1997 Goldwing GL1500 Jerks under 2,000 RPM - Page 7 - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #61 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DaveO430 View Post
The big question is why? The systems you are focused on are not your problem, leave them alone until you fix what's wrong then do as you wish.
I didn't yet fully understand the theory of operation with the PAIR. And because I did not understand the processes involved with open/close of the PAIR, and misread the first test, I misdiagnosed the PAIR as another vacuum leak. I believe I understand now.

The aft vacuum port supplies vacuum to the PAIR Solenoid which is closed during acceleration. During acceleration, the Solenoid is opened and a vacuum is pulled atop of the PAIR valve. What confused me is why a second vacuum line that T's into the PAIR system is attached to the intake breather on the lower aft left side of the filter box. When the Solenoid is open, how is vacuum able to reach the PAIR valve when the hose attached to the filter box is an open port? That's what confused me; in fact I am still confused. You would think that there would be a check-valve there to prevent vacuum leak during PAIR operation. Refer to the picture to see what I'm talking about.

Now I understand that when the PAIR solenoid is closed (cuts off vacuum), the PAIR valve must move to the open position and is relaxed (I assume by an internal spring) which requires the vacuum previously applied to the top of the valve has to have a way of escaping, hence the reason for the 2nd hose attached to the filter box. So I'm assuming that the vacuum pressure must be strong enough post Solenoid valve that it is able to close the PAIR valve even while vacuum pressure is leaking from the 2nd host attached to the filter box. Or is that hose plugged by a blocked port on the box? This is why I was thinking that a vacuum leak existed on the PAIR system.
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post #62 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 10:09 AM
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Goldwings are more sophisticated than F-16s, but the jets are snootier.

Something about having to stay on the highway and roll through the cow crap humbles a machine.

Why ain't we ridin'?
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post #63 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 11:38 AM
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Here is a video explaining how the induction system works on GL1500. Although it is for 88 models (I think) it may help understanding the system.
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post #64 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Goldwings are more sophisticated than F-16s, but the jets are snootier.

Something about having to stay on the highway and roll through the cow crap humbles a machine.


Given where the bike came from (a farmer), you are quite right.

I'll figure it out eventually. The Goldwing is one of the most automated bikes I've seen to-date. I'm used to the V-Twin and manual carbs, although I am also experienced on some of the more modern sport bikes. Once I learn all of the systems, troubleshooting will be much easier.

Joe
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post #65 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erdeniz Umman View Post
Here is a video explaining how the induction system works on GL1500. Although it is for 88 models (I think) it may help understanding the system.
https://youtu.be/Jyf5lrtBZnk
Thanks for providing the video. I have seen this video already, and this was what I originally used as a reference in understanding how the induction system works. I'm getting a pretty good grasp on everything. I know, and can feel, that the problem is going to show its ugly head soon, and it will turn out to be something as simple as a corroded spark plug wire, or as complicated as a faulty Carb-Control Unit. I just hope it isn't the valves, otherwise that might require head removal, unless I'm fortunate enough to use a valve cleaning agent, such as B-12 Chemtool (the best I've seen to-date). Gumout works fair, but B12 works the best. I now there are a lot of seafoam fans out there, but that stuff isn't really good at keeping valves and pistons clean.

Joe
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post #66 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 05:57 PM
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Also, you should check the connector of the ECU, sometimes the pins inside are found to be loose or corroded. Those selenoids, ignition system, fuel pump etc. are all controlled by ECU on your bike (Ignition control unit and carburetor control unit are two separate parts on 88-89 models).
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post #67 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 08:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erdeniz Umman View Post
Also, you should check the connector of the ECU, sometimes the pins inside are found to be loose or corroded. Those selenoids, ignition system, fuel pump etc. are all controlled by ECU on your bike (Ignition control unit and carburetor control unit are two separate parts on 88-89 models).
That is also a possibility since the CCU is part of my list of possible culprits. I also have not excluded the possibility that the coolant temperature sensor under the intake manifold (per the article I read) might be the reason why the CCU is applying incorrect time-advance based on a faulty reading. My only reason for ignoring this as a possibility is the pre-2,000 RPM jerking happens no matter what the temperature is, albeit much less when outside temperatures are below 55+/- degrees.

At this point, there are three things I'm considering as the most likely cause:

1. Faulty ignition system (wires, or coil)
2. Carburetor (possibly CV boot hole)
3. Sticking valve

Right now I'm a little burned out of troubleshooting, so I've taken a break for a few days. I really do not feel like removing all of the plastic again. And the bike rides just fine as long as I do not lugg it under 2,000 RPM. More to come folks! Again, I appreciate all of your inputs. If I could afford it, I'd drop it off at a qualified Honda Shop and let them tinker with it for a while. But I hate it when I cannot troubleshoot myself. I've had my Chevy Suburban 1999 model 5.7 Vortec for almost 20 years, and I've been able to keep her running. I used to have misfire problems with my Chevy, and it turned out to be both heads having sticky valves. With almost 300,000 miles on my Chevy, I've managed to keep her running quite well. And she's paid for. I expect to have longevity with my Goldwing as well, although I really wish it were fuel injected instead of carbureted.
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post #68 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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UPDATE:

Performed CAJ2 and CAJ3 test according to pages 4-50 and 4-51 of the maintenance manual. Refer to the two attachments for your reference.

