the hinged control surfaces so that the resonant frequency occurs outside of the normal operating speeds of the aircraft.

So to get rid of the wobble in the front end of the bike, you have tochange the resonant frequency of the front end. This is done by changingits mass, changing its mechanical shape or changing its aerodynamic shape.

So here is what I suggest: Trystrapping some lead weights to the sides of the forks (temporarily of course). See if this corrects the problem. The other test (as ugly as it may look) is to duct tape a shortpiece of 2x2 along the length of one fork (temporarily)to break up the vortices. At the least, this will confirm or dismiss resonance as the culprit.

Didn't DVJAC say in this thread that Honda added weights to the headlight on early Interstates? That should be the clue.

Anyway, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it!
 
#23 ·
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Gofastandfalldown wrote:
So here is what I suggest: Trystrapping some lead weights to the sides of the forks (temporarily of course). See if this corrects the problem. The other test (as ugly as it may look) is to duct tape a shortpiece of 2x2 along the length of one fork (temporarily)to break up the vortices. At the least, this will confirm or dismiss resonance as the culprit.

Didn't DVJAC say in this thread that Honda added weights to the headlight on early Interstates? That should be the clue.

Anyway, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it!
How much weight should be strapped to the front forks??

Ounces like balancing a tire or pounds like the front fairing weight?

And would the weight need to be distributed equally between each fork?

Riding season is over here for this year but next spring I would like to try this.
 
#24 ·
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I haven't researched it but I remember before I bought my 80 (about '81) I rode an early Interstateand when I rolled off the throttle it had a light headshake. I wouldn't buy it because had I just sold a '79 CBX that tried to kill me twice withabadas. wobble. I later read in a mag. that Honda cured it by adding the weight behind the fairing where the headlight would be. I know my current '83A has the weight. I haven't done the research to document this / just an old man's memory. dj
 
#25 ·
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Please excuse me for the P.S. After the CBX did it the first time I remember I bought a fork brace and read a lot about what to do just in case. The second time I was doing about 40, flipped the bars, rolled out and passed two buddies. I hit the front brake, flipped the bars and snapped back into the lane and rolled on the throttle. It went lock to lock. I followed what I read, stood up and put all of the weight I could get on the front trying to slow the wobble. I got it under control but Ihad crossedall the way across two lanesto the wrong side of the road with the shoulder passing by. I looked up, had head on traffic and there was nowhere else to go. I put it down, highsided, and went through the windshield. Fortunately it was winter and all it did after the long slide in the culvert was tear the clothes off me and bruise me pretty much all over. Standing up, putting your weight on the front and trying to hold on is the only thing I ever heard of. It almost worked for me, just too little and too late. Hopefully you will never need this info. dj
 
#26 ·
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I can only guess about how much weight to add, but if it was me, I would try about 1/2 pound on each side. It's not a permanent solution but will at least help confirm if it is a problem with resonance. I have never experienced the problem myself, but I have read quite a bit on aileron flutter on aircraft and it sure sounds similar.

You could also try adding the weight around the handlebars or top of the forks---just anything to change the natural resonance of the front end.

Let us know how it works.
 
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