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post #71 of 609 (permalink) Old 12-12-2010, 10:27 PM
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SuperSkypilot wrote:
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I Ken Bergen wrote:
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Don't you have that reversed Steve?
If you compress 300cc of fuel/air mixture into a combustion chamber designed for 250cc that would raise the compression ratio not lower it would it not?
If the pistons are domed or dished that would change the chamber volume but I believe all the Goldwing 4's used flat top pistons.
Ken

The issue isn't how many cc the engine is designed for its the volume of the combustion . The 1200 has a smaller combustion chamber, considerably smaller than the 1000. Also both engines have dome top pistons. But the pistons from the 1200 have a smaller dome.

What it amounts to is that your taking a combustion chamber that was design to work with a piston that has a larger dome and putting it on an engine that has smaller domed pistons.
I'm not sure how I'm going to calculate the volume of the domes, but I'll have to figure out something. Perhaps I can do something with modeling clay and I have to rig up a way to cc the heads. I also need to measure the deck height on the 1200 engine. One things for sure just slapping a 1000 head on a 1200 engine isn't the answer.

Steve
The volume of the head's cambers minus the piston's dome will give you the static compression ratio.
However the cam profile and valve over lap will affect the dynamic compression ratio.
How you test the results without a multi-million dollar R&D department I don't know other than trying the combination and seeing what happens.


Advise given here is free and comes with no warranty "Caveat emptor"

Ken.
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post #72 of 609 (permalink) Old 12-12-2010, 10:32 PM
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post #73 of 609 (permalink) Old 12-12-2010, 11:40 PM
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the figures ive seen on combustion area in stock form in ccs is 36.9 for 1200 33 for 1100 and 30.5 for 1000 ...the best thing i get out of all this is from looking at steves pics is ....theres not going to be much problem with to much compression or valve clearense thats all good to me ....after putting 75 cams in my 1100 last week in the 1100 heads and putting about 100 miles on it even thow its cold ....is im on the fast track to doing the 1200 now ....the better flow of the 1000 heads is big over the 1200 and i wouldnt consider them at all ....the only big question to me is rather the 1200 cams with twice the overlap 20 degrees than either 1000 or 1100 cams at 10 degrees the 1200 cams are a milder grind than the early 1000 but the overlap might compete well against the early 1000 cams im thinking of trying the 1200 cams in my 1100 test bike they will go right in the 1100 head and i will proably gravity feed carbs with a full tank of gas to test it seeing there is no fuel pump drive on the 1200 cams....my 82 1100 is my prission tool or caculator so to speak
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post #74 of 609 (permalink) Old 12-13-2010, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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joedrum wrote:
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the figures ive seen on combustion area in stock form in ccs is 36.9 for 1200 33 for 1100 and 30.5 for 1000 ...the best thing i get out of all this is from looking at steves pics is ....theres not going to be much problem with to much compression or valve clearense thats all good to me ....after putting 75 cams in my 1100 last week in the 1100 heads and putting about 100 miles on it even thow its cold ....is im on the fast track to doing the 1200 now ....the better flow of the 1000 heads is big over the 1200 and i wouldnt consider them at all ....the only big question to me is rather the 1200 cams with twice the overlap 20 degrees than either 1000 or 1100 cams at 10 degrees the 1200 cams are a milder grind than the early 1000 but the overlap might compete well against the early 1000 cams im thinking of trying the 1200 cams in my 1100 test bike they will go right in the 1100 head and i will proably gravity feed carbs with a full tank of gas to test it seeing there is no fuel pump drive on the 1200 cams....my 82 1100 is my prission tool or caculator so to speak
where did you get the CC numbers from? They must be net volume in the stock engine. If that's the case they still don't tell us what the net volume in a 1200 engine with 1000 heads on it. And the question still remains whether the 1000 heads actually flow better than the 1200 heads and if that improve flow is enough to make up for what looks to be an obvious loss of compression ratio.

Steve


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post #75 of 609 (permalink) Old 12-13-2010, 12:21 AM Thread Starter
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Can't say I'm the brightest mathematician around but I would figure that if you install the head and turn the piston all the way down. Have the cam disconnected so the valves dont open. Rig up some type of water pitcher with a hose out the bottom. Hook up the hose like a compresion tester to the cylinder. Fill the cylinder with water until it is full and water is in the pitcher and mark the side. Turn the engine till the piston is fully up and remark the pitcher. Then all you need to do is calculate the colume between the two line and you don't need to worry about calculating a dome seems a cylinder of water would be easier to calculate than the dome.

I think you're onto something, I have a 1200 engine that's taken apart I think I can use your method to get the information we need. I'll see if I can set it up tomorrow .

Steve


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post #76 of 609 (permalink) Old 12-13-2010, 05:26 AM
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Ken Bergen wrote:
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How you test the results without a multi-million dollar R&D department I don't know other than trying the combination and seeing what happens.
There are programs available for modeling...

I use Engine Analyzer Pro for my stuff. I had a thread going last yearasking for information that nobody seemed to have. It took quite a while to gather all the data by hand, ...measuring each individual component.

https://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/81471.html
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post #77 of 609 (permalink) Old 12-13-2010, 05:57 AM
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great job steve. very interesting to watch the progress,thanks

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post #78 of 609 (permalink) Old 12-13-2010, 06:32 AM Thread Starter
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I use Engine Analyzer Pro for my stuff. I had a thread going last yearasking for information that nobody seemed to have. It took quite a while to gather all the data by hand, ...measuring each individual component.

https://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/81471.html
Captain

Your post were from before I joined the group and I never saw them. Hopefully we will be able to fill in some more of the blanks . I'm not much of a mathematician but I get frustrated when people aren't willing to look at the whole picture. I have an older Dos program called Desk Top Dynos.

Steve


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post #79 of 609 (permalink) Old 12-13-2010, 06:32 AM Thread Starter
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I use Engine Analyzer Pro for my stuff. I had a thread going last yearasking for information that nobody seemed to have. It took quite a while to gather all the data by hand, ...measuring each individual component.

https://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/81471.html
Captain

Your post were from before I joined the group and I never saw them. Hopefully we will be able to fill in some more of the blanks . I'm not much of a mathematician but I get frustrated when people aren't willing to look at the whole picture. I have an older Dos program called Desk Top Dynos.

Steve


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post #80 of 609 (permalink) Old 12-13-2010, 07:50 AM
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Steve, I saw a post somewhere showing how to simply fill the heads with liquid and use a syringe to suck it out to get the volume on the head. Valves head to be in, and head laying flat on a bench. I think it was on a site for porting heads. I suppose you could do the same with the piston in the cylinder. I am still hoping you can get some definitive answers to this. I remember in some of my earlier reading that the 1200 pistons came above the top of the block a bit, but I remember someone else saying that wasn't true.
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