Dealer Claims Full Synthetic in Goldwing is Bad? - Page 6 - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #51 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-02-2015, 04:33 PM
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#2 I did my own big test on Amsoil in a Mitsubishi Montero I had years back. For 3000mi, I used Valvoline Dura-blend 5W30. Used the same pump at the same gas station for almost all fill-ups. No other changes were made during this time period of 6000mi. The first 3000mi section had 2 tanks that were pure highway. Otherwise, just back and forth to work...daily driving. I averaged 19.2mpg over that 3000mi.
Changed the engine, trans and rear diff over to Amsoil products. Covered another 3000mi, and tallied an average of 20.5mpg This 3Kmi stretch did not have all highway tanks involved. Just daily driving. Now, I don't believe the engine oil by itself will make much, if any, noticeable improvement in mileage. But when that vehicle was traded in, the dealer appraiser thought it stalled while stopped because of how smooth it felt. So he proceeded to make that lovely starter grind noise.


If you had done that test over a year with each oil it might be credible evidence but over a 3000 mile time period there were probably climate variables which can effect fuel economy as much or more than what you documented.
Really I have nothing against synthetic oil, I just can't in any way justify the cost of it based on my own experience and having worked in the automotive business for 35 years.

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post #52 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-02-2015, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sccaz View Post
Wow! This thread got ugly. But it's kinda par for the course on any automotive forum as well.


Only 2 reasons I am posting this is to say on a water cooled engine, yes the thermostat controls the temperature. But it is the COOLANT temperature that it regulates. Since coolant does not circulate into the crankcase, it is the oils job to cool the rotating assembly (crank and pistons). Thus the reason for oil coolers in some applications.


#2 I did my own big test on Amsoil in a Mitsubishi Montero I had years back. For 3000mi, I used Valvoline Dura-blend 5W30. Used the same pump at the same gas station for almost all fill-ups. No other changes were made during this time period of 6000mi. The first 3000mi section had 2 tanks that were pure highway. Otherwise, just back and forth to work...daily driving. I averaged 19.2mpg over that 3000mi.
Changed the engine, trans and rear diff over to Amsoil products. Covered another 3000mi, and tallied an average of 20.5mpg This 3Kmi stretch did not have all highway tanks involved. Just daily driving. Now, I don't believe the engine oil by itself will make much, if any, noticeable improvement in mileage. But when that vehicle was traded in, the dealer appraiser thought it stalled while stopped because of how smooth it felt. So he proceeded to make that lovely starter grind noise.
That Montero and a Nissan I had were my guinea pigs to see for myself if that stuff made a difference. And in my experience, it has.
I will absolutely not condemn the idea of use whatever and change it regularly. Because it works just fine. I run an auto repair shop, and know that is the case. We all have our personal preferences, and sometimes the emotions of those preferences interferes with what our fingers end up trying to translate onto the keyboard. As well as, how what is written is perceived by the end reader.


For the Wing, I did not notice ANY difference with Amsoil 10W40 vs the PO's Rotella. Although I did not use an infrared thermometer on the differential before and after changing, I would bet that would probably show a difference there though.
So just keep smiling and enjoy the ride
While true the exhaust and crankcase/oil pan are major contributors to engine cooling it is the thermostat that regulates engine temp. I would think common sense says the synthetic is not absorbing heat as well as the conventional oils if the oil pan temp is less. There cant be that much more friction with lets say Rotella T compared to synthetic. Our engines would wear out in no time. We all know how long the Wings engine lasts when serviced.
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post #53 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-03-2015, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sccaz View Post
Wow! This thread got ugly. But it's kinda par for the course on any automotive forum as well.


Only 2 reasons I am posting this is to say on a water cooled engine, yes the thermostat controls the temperature. But it is the COOLANT temperature that it regulates. Since coolant does not circulate into the crankcase, it is the oils job to cool the rotating assembly (crank and pistons). Thus the reason for oil coolers in some applications.


#2 I did my own big test on Amsoil in a Mitsubishi Montero I had years back. For 3000mi, I used Valvoline Dura-blend 5W30. Used the same pump at the same gas station for almost all fill-ups. No other changes were made during this time period of 6000mi. The first 3000mi section had 2 tanks that were pure highway. Otherwise, just back and forth to work...daily driving. I averaged 19.2mpg over that 3000mi.
Changed the engine, trans and rear diff over to Amsoil products. Covered another 3000mi, and tallied an average of 20.5mpg This 3Kmi stretch did not have all highway tanks involved. Just daily driving. Now, I don't believe the engine oil by itself will make much, if any, noticeable improvement in mileage. But when that vehicle was traded in, the dealer appraiser thought it stalled while stopped because of how smooth it felt. So he proceeded to make that lovely starter grind noise.
That Montero and a Nissan I had were my guinea pigs to see for myself if that stuff made a difference. And in my experience, it has.
I will absolutely not condemn the idea of use whatever and change it regularly. Because it works just fine. I run an auto repair shop, and know that is the case. We all have our personal preferences, and sometimes the emotions of those preferences interferes with what our fingers end up trying to translate onto the keyboard. As well as, how what is written is perceived by the end reader.


For the Wing, I did not notice ANY difference with Amsoil 10W40 vs the PO's Rotella. Although I did not use an infrared thermometer on the differential before and after changing, I would bet that would probably show a difference there though.
So just keep smiling and enjoy the ride
I ran the same test on my car and Goldwing. I have a 2015 Ford Mustang, and use Amsoil 5w50. It runs great, much better than the Ford Synthetic that they used. I do get better gas milage, and more power at high RPM's. The Goldwings get 10w40. Thanks for your post!