I performed an individual vacuum test of AJ2 and AJ3 solenoids, and both hold vacuum as required. HOWEVER, when performing the tests according to pages 4-50 and 4-51, AJ2 solenoid is OPEN while at 800 RPM (IDLE) when it should be closed. When I apply at least 7.9 InHg to the ECU, AJ2 then closes and no vacuum is lost. However, while at idle, and since I am below 1,000 feet above sea level (about 383 feet ASL), according to the chart, AJ2 and AJ3 should be closed with 0 InHg applies to the ECM. Mind you this is with the bike at idle 800 RPM, both valves should be closed since I am below 1,000 feet ASL, although the manual states this depends on the altitude pressures.

I place my hand on AJ2 and shut off the bike, I do not feel a change. I place my hand on AJ2 and start the bike, I feel a slight click but not too heavy as it does when I apply 7.9 InHG to the ECU. Run the RPM to 2,000 RPM and both AJ2 and AJ3 click (as in open), when according to the manual, AJ3 shouldn't open at all. So both AJ2 and AJ3 are opening nearly at the same time between 7.9 InHg and 15 InHg applied to the ECU or when RPM is increased to 2,000 RPM.

The test is somewhat confusing. But in a nutshell, my problem appears to be AJ2 is opening at all times while at idle (800 RPM's) even though the valve itself is not actually clicking open. Yet apply a little pressure to the ECU (7.9 InHg), and then AJ2 snaps/clicks closed when even at idle it is supposed to be closed. But when it closes, vacuum pressure is still lost. Shut down the bike, and all of a sudden AJ2 is fully closed and vacuum pressure is maintained.

To make it easier to understand, AJ2 should ONLY OPEN with 7.9 InHg applied to ECU and RPM reaches 2,000, this according to both charts. AJ3 should always be closed since I believe 1,000 feet ASL (I believe this is correct; correct me if I'm wrong). Thus, AJ2 should only open when RPM reaches 2,000 on both charts, respective of their vacuum applications to the ECU.

Unless I'm in error, it sounds as though AJ2 is receiving a faulty signal for some reason to slightly open although not all of the way until RPM reach 2,000, or the ECU vacuum reaches at least 7.9 InHg.

Could this be my problem? Or could this be related to a possible vacuum leak somewhere and the ECU is not getting enough vacuum for proper operation.
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post #69 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 06:16 PM
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Disregard your diagnosis train of thought on this because you have said the problem is the left cylinder bank and the AJC's work on both carbs equally, if there was a problem with them it would affect both banks the same.

You need to first be looking down the carb throats to see any abnormalities in their function and operation with fuel sprays from slide and main discharge ports while underway with it acting up.

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post #70 of 150 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldwingA1500 View Post
UPDATE:

Performed CAJ2 and CAJ3 test according to pages 4-50 and 4-51 of the maintenance manual. Refer to the two attachments for your reference.

I performed an individual vacuum test of AJ2 and AJ3 solenoids, and both hold vacuum as required. HOWEVER, when performing the tests according to pages 4-50 and 4-51, AJ2 solenoid is OPEN while at 800 RPM (IDLE) when it should be closed. When I apply at least 7.9 InHg to the ECU, AJ2 then closes and no vacuum is lost. However, while at idle, and since I am below 1,000 feet above sea level (about 383 feet ASL), according to the chart, AJ2 and AJ3 should be closed with 0 InHg applies to the ECM. Mind you this is with the bike at idle 800 RPM, both valves should be closed since I am below 1,000 feet ASL, although the manual states this depends on the altitude pressures.

I place my hand on AJ2 and shut off the bike, I do not feel a change. I place my hand on AJ2 and start the bike, I feel a slight click but not too heavy as it does when I apply 7.9 InHG to the ECU. Run the RPM to 2,000 RPM and both AJ2 and AJ3 click (as in open), when according to the manual, AJ3 shouldn't open at all. So both AJ2 and AJ3 are opening nearly at the same time between 7.9 InHg and 15 InHg applied to the ECU or when RPM is increased to 2,000 RPM.

The test is somewhat confusing. But in a nutshell, my problem appears to be AJ2 is opening at all times while at idle (800 RPM's) even though the valve itself is not actually clicking open. Yet apply a little pressure to the ECU (7.9 InHg), and then AJ2 snaps/clicks closed when even at idle it is supposed to be closed. But when it closes, vacuum pressure is still lost. Shut down the bike, and all of a sudden AJ2 is fully closed and vacuum pressure is maintained.

To make it easier to understand, AJ2 should ONLY OPEN with 7.9 InHg applied to ECU and RPM reaches 2,000, this according to both charts. AJ3 should always be closed since I believe 1,000 feet ASL (I believe this is correct; correct me if I'm wrong). Thus, AJ2 should only open when RPM reaches 2,000 on both charts, respective of their vacuum applications to the ECU.

Unless I'm in error, it sounds as though AJ2 is receiving a faulty signal for some reason to slightly open although not all of the way until RPM reach 2,000, or the ECU vacuum reaches at least 7.9 InHg.

Could this be my problem? Or could this be related to a possible vacuum leak somewhere and the ECU is not getting enough vacuum for proper operation.
I cannot say if this is the problem since you are way beyond where I would have been at this point but have you traced all the lines to be sure all of them are where they are supposed to be? None crossed. Have you also checked all of the lines with a vacuum gauge to see if they are producing the vacuum readings they are supposed to at the specified times? I know you are checking all of the solenoids and valves but if the vacuum signals are not right the valves and solenoids will not work even if they test good.
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