1997 Goldwing GL1500 Jerks under 2,000 RPM - Page 6 - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums
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post #51 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 07:36 PM
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I don't know if you did this or not, I don't remember seeing it and I am not going back over 50 posts to find it. Have you done a proper compression test? Both hot and cold. Have you set up vacuum gauges on it to see how that are acting?
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post #52 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rickf1985 View Post
I don't know if you did this or not, I don't remember seeing it and I am not going back over 50 posts to find it. Have you done a proper compression test? Both hot and cold. Have you set up vacuum gauges on it to see how that are acting?
I did a dry compression test (no oil added) just to give me a general idea of any possible valve problems. I did note that the most forward cylinder on the left side was the weakest at about 190 psi, the rest more more closer to 196 psi. I only tested the left side since that is the side that seems to backfire or pop in the intake manifold under full load in OD gear starting at about 45mph and RPM's just below 2,000. Once the RPM's rise high enough, no more popping is heard in the intake and the bike runs very strong.

I also did a vacuum test on both the left and right intake manifolds using standard automotive vacuum gauges (not sync gauges). The right vacuum gauge needle vibrated, as did the left, but the left gauge (for the left intake manifold) vibrated a hell of a lot more (needle oscillation). I am not burning any oil and the engine only has about 39,000 miles, so I doubt there is anything wrong with the rings. However, given the corrosive nature of modern fuels (BTEX and Ethanol), combined with poor storage and maintenance practices of the farmer I purchased the bike from, I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of my valves are sticking, likely an intake valve.

Joe
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post #53 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Well I must have tested the PAIR valve wrong the first time. I just did it again, and it's holding vacuum as it is supposed to. LOL Don't ask me why, but it seems to check out fine. Disconnect the vacuum hose from the lower aft side of the filter box, and it is joined in with one hose going to the top of the PAIR, and the other going to the solenoid. At idle, you apply vacuum pressure to the hose and vacuum should hold and the PAIR induction tube that makes the gurgling sound when the PAIR is open should stop sucking air; this performed as required. So at this point I'd say the PAIR is functioning correctly.

Now that I think of it, the PAIR seems to be a useless system as all it is doing is feeding fresh hair to the exhaust system, I guess to help supply oxygen to unburned fuels; kind of like an after-burner system. I'm thinking about deleting the PAIR. *Hides under the table* I'm waiting on the first Goldwing mechanic to shoot me.

Has anyone deleted the PAIR system yet? As for the Intake Air Shot Air Valve (IASA), I think I'm keeping that just for safety so as to avoid locking up the rear tire during hard deceleration. Can't have my babe on the back falling off....well if she pisses me off I might.

Do we really need the PAIR? Think of the weight I could remove as well as the extra hoses, manifold, reed valves, etc.

In your honest opinion, notwithstanding any SAE (Same As Engineered) folks out there, is there anything detrimental to deleting the PAIR?
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post #54 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 12:58 AM
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Although I am not a mechanic, I can say that this is an engineering issue to cancel or add a system on the current system. If something is used there should be a reason to solve a problem or something during the R&D period.
And also we know that, Honda engineers have cancelled some systems on the engine during the years 88-92, but not on the later models.

You should use the service manual to perform the checks, so that you can understand the system is functioning or not within the design parameters. Otherwise it will be a never ending learning project.

By the way there was a project to convert the carb to injector system, if you want to read. But unfortunately the pictures can not be seen anymore.
https://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/...n-project.html
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post #55 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 04:41 AM
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To me it sounds like an ignition issue. Remember that the voltage required to fire a spak plug is much higher when the engine is loaded. Is the bike even worse if you lug it and try to accelerate? I wonder about resistor caps on the plug wires or a bad coil etc.
When the engine RPM gets up a bit and the load on the engine decreases the voltage required to fire the plug drops. If any part of the ignition system is just marginal it could run OK when the load on the engine is moderate or light but balk when the loads are heavier like when it pulls hard at low RPM.
A scope would be the best way to see if that is the issue. A backyard mechanic can hook a timing light to one plug wire at a time and have a passenger watch the light flash to see if the light flashes irregularity is in sync with the engine. You would have to do it 6 times. Once on each plug wire. Is the problem worse when riding 2 up? I would think it would if the ignition is the issue, but maybe not in lower gears.

Mike

Worked on the "big rigs" for 45 years now just riding my Wing whenever I can. Gets cold in Wisconsin.
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post #56 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by GoldwingA1500 View Post
Well I must have tested the PAIR valve wrong the first time. I just did it again, and it's holding vacuum as it is supposed to. LOL Don't ask me why, but it seems to check out fine. Disconnect the vacuum hose from the lower aft side of the filter box, and it is joined in with one hose going to the top of the PAIR, and the other going to the solenoid. At idle, you apply vacuum pressure to the hose and vacuum should hold and the PAIR induction tube that makes the gurgling sound when the PAIR is open should stop sucking air; this performed as required. So at this point I'd say the PAIR is functioning correctly.

