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96 GL1500 Aspencade in FLORIDA

4K views 23 replies 6 participants last post by  jshirk 
#1 ·
I just bought a nonworking Aspencade, knowing that at the very least there is a fuel pump problem. I follow directions on this site to put in a new fuel pump. I took lots of pictures.

well the fuel pump is good and it works if I jump directly from the battery, but I think a sensor is disabling the fuel pump.

I can't see how to post a new topic in the Technical Questions forum!
 
#3 ·
Is this a Honda O.E,M fuel pump? Should get the signal to run from the E.C.M. Once the carbs are primed it should shut off. Does the vacuum fuel shut off valve hold a vacuum? Fuel filter been replaced lately? Do you suspect the bike has been sitting unused for long periods of time?
gumbyred
 
#4 ·
Just so you understand the theory of operation, the pump does not run continuously with the key on. If you take the gas cap off the tank and listen in the tank you should hear this. With the key and kill switch on (active, ready to start) each time you hit the start button the pump should run. (buzz) You should be able to hear it run by listening in the tank each time you hit the start button. When the engine starts it will run constantly. Let us know what you find. :)
 
#5 ·
Well, if power direct from the battery to the pump makes it run, need to look at the power coming from the ECM (on the '96 fuel pump power comes directly from the ECM, no relay). You can listen for the pump running as described above, or just put a voltmeter on the pump power line. Should show power when you hit starter button.

If no power at all coming from ECM, these units are REPAIRABLE, there's a "How-to" somewhere describing replacement of the fuel pump Output transistor either here or at *docs site. We can dig it up if needed. But first check the connectors between the fuel pump and the ECM.... :)
 
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#7 ·
Power to the fuel pump

It seems I'm now cleared to post. It is not possible to add photos because "To be able to post links or images your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 2 posts." Sorry, a dumb rule to tell me about after all the work in uploading them. NOT NICE.

Yes, this bike was sitting unused for quite a few years and there was a pile of rust to clean out of the fuel tank. Also, as a precaution, I removed the spark plugs and fogged the cylinders before ever turning the engine over.


Pump is NAPA OEM replacement, for 89 Accord www DOT napaonline DOT com/en/p/CFPB013H


Fuel filter is new. It is transparent, so I can see when the pump is running.



I'm not aware of the vacuum fuel shutoff valve, or its location. There are several disconnected vacuum hoses.


I first went hunting for the "bank angle" sensor (or "tilt angle" sensor, which makes more sense to me), as this is known to be often defective and under recall up to 1990 (at least), and a known cause for no power to the fuel pump. I assume the ECM decides this. I found it behind the right luggage box, which is quite a pain to remove. Also, you need a 2-foot-long screwdriver to get the back screw out. It is not readily apparent whether it works -shaking it does not tell me anything. Perhaps I can test it with a multimeter or maybe it's worth just getting one online ; they are about $25. Knowing this after replacing the fuel pump, it is probable that original pump was working but anyway it was covered with rust.



Along the way I discovered two wires torn at the throttle body, which I believe have to do with the cruise control. I can ignore this for the time being if it doesn't interrupt the fuel pump.


I don't have a wiring diagram (download links would be welcome, those Helm manuals are pricey!) but I took apart the ECM to get a look at the board. It looks pristine. I took close-up shots to try to determine which pins connect to the bank angle sensor and which connect to the fuel pump.



The two-letter codes and color coded wires are only hints. I got the pin numbers by referring to an ECM cable diagram and using FP as a reference to correlate what is in the photos:


FP : pin 3 => black+blue - this visible +12V at the fuel pump end
PC 2 : pin 8 => white+blue
This is only a guess:
TA : pin 18 => grey (Tilt Angle?)


It is really impossible to see where grey goes without unwrapping all the wiring harnesses.


The bank angle sensor's cable itself has 3 wires: white, green, red+white - but there's no reason to assume they continue this way through the wiring harness.


I look forward to responding 3 more times so you can see my pretty good photos...
 
