Battery discharge issue...... - Page 4 - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #31 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-20-2016, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Greek View Post
OK I'm glad to see he will keep a meter on the bike. That should be his starting point the next time the bike does not start. He has to start to eliminate things backwards from the battery. I wanted him to pull it off the charger so that it might not start in his garage as opposed to him taking it for a ride and getting stuck somewhere as he said happened to him before. I was not aware he was from the UK and I do not know the weather conditions over there this time of year. Still I would think as long as the bike is ridden every couple of weeks at least, the battery should hold a good charge. All I know is this, If I put a fully charged battery in my bike and came back to it in say 4 days and it did not start I would check the voltage at the battery. If I got a reading of anything less than 12 volts it has to be a bad battery or some kind of draw while sitting. There is nothing else it can be? If I were to get a 12 volt or higher reading than I would move on from the battery to wire connections to ground and also the positive cable to the starter. I've seen cables after being cut open full of corrosion even though they look good at the ends. From what I am reading I don't think it is the starter at this point because he says all he gets is a clicking sound so the starter has not even engaged yet. As far as cycling the key I think that is way ahead of where he should be looking at this point. There are to many basic things that need to be looked at first. I think he can both find his problem and fix it if he just uses the process of elimination. Start with the easy and cheap stuff and go from there. Let's all remember that his first post was about the battery being pulled down or as he said discharging. Not starting is a secondary condition of the battery being pulled down. He claims he throws a charge on it and it starts right up? We need to know what the volt reading is the next time it does not start!

Chris,
When you describe the click is it faint and singular like a relay etc. More like a tick if you will. Or is it the battery is dead type chatter a guy gets when the solenoids are chattering?
Greek,
I mentioned the ignition switch because what could be easier than cycling the switch a few times. If you study the schematic notice that after relay "A" the first thing is the ignition switch. Logic also told me that when Chris said he charged the battery and it would start, he also cycled the key. If the battery is in fact not the issue it might be the ignition switch. Remember someone was probably in that area when they installed the immobiliser. Keep in mind that it is an intermittent issue so if he can do several tests simultaneously it can shorten the troubleshooting process a lot if he can catch it when it is acting up.

Mike

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post #32 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-20-2016, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by redwing52 View Post
Chris,
When you describe the click is it faint and singular like a relay etc. More like a tick if you will. Or is it the battery is dead type chatter a guy gets when the solenoids are chattering?.............
.


Mike

I was thinking about this last evening and this is what happened. As I haven't use the bike for a little while I charged the battery over the weekend. On Tuesday I took it for it's annual MOT test. At home it started at first attempt and I rode it to the garage where I parked outside. It started again without effort when I had to take it into the garage but, when the mechanic wanted it started again, no joy!

If I recall correctly when the stater was pushed there was a single click, all the dash lights went off and it simply wouldn't start. The exact same symptoms has with a completely 'dead' battery. The mechanic attached his charger for a few minutes and BINGO! - She started. Obviously from this we just 'assumed' the battery was at fault, but of course the battery 'drop test' indicates differently?

Leave it with me and I'll see if I can get the problem to recur, then I'll try to describe the clicking sound in a bit more detail..

Chris

Last edited by chris301up; 05-21-2016 at 04:48 AM.
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post #33 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-21-2016, 10:07 AM
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Hey if he wants to cycle the key go for it. Won't hurt to try. I still want to know what the volts reading is the next time it does not start. He has to start somewhere and the battery is the place to start. Every thing he is describing points to a low battery condition. It starts once or twice and then it needs a charge. Once we get the volts reading then we can start to eliminate things. He claims the battery is testing good, The bike starts after getting a charge, My question is why isn't it getting a charge while riding it. It should be getting charged while the engine is running. He claims it is getting 14.5 volts charge?? I still don't know where he is getting that reading from?? I would like to see that reading at the battery. Also I still don't like to see a reading of 14.5 volts especially if it is a constant condition. A regulated charging system will monitor the battery and only charge for what is needed. My Harley has a led charging monitor and when I first start it it will light up to the first yellow led. This is 14.0 to 14.5. After running a few minutes it will settle down to all green and that is 13.5 to 13.9. My pickup does the same thing. It will charge up to 14.2 after starting and after a couple of miles down the road it settles down to 13.2. Of course the more load you put on the system the more charge you should get as the regulator will sense it. Also keep in mind a bad battery will appear as a big load to the regular so it will push more charge to compensate. Like I said we need to see the condition of the battery when it will not start. I think it will come down to a bad battery, A major drain, Or a not charging condition. There has to be a reason why that battery will not hold a charge and I think it will be one of those 3 issues.
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post #34 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 07:35 AM Thread Starter
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Right. Today I carried out a few basic tests and these are the results:

1) Before starting the bike I got a reading of 11.93 volts. More than adequate to start the bike.

