Front Brakes on GL1500 - Sidecar+Disability - Page 2 - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 09:22 PM
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I split the brake system on my 94SE. I used a GL 1800 front master cylinder. Had braided SS lines built . Each caliper line up to the master.
On the rear I fabricated a new bracket for two calipers. One caliper run from the original rear line . The second caliper run from the front disc port (proportion valve)of the rear master.
I was happy with how this worked for me.

Brake Pedal on the left .... I'll have to looky at that and report any thoughts.

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 07:40 AM
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Hydraulic fluid is not compressible. If properly bled, there is very little fluid used to activate the brake calipers. As noted, trike conversions will change hand lever to work both front calipers. Also the GL1500 Valkyrie has the hand lever connected to both front calipers. IMHO it's possible to activate all four brakes but you will need a proportional control valve. This however means no secondary system which is why a car has two reservoirs.

You could possibly make a new hand lever sorta like a shift lever on the right side of the bike. With that you would need to release your right grip which might not be a good idea.

Not to minimize or embarrass your condition but do you use a prosthetic leg? Is it possible to modify the brake pedal but keep it on the right side? I'm thinking something larger that you can reach and control.

Another idea is plumb everything into one standalone master cylinder from a car and connect it to the hand lever. Maybe use existing hand lever connected to a slave cylinder to activate the secondary single master cylinder. This unit could even utilize a power assist feature. You should have some space between the right cylinder head and the sidecar to install this setup.

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 01:33 PM
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Sounds like all the options that involve kludging something together would end up costing close to what that dual-lever system costs - and it looks like it has already solved the engineering issues so it's pretty much a plug and play solution.

Alan Hepburn
1994 GL1500SE with a California Sidecar
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DaveO430 View Post
So do the 80-82 1100s but the master cylinder has a bigger bore than the ones with linked brakes. I worked on a 1500 side car rig that had both front brakes on the front MC but it had been bored out to 5/8".

Sorry , I don't understand bored out to 5/8"


Are you saying the shaft that the master cylinder plunger slides through is bored to be a larger diameter ? Then a larger plunger is placed in it. Thus for the same travel, more fluid is displaced ?



Thanks,
John

John
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Sounds like all the options that involve kludging something together would end up costing close to what that dual-lever system costs - and it looks like it has already solved the engineering issues so it's pretty much a plug and play solution.

Agreed, there are some "science project-ty suggestions" which are fun to talk about and great at getting the though process going (can't thank y'all enough! ) But I am still hoping for a simple solution. That dual handle lever thing is really really expensive ...



For example, if this works: A used GL1200 caliper is probably only $100 or so, another couple hundred for some SS lines and we save $1700 over the klever lever ...



I am leaning that direction. A master cylinder that is designed to move enough fluid, in one pull, to move two slave cylinders is I think the simplest, most cost effective first stab at this ... If it does not work, not out too much, and can resell the master cylinder.

John
1995 GL1500 SE
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2014 Honda CTX 700
2015 Ural Sidecar - Gear up Forest Camo
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Andy Cote View Post
Hydraulic fluid is not compressible. If properly bled, there is very little fluid used to activate the brake calipers. As noted, trike conversions will change hand lever to work both front calipers. Also the GL1500 Valkyrie has the hand lever connected to both front calipers. IMHO it's possible to activate all four brakes but you will need a proportional control valve. This however means no secondary system which is why a car has two reservoirs.

You could possibly make a new hand lever sorta like a shift lever on the right side of the bike. With that you would need to release your right grip which might not be a good idea.

Not to minimize or embarrass your condition but do you use a prosthetic leg? Is it possible to modify the brake pedal but keep it on the right side? I'm thinking something larger that you can reach and control.
You bring up a good point Andy.

I have actually not gone in and made absolutely sure the system is in top health. Perhaps the last guy did not get all the air out of the lines ?!?! That needs to be the very fist step; flush out old fluid and make Sure no air is stealing my stopping power !

No worries,
Yes, I do use a prosthetic leg. My residual limb is very short so I have cannot apply any power and have very little control. It is mostly just in the way while riding ...

As to the Hand lever. I have given that a some thought. Sidecars are sometime prone to a front end wobble. If you experience a wobble the remedy is push with both hands Hard. Holding on with one hand will likely lead to an out of control event IMHO.

Sidecars require a lot of manual input, with both arms ... letting one go, especially in a panic stop situation is not advised...
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John
1995 GL1500 SE
2002 Honda VF750c
2014 Honda CTX 700
2015 Ural Sidecar - Gear up Forest Camo
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 03:24 PM
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I believe that some modern bikes use a servo to assist the brakes, would it be possible to fit something like this with a multi outlet master cylinder that will activate both front, the rear & the sidecar from the brake lever?
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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I believe that some modern bikes use a servo to assist the brakes, would it be possible to fit something like this with a multi outlet master cylinder that will activate both front, the rear & the sidecar from the brake lever?

Interesting idea, if it gave enough assistance, perhaps a thumb lever could control something more substantial ....I have never heard of this on a MC, only cars, where is it vacuum assisted. The vacuum could come from the engine, or a small vacuum pump ?



The good news is it is a big sidecar. So there is room to put stuff, where there was no stuff before

John
1995 GL1500 SE
2002 Honda VF750c
2014 Honda CTX 700
2015 Ural Sidecar - Gear up Forest Camo
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jvanhook View Post
Sorry , I don't understand bored out to 5/8"


Are you saying the shaft that the master cylinder plunger slides through is bored to be a larger diameter ? Then a larger plunger is placed in it. Thus for the same travel, more fluid is displaced ?



Thanks,
John
That's exactly right. It appeared to be a stock MC, had 1/2" molded into the body and I had ordered a kit for it but found it didn't fit. I used a kit I had for an 1100 which was the right bore size. I think the valkyre front MC is 5/8 since they don't have linked brakes.

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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 07:09 PM
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First off good on you for keeping on a bike. A average person would give it up. As you go down this path, don't forget the is a leverage ratio at work and master cylinder piston travel at work. It has to do with the diameter of the master cylinder piston and the diameter of the slave (caliper) piston. Honda uses different piston diameters to bias the brake, adjust the lever-pedal pressure and adjust the feel. For example if the diameter of the master cylinder is 16mm the surface area of the master cylinder piston is 2.01 Sq. centimeters. If the diameter if the slave is 37 mm the surface area of the piston is 10.75 Sq. centimeter. This makes an effective ratio of 10.75/2.01 or about 5 to 1. If you add a second slave to the same master the total surface of the slave will be 10.75 x 2 = 21.5. The effective ratio will be about 10 to 1. This will make the brake feel a lot more spongy. The other issue is to move the double slave cylinder, the master piston will need to move twice as far for the slave to move an equal amount. On modern bikes with huge rotors and four to six pot calipers, the ratio is turned way down to give the brake a hard, powerful brake. I would measure the piston diameters, total up the surface area of the slaves and try to keep the ratios close to stock. Just my 2
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