Last edited by AZgl1800; 09-03-2015 at 09:04 AM. Reason: added [/quote] to make post 'more clear'
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post #54 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-03-2015, 10:52 AM
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If you had done that test over a year with each oil it might be credible evidence but over a 3000 mile time period there were probably climate variables which can effect fuel economy as much or more than what you documented.
Really I have nothing against synthetic oil, I just can't in any way justify the cost of it based on my own experience and having worked in the automotive business for 35 years.
I thought about climate differentials as well during this test. Over 6000mi, I would easily overlap into either temperature change on the ends of that 6000, thereby somewhat ruling it out. Also, once the fluids were changed, I could see the difference right off the bat when checking mileage. I just dragged it out for the same mileage range for the purpose of keeping it as legitimately comparable as possible. I was NOT getting above 20mpg at all before the changeover. And barely dropped below 20 on only a couple fill-ups afterwards. AT that time gas was around $1.50ish. With the cost of the fluids, it would take approximately 15000mi to recoup the cost in fuel savings. With todays prices, it would obviously occur much sooner.


On a different note but sort of the same taboo topic, gasoline. Specifically, ethanol vs pure gas. I have kept track of every gas purchase since I bought the wing. A convenience store recently built in my town started selling pure gasoline. Naturally, I tried it. In one car, a 94 with fuel injection, my mileage went up by about 2-3mpg. The cost difference is usually the price difference between 87 and 89 octanes. It makes sense to continue its use from the financial aspect, as well as the car was simply made before ethanol use became mainstream. So I'm sure some components would benefit from its use.
The Wing however, did not make a difference. I feel carburetors are sloppy compared to a good fuel injection system. Carbs are simply not capable of self adjusting to maintain a good burning a/f ratio. So, I will just use whatever fuel is at 87 oct regardless of alcohol content (up to 10%.... naturally) until winter gets close. At which time I will fill up with the pure stuff to avoid any of those water or separation issues that plague storage situations.
1800 owners may be able to measure a difference due to FI.
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post #55 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-03-2015, 11:34 AM
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With the cost of the fluids, it would take approximately 15000mi to recoup the cost in fuel savings. With todays prices, it would obviously occur much sooner.

Was that per oil change?

On a different note but sort of the same taboo topic, gasoline. Specifically, ethanol vs pure gas.
1800 owners may be able to measure a difference due to FI.
Not really.

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post #56 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-03-2015, 12:16 PM
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I don't know the exact numbers, but I get it. ALL we get is clear premium, nothing else is clear around here. I ran it in the 'Wing and the mileage gained did not offset the additional cost. In fact mileage was almost the same, so no good reason to burn it. I drive enough rust/separation have not been in issue in anything I own.

I also tried it in my FS Bronco. With clear premium my mileage increased a couple (mind you, at the time I was getting 12, and it went to 14), but not enough to pay for what the 'good' gas was costing.

In the Goldwing I ran to Florence again the other day (About 160 miles). 2-lane highway over the hills (Eugene at about 400' elev, the pass about 800' elev, to the coast, 0' elev, and back). With cheap regular? 47 mpg. And that is with DELO in the crankcase which at 15/40 is thicker anyway. I digress.

Our motors are understressed. If you want synthetic, use it and be happy, but our motors are tuned no where near the ragged edge or performance envelope. But in my bike, regular oil changed at sane intervals has been proven by hundreds of thousands to give many hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles.

I have synthetic in my new car, that's it.

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post #57 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-03-2015, 06:27 PM
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I have absolutely no problems with documentary evidence.....
and yes, I am aware that the oil temps can get higher than the coolant temperatures...

experienced that on a 1965 Plymouth 4 speed tranny pulling a much too big trailer up in the Colorado Mountains one year. The next year, that motor had an oil cooler on it with a fan to help hold things under control.... I should have had a good pickup truck, but I only had one vehicle, a 383 CI, 330 hp 4 barrel hot rod that "can do anything I want it too"

If the PO has made it more clear in a documentary way, that the "Oil
temperatures will be cooler" with a synthetic, I would not have reacted as hard as I did.

But, I have been thru the Amsoil schools and I don't like their methods.
Oil temps on my 2008 HD Softail, got up to 270 Degrees at one point and I put an oil cooler on the bike which lowered it to 250. So oil temps can get a lot higher than the water temp. The HD was an air cooled bike. I did run synthetic in the bike because of the high oil temps.

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post #58 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-03-2015, 06:31 PM
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270-275 *F is right at the point where oil starts to get crispy...

I know a fella who over heated his engine and the oil temp guage hit 300*F.
I told him when he got home, do NOT let that engine cool off, drain the oil immediately and put in fresh oil...

Well, we were up in Colorado and he did not heed the warning.
" it will be just fine"..... said he and the night time temps dropped to 35* or abouts.

so, I left him and went back to my campsite.
Next day, the starter on his truck went "click" and that was all she wrote.

Crankcase jelled solid.

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post #59 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-03-2015, 08:05 PM
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I might be taking the bait on this Amsoil hook, not really. Thinking about the Polaris that I mentioned earlier that they recommend Polaris oil for, and absolutely no others, and after an intense search and discussion with others turns out to be a synthetic 0W50 or 5W50. I thought at first that this viscosity was used for all temperature usage. But now I am thinking that the reason for it may be because this machine is marketed to children that may not understand that this is an air cooled engine that should not be left for long periods of time at idle or running without moving. Just trying to understand the synthetic thing.


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post #60 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-04-2015, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cycleman View Post
Oil temps on my 2008 HD Softail, got up to 270 Degrees at one point and I put an oil cooler on the bike which lowered it to 250. So oil temps can get a lot higher than the water temp. The HD was an air cooled bike. I did run synthetic in the bike because of the high oil temps.
Use Amsoil it is designed to lower temps!
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