#9 ·
It seems I'm now cleared to post. It is not possible to add photos because "To be able to post links or images your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 2 posts." Sorry, a dumb rule to tell me about after all the work in uploading them. NOT NICE.
Please try to understand why we have these rules.

before we set up these tiny barriers to anyone posting blindly tither and yond,

we were bombarded by Robots publishing filth and pornography.

we now require that you validate your email,
we require that your first post can only be made in the New Members introduction forum.

and then, you are not approved until a human moderator can read what you say.
We restrict links and photos in the first 5 posts...
This gives the moderators a chance to learn about who you are.

are you a real person with a bike that needs help, or are you a Troll that just wants to advertise filth and vermin?

you made the grade, you are still here....
we have banned many trolls in the last 24 hours.
you will not find any of their child pornography on this forum.
 
#8 ·
If the bank angle sensor is tripped, starter won't even run. Once the bank angle sensor is back in normal position the system can be reset by turning key off then back on, normal operation returns. So since you are able to crank engine, I don't think your bank angle sensor is the problem.

Did you measure any power going to the fuel pump when you hit the starter?

The fuel petcock valve (Vacuum Shutoff valve) is located inside the fuel filler door, right next to the fuel filler (between the gas cap and the radio).

One of our members, Erdeniz Umman, put together a real nice set of color schematics for a '94 Goldwing 1500, covers Interstate, Aspencade and SE models, the schematic likely won't be absolutely 100% exact for the '96, but it will certainly be close enough. These 1500s didn't change much between '93 and '96.

Go to the "Fun Forum" and put a few silly posts under "Last Poster Here" or "Alphabet game" just to get your post count past 10, that may be required to download the PDF's linked to in the thread below... and you'll be able to post pictures.

https://www.goldwingfacts.com/forum...forum/636674-gl1500-color-wiring-diagram.html
 
#10 ·
If you send a PM to https://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/238281-erdeniz-umman.html I am sure he would be happy to send you a link to his wonderful color schematics. FP : pin 3 => black+blue - this visible +12V at the fuel pump end Correct
PC 2 : pin 8 => white+blue Pulse generators. Fuel pump will not run minus these pulses
This is only a guess:
TA : pin 18 => grey (Tilt Angle?) Temperayure, Ambient.
 
#11 ·
Ok, DenverWinger, that's very valuable information. Yes, starter works fine. So I'll just put that bank angle sensor back in.

I don't measure any voltage to the fuel pump because I can see when it runs thanks to the transparent fuel filter. I tested the pump by jumping the battery to it.
 
#17 ·
If you look close the pin out numbers should be there somewhere. On the plug or in the cavity if you unplug. It will be pin #8 WH/BL and will be just a volt or two DC. With a digital meter you will just get a blink. Analog on 0-5 volts will give you better needle sweep but for the most part it is there or not. You will have to check between pin #8 (PG) and common (pin #10) for one PG and pin #9 and pin #10 for the other PG. Check out Erd's color diagram. With the meter connected you should see the meter blink or the needle sweep depending on which meter you use. There are 2 PG's as you can see on the diagram. That is why you check between 9 and 10 also 8 and 10 while cranking the engine with the starter and the ECM unplugged. Might work plugged in but will work unplugged. The wires go from the ECM to the PG's under the plastic timing belt covers where the PG's live..
 
#15 · (Edited)
I looked into the Ignition Pulse Generator...


General info:
https://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30788
One example shows 11-tooth (12 position) rotor and some kind of pickup ; the other example shows a 6-tooth rotor and a 2-in-1 pickup set.



For 83 Aspencade:
https://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20196
Two hall-effect sensors and an eccentric cam.



For 96 SE:
https://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30788
Two hall-effect sensors on opposite sides of an (apparently) 12-position rotor ("trigger wheel"). I'm going to assume my 96 Aspencade looks something like this (when I find it).



I reason that since this detects engine rotation, this should not be interfering with the fuel pump before starting. Everything I've read says that the pump should prime for a few seconds when the ignition is on (and I suppose, the run switch is on). I have not seen this happen on mine.


While I was testing the pump with a jumper to it from the battery, I was getting ignition, but only (poor) combustion on the right side. I think this has nothing to do with ignition coils, as I noticed a lot of fuel dumping out somewhere under the left side. I have yet to trace the source of that leak.
 
#16 ·
Pictures as promised. I hope they