Now that I think of it, the PAIR seems to be a useless system as all it is doing is feeding fresh hair to the exhaust system, I guess to help supply oxygen to unburned fuels; kind of like an after-burner system. I'm thinking about deleting the PAIR. *Hides under the table* I'm waiting on the first Goldwing mechanic to shoot me.

Has anyone deleted the PAIR system yet? As for the Intake Air Shot Air Valve (IASA), I think I'm keeping that just for safety so as to avoid locking up the rear tire during hard deceleration. Can't have my babe on the back falling off....well if she pisses me off I might.

Do we really need the PAIR? Think of the weight I could remove as well as the extra hoses, manifold, reed valves, etc.

In your honest opinion, notwithstanding any SAE (Same As Engineered) folks out there, is there anything detrimental to deleting the PAIR?

The big question is why? The systems you are focused on are not your problem, leave them alone until you fix what's wrong then do as you wish.

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post #57 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Erdeniz Umman View Post
Although I am not a mechanic, I can say that this is an engineering issue to cancel or add a system on the current system. If something is used there should be a reason to solve a problem or something during the R&D period.
And also we know that, Honda engineers have cancelled some systems on the engine during the years 88-92, but not on the later models.

You should use the service manual to perform the checks, so that you can understand the system is functioning or not within the design parameters. Otherwise it will be a never ending learning project.

By the way there was a project to convert the carb to injector system, if you want to read. But unfortunately the pictures can not be seen anymore.
https://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/...n-project.html
I agree.....leave the systems in. Although the PAIR itself is not about engine performance but EPA stuff. I'm not sure but I think the Goldwing and the Valkre are the only two bikes that utilizes the PAIR system. Even so, I will keep it in. I was merely venting with a little humor. I'll figure it out eventually. Hell if I can maintain and repair an F-16 Fighter Jet, I can certainly figure out a motorcycle. LOL

Joe
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post #58 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 07:46 AM
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if I can maintain and repair an F-16 Fighter Jet, I can certainly figure out a motorcycle. LOL

Joe

I hope you didn't go about those in the same way. Stabbing in the dark.

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post #59 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by redwing52 View Post
To me it sounds like an ignition issue. Remember that the voltage required to fire a spak plug is much higher when the engine is loaded. Is the bike even worse if you lug it and try to accelerate? I wonder about resistor caps on the plug wires or a bad coil etc.
When the engine RPM gets up a bit and the load on the engine decreases the voltage required to fire the plug drops. If any part of the ignition system is just marginal it could run OK when the load on the engine is moderate or light but balk when the loads are heavier like when it pulls hard at low RPM.
A scope would be the best way to see if that is the issue. A backyard mechanic can hook a timing light to one plug wire at a time and have a passenger watch the light flash to see if the light flashes irregularity is in sync with the engine. You would have to do it 6 times. Once on each plug wire. Is the problem worse when riding 2 up? I would think it would if the ignition is the issue, but maybe not in lower gears.
You might be on to something huge here because that is exactly what my bike is doing. At low RPM under load (lugging it), in any gear (even 1st), she spark knocks with 87 Octane that can actually be heard, whereas with 93 Octane she jerks without the distinct spark knock sound. Yet the jerking and spark knock sound are the same. This is why I was suspecting a lean condition either caused by a faulty carb (left side) or a vacuum leak. Then again, a jumping plug wire might produce the same thing.

And to answer your other question, yes, she pings worse with a passenger on the back, but within the same RPM range. Sometimes, when with RPM's high enough, the bike will not jerk, but you can hear it fluttering inside the left intake manifold. My timing light broke so that is why I haven't done that test yet. I'll see if a friend has one that I can borrow.

I'm leaning towards an ignition problem. Oh, but all of the plugs looked beautiful; neither white nor black; they all looked really clean and I've never seen plugs wit almost 40,000 miles on them look so good. I would assume that a spark problem would lead to fouled plugs.

Joe
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post #60 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 07:51 AM Thread Starter
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I hope you didn't go about those in the same way. Stabbing in the dark.
No we relied on testing equipment but our maintenance manuals are more thorough than the average automotive repair manual. We had accurate troubleshooting trees that starts with the easiest test, to the hardest. We are also required to know how to read schematics, perform voltage checks, and know theory of operation for each system. This is why troubleshooting an F-16 seems to be easier than troubleshooting a Goldwing.

There was my last assigned F-16 I used to work on. Aircraft 1355...received top-flier awards about 6 times when I was a younger Airman. I miss working them (I'm retired). The F-16 has always been one of the most badass jets ever, even against the old F-15 Strike Eagles. She was a great jet!
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