1997 Goldwing GL1500 Jerks under 2,000 RPM - Page 4 - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #31 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-10-2018, 01:28 PM
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Joe, do you have the service manual?
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post #32 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-10-2018, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GoldwingA1500 View Post
I also noted that no vacuum could be felt before or ever AJ2 and AJ3 circuits. So why does it even have a secondary filter if there is no vacuum pressure felt, even at high idle?
You will not feel a vacuum there they are simply atmospheric air bleed ports which open into the carb circuits to lean a mixture out. The AJC's pull double duty and also serve as the altitude compensation system.

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Also, while at idle, I noticed the PAIR induction tube on the front ride side of the filter box is drawing air even when at idle. Isn't the PAIR supposed to be closed at idle? Mine is open unless I throttle heavy enough for the PAIR to close, and the gurgling noise you hear vanishes. Once the engine returns to idle, the PAIR opens again and vacuum can be felt from the PAIR induction tube where also a gurgling sound is heard. Again, is this normal because the book doesn't tell you the parameters for PAIR operation.
That is how a Pulse Air system works and behaves by drawing air into the exhaust stream except on high manifold vacuum closed throttle decel, no problem there.

What procedure did you use to check and set the float levels?

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post #33 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-10-2018, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bike...and Dennis View Post
Doesn't the knock indicate an ECM problem?
That is one of my guesses that the Carburetor Control Unit might be defective since it is what controls timing advanced...right?

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post #34 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-10-2018, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
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Joe, do you have the service manual?
I have a PDF version of the service manual; no paperback book. Although there is a small manual that came with the bike, but that is not the repair/service manual. I'd like to get hold of a hard or soft back version, but I'm fine with the electronic version. And that is what I've been using.

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post #35 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-10-2018, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DriverRider View Post
You will not feel a vacuum there they are simply atmospheric air bleed ports which open into the carb circuits to lean a mixture out. The AJC's pull double duty and also serve as the altitude compensation system.



That is how a Pulse Air system works and behaves by drawing air into the exhaust stream except on high manifold vacuum closed throttle decel, no problem there.

What procedure did you use to check and set the float levels?
That was a slight problem in setting the float height. In the manual, one section stated 7mm, while another said 8mm. I set them at 7mm which might be a bit short. Fortunately I do not see any fuel draining from the overflow line, but I do have a mind to remove the carbs again and closely inspect the CV boots for any possible hole or tear that I may have missed last year. I will also reset the float height to 8mm. Which is it? 7mm or 8mm?

Joe
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post #36 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-10-2018, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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Okay all!

I haven't yet solved the problem, but I feel that I'm getting very close to identifying the issue. Today was 97 degrees and hot, and that's when the bike jerks and spark-knocks even worse, and that was with 93 Octane fuel. It does it even worse with 87 Octane fuel.

Anyways, the bike cruised beautifully at highways speeds at about 70mph to 85mph. Once I slowed to 45mph in OD, I decided to overload the engine and duplicate the issue. I would snap the throttle to 3/4 to full, and the left side of the engine popped and backfired I believe in the intake manifold. I was able to duplicate this over and over. It would jerk, pop, or spit on the left side of the engine. So let's review here.

What causes intake backfire? Feel free to add anything I've missed:

1. Vacuum leak
2. Sticking valves also leading to vacuum leak but is compensated at higher RPM's since the gases cannot escape fast enough
3. Improper ignition timing (Computer maybe?)
4. Lean fuel condition (accelerator pump or improper fuel metering)

My first guess is to check for leaky valves, so as soon as the bike cools down, I'm going to perform a compression test on the entire left side. I'm leaving out the right side since no popping originated from that area. Now since the left intake manifold is the only manifold with vacuum ports and lines, tell me if you think this might work. If I simply removed the forward and aft vacuum lines and plugged both ports, assuming that a leak is in the vacuum hose/tube system (in theory), wouldn't that eliminate the popping assuming that was the problem? Unless I am in error, the left intake manifold supplies vacuum to the following components: Let me know if I missed anything:

1. Cruise Control
2. PAIR Control
3. IASA Valve
4. Intake Heat Snorkel

Did I miss anything requiring vacuum which is supplied via the left intake manifold.

By God I'm going to solve this problem if it kills me. LOL I should go back to school and take a class strictly on the GL series engines; especially the older carburetor engines.

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post #37 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-10-2018, 07:53 PM
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Just wondering if you already verified engine timing at the crank and timing belt pulley's?
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post #38 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-10-2018, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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Just wondering if you already verified engine timing at the crank and timing belt pulley's?
Not yet but that is on the list. I don't recall timing belt replacement intervals and my bikes has 39,000 miles on it. Even so, there's no telling if any mods or upgrades were done to the bike unless I remove the lower front cover and check the timing. It's possible the guy before me might have installed a 4 degree timing wheel, and that might explain the spark knocking during the summer when using 87 Octane. More to come on this.

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post #39 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-10-2018, 08:13 PM
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That was a slight problem in setting the float height. In the manual, one section stated 7mm, while another said 8mm. I set them at 7mm which might be a bit short. Fortunately I do not see any fuel draining from the overflow line, but I do have a mind to remove the carbs again and closely inspect the CV boots for any possible hole or tear that I may have missed last year. I will also reset the float height to 8mm. Which is it? 7mm or 8mm?

Joe

If it's too lean at 7mm you sure don't want to go to 8mm. You were asked the method you used to set the floats. Did you have the carbs upside down or just let the float rest on the pin.

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post #40 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-10-2018, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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UPDATE:

So this evening I performed a compression test (dry) to see if any valves might be suspect. All four cylinders on the left side averages about 190 +/-. I'm sure it would have been higher had I squirted a little bit of oil, but overall I'm pleased with the results. So this pretty much eliminates sticking valves.

I also disconnected both vacuum hoses on the left side and plugged both ports. Of course, the bike stalled (as I suspected) since the IASA Valve opened during throttle deceleration just from a stand still. So I had to remove the cooling fan and isolate the valve by plugging the three lines. Then the bike was able to run but as a very rich state. The rear vacuum port controls the PAIR Valves, and I believe the cruise control, so it was not an issue unplugging. So with the IASA valve isolated, and the two ports plugged, there was no change. The bike still jerked under 2,000 RPM. So I believe we can safely assume that there is no vacuum leak.

HOWEVER, this is what I did notice. When I reconnected the IASA Valve, and the aft vacuum port, and took the bike around the block, the damn thing ran beautiful. Absolutely little to no JERKING! Guys I'm stumped! Is it possible that the IASA Valve is not function correctly? I just replaced that damn thing although it was a used one. I checked it according to the book and it worked fine. It opens and closes as it is supposed to, and there are not vacuum leaks on the valve. Remember the bike stalled at first attempt because the valve opened when I had the vacuum line disconnected. So I had to isolate it. Yet with the valve taken out of the picture, the bike still jerked. When I reconnected the valve, the damn thing ran great with no jerking under 2,000 RPM.

Could someone with more thorough knowledge please explain to me how the IASA valve is controlled (opened/closed)? I know that a small vacuum hose is connected to the right side of the valve, and a larger free-flowing hose connected to the bottom port. And a larger hose is connected to the left side of the vacuum which has a strong vacuum.

I know when testing the valve, vacuum pressure is applied to the lower large port and there should be no vacuum leak; this passed. Vacuum is applied to the smaller port, while about 5psi is pushed on the lower larger port. When the small vacuum hose suction is reduced, this causes the valve to open momentarily and the larger vacuum hose on the left side (forward side towards the radiator) pulls air from the larger hose on the lower right side. This all happens during deceleration under high intake vacuum. As soon as you are at a stop and returned to idle, the valve closes but I do not know how or why.

Now I only ran the bike twice around the block after the two tests, and as I've stated, it ran fairly well with only minor jerky, very little at that and below 2,000 RPM. No doubt tomorrow (or even now) when I take the bike out, it will jerk again.

What's freaking weird is when I isolated the IASA valve (taking it out of the picture), the bike still jerked. So I'm confused fella's. LOL Now I cannot be sure that the bike ran perfect since I did not exceed 30mph in the neighborhood, so I'm going to call it a flue test. Thus at this point, there was no change with eliminating possible vacuum leaks, and the valves appeared to be good based on the compression test results. So I think next is removing the carburetors again and inspecting the IASA hoses that go to the left and right intake manifolds; you cannot change those unless the carbs are removed...at least to the best of my knowledge. I'm also going to examine the CV boots to make sure there is no hole. Might as well replace all the seals and hoses on the carbs again while I am at it.

I am officially stumped beyond stumphood.

Joe
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