2) I started the bike and got a reading of 14.08 volts on 'tick-over'. This reduced to a steady 14 volts when turning the throttle and holding it at either 3000 or 4000 RPM

3) I then 'cycled' the ignition key off and on several times, with all lights and accessories on, until the bike would no longer start. At this point I got a reading of 8.84 volts and there was regular clicks which I assume is the starter relays?

From this I can almost certainly deduce that it is another faulty battery, even though this was replaced less than 12 months ago, done less than 250 miles and recently tested 'good'.
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post #35 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 07:42 AM
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Chris,

You really need to install a voltmeter on that bike so you can observe what is happening while it is running.

It makes no sense at all that the system would charge at 14.+ volts and then the battery to be dead...

if you do replace this battery, make darn sure it is an AGM battery.

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post #36 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 09:45 AM
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Though your battery shows to hold good voltage, it appears to discharge extremely fast suggesting either simple sulfation or sulfation to the point of a dead short within a cell or more.

Your battery is the problem so far.

Me? Knowing that the battery wont sustain a charge, I would first try and shock the sulfation loose from the plates and then a fairly involved process of cycling charging time and current to dissolve the mess and get the plates restored as best you can, or remove the electrolyte and start from there.

In the meantime, ...buy another battery.
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post #37 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 01:15 PM
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Just my opinion, but 11.93V is low for a standing voltage, engine off, key off (so no accessory drain.) You usually want to see closer to 12.5V.

According to this: http://modernsurvivalblog.com/altern...-charge-chart/ 11.9V is a 40% charge on the battery...

I'd say bad battery.

I have a 1987 FZR1000 that just wouldn't start - battery had 12.3V standing, but no spark when cranking. I checked voltage while cranking and it was (IIRC) 9V while cranking. The old battery just didn't have enough cranking amps to turn the starter and get enough voltage to the coils to get a (good enough) spark on the plugs. New battery and problem solved. So, even a standing voltage test doesn't tell the whole story.

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post #38 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgmr250 View Post
Just my opinion, but 11.93V is low for a standing voltage, engine off, key off (so no accessory drain.) You usually want to see closer to 12.5V.

According to this: http://modernsurvivalblog.com/altern...-charge-chart/ 11.9V is a 40% charge on the battery...

I'd say bad battery.

I have a 1987 FZR1000 that just wouldn't start - battery had 12.3V standing, but no spark when cranking. I checked voltage while cranking and it was (IIRC) 9V while cranking. The old battery just didn't have enough cranking amps to turn the starter and get enough voltage to the coils to get a (good enough) spark on the plugs. New battery and problem solved. So, even a standing voltage test doesn't tell the whole story.
This is a relatively new battery. I purchased it in October 2014 but, the machine was garaged over the winter period so didn't fit it until end February 2015. In accordance with the instructions, I kept the battery in a 'dry' condition until ready to use it, and only then did I add the electrolyte and charge it fully.

I started riding it in March 2015 and then a similar problem, The battery became faulty and was replaced (under warranty) in May 2015. Overall I have used the bike and ridden approximately 250 miles on the replacement battery, and whilst it's been off the road during the 2015-16 winter period I used the Optimate 3.

Since getting it back on the road at beginning of May this year the problem has reared 'it's ugly head' yet again. I just find it very hard to believe that the second battery failed again in such a short space of time?

Obviously it is no longer in warranty so won't be able to get it replaced a second time!

Typical......
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post #39 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 03:27 PM
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sorry, you think it is a "newer battery", but that is two winters worth, and it is time for a new one. and I see no mention of keeping it on a Battery Tender..... batteries will self discharge over time, IMO that battery is junk...

just get a new AGM battery, and get rid of that wet cell.
then you can enjoy riding the bike, not complaining that it won't start.
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post #40 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 03:33 PM Thread Starter
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sorry, you think it is a "newer battery", but that is two winters worth, and it is time for a new one. and I see no mention of keeping it on a Battery Tender..... batteries will self discharge over time, IMO that battery is junk...

.
No. It's one winters worth as the battery was fitted in May last year. Isn't the Optimate 3 a 'battery tender'?
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