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Theory of tire tread design

1K views 17 replies 15 participants last post by  jobe05 
#1 ·
According to what I have seen on TV, (engineers talking about tread design), the main purpose of the design is to channel water away from the tire / road contact patch. This sounds logical.
So with that in mind, why do people that mount a rear tire on the front, reverse the rotation direction? That just seems counter productive.:?
 
#2 ·
I guess I'm weird - I put front tires on the front, and rear tires on the rear, in the direction of rotation shown on the sidewalls. I figure I'm not an engineer, tire companies spend tens of millions of dollars to produce the safest, best tires people can afford, and I'm not likely to be able to out-think or out-engineer them.

Water clearing in tire tread design is a complex science, employing computer design, empirical testing, etc.. To think that someone, in their basement, can do better than engineers by putting a rear tire on the front & running it backwards is, well, silly (and probably dangerous), in my view. But then, what do I know?
 
#3 ·
I guess I'm weird - I put front tires on the front, and rear tires on the rear, in the direction of rotation shown on the sidewalls. I figure I'm not an engineer, tire companies spend tens of millions of dollars to produce the safest, best tires people can afford, and I'm not likely to be able to out-think or out-engineer them.

Water clearing in tire tread design is a complex science, employing computer design, empirical testing, etc.. To think that someone, in their basement, can do better than engineers by putting a rear tire on the front & running it backwards is, well, silly (and probably dangerous), in my view. But then, what do I know?
X2! :claps:

The same reasons I use motorcycle tires!


Bill
 
#4 ·
I wonder if the Tread Pattern, or any pattern at all, is even important on the Front tire?

On (narrow) bicycle tires, it's been shown that the tread is irrelivent for purpose of shedding water... the only reason mfrs put tread on a bicycle tire is for "Psychological Purposes", because all us consumers just know that a tire needs tread, hence they can't sell one very well if it's missing that feature.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I wonder if the Tread Pattern, or any pattern at all, is even important on the Front tire?

On (narrow) bicycle tires, it's been shown that the tread is irrelivent for purpose of shedding water... the only reason mfrs put tread on a bicycle tire is for "Psychological Purposes", because all us consumers just know that a tire needs tread, hence they can't sell one very well if it's missing that feature.
I don't think a bicycle has the speed to crate a hydroplane condition. And if so, a narrow tire would cut through, not trap, the water. Sort of like narrow tires cut through snow where as wide tires ride on top of Snow. On a mid size truck that I had, It had factory 235 tires on it. When we had a couple of inches of snow, I couldn't go anywhere. At the start of the second Winter, I put on a set of 185's & I had traction galore.
 
#7 ·
Look at the way the tread on most motorcycle tires is angled, on the front it is just opposite of the rear. For the front they angle the grooves for stopping traction, on the rear for acceleration traction. People, me included, use a rear tire on the front because it has about 50% more tread.
 
#8 ·
...exactly.

On my Shadow ...I'm putting a BF Goodrich on the rear.
When the front needs replacement, a rear tire goes on..

...if only the old GL's were so easy to do..
 
#11 ·
Back in the late '70's I raced my CB750. Not knowing anything being wrong with it I tried a rear tire on my front. On the track I immediately noticed the front end was very squirrely. The handling was terrible. Another racer looked at it and just laughed. He said the tread was 'floating' because it was too deep. At speed the tread would 'give' in the corners and the handling would go away. I swapped it out to the proper front tire and the handling came back.

So… if you're going to race your wing… use a front tire. Otherwise have fun.:waving:
 
#12 ·
Engineering is all about compromise. They look at all the equations and variables, determine the consequences, good and bad, of each feature of a design, then decide which features are most important based on the criteria they are given for the finished product.

A rear tire may have more tread, but there must be SOME trade-off to give the front tire less tread. Car tires may perform very well, but there must be some trade-off for a motorcycle tire that makes them stick with it. We may not understand the reasoning for the engineers' calls, and the reasoning may not apply to our uses, but it was done for a reason. We may be able to adapt their designs, as in reversing the rear tire when used on the front, but we should ask ourselves why. What was the trade-off for their original design and what are we accomplishing by modifying it?

Not saying the modifications shouldn't be made, just saying they should be thought out and have a purpose and ALL trade-offs of each modification should be considered.

In answer to the OP, my understanding is that the rear tire pushes while the front tire is pushed. Therefore, assuming the tread pattern influences leverage and application of force on the wheel, the tread pattern should be opposite from front to rear.

Water dissipation, while a serious consideration in tire design, is not the primary factor. For big, off-road tires, you want a thick, deep tread pattern to provide "hooks" to grab the surface you're driving on. For racing, slicks provide far more contact with the ground, providing better traction, but don't provide the proper friction coefficient until they reach a certain temperature. Because the speed must be so great to obtain this temperature, it's not practical for a road car. Racing and off-road, by the way, have predictable surface conditions. Regular daily driving does not. Therefore, there must be a compromise to account for the unknown.

My question is, why are we even still at the stage where we have to discuss tires? I thought we were supposed to have flying cars by now dang it! Hollywood lied to me! :D
 
#13 ·
A lot of us trike guys do it because of the extra stability, it don't really matter. And as mentioned, we get a lot better wear which is always a good thing. As far as the rotation is concerned, the jury is still out on that.

Steve
 
#14 ·
UPS delivered my tires yesterday. The Bridgestone tire that I'm putting on the front has a symmetrical tread design. It still has the rotation arrow on it.
As far as tires pushing or being pushed, if that makes a difference, then that must mean that the tires are made differently than car tires. I have never seen a car tire with a rotation arrow on it.
 
#16 ·
UPS delivered my tires yesterday. The Bridgestone tire that I'm putting on the front has a symmetrical tread design. It still has the rotation arrow on it.
As far as tires pushing or being pushed, if that makes a difference, then that must mean that the tires are made differently than car tires. I have never seen a car tire with a rotation arrow on it.
You have not been paying much attention then.
For normal passenger car/truck tires, the tread design is not directional, nor asymmetrical. If you were to look at a Corvettes tires, Mustang GT500, Acura NSX, Camaro ZL1, etc, you would find different sizes, front to rear. Which means rotation is not possible. You would also find the tires to be directional, and asymmetrical. Which ends up meaning that each corner has its own tire. You cannot flip them around to work on the other side. Each tire has a direction for rotation, as well as which side of the tire goes to the outside. Now, if someone replaces them, and uses tires that are not as specific to their placement, then it doesn't matter. As said earlier, tires have compromises built into them. Those original tires do not have as much. Replacement tires you may find on the aforementioned cars are dependent on what the owner wanted to spend. How much he was willing to compromise to save $$. I'm sure most here can understand that concept.
 
#15 ·
yep, i have two sets of summer tires and a set of winter ties as well as a set of offroad tires than have arrows! but they are not there because they are constructed to work that way, it is because the tread pattern was "designed" to work "better" rotating that direction. now in case of the offroad tires there are many that run them backwards or a combination of and have great resutls ( as did many many many hummers in the military!!!)

it is not much diffrent than mother honda not "recomending" to pull a trailer with a wing, and we all know the resutls of that yet nobody fusses about that one!


and black i want to know what offroading you do that has predictable traction? cause it certianly changes in a matter of feet where i go!


i am sure there are negitives to a bit of this. but like said trade offs are expected and as long as you know that while you are riding it then all is good...

just like the ct on bike debate.. i am loving mine... and boss hoss came with a ct on back till a couple years ago. and if a ct on a bike can handle a small block chey weight and power and those guys didnt die on the first corner. then with a little common sense the rest of us should be ok too!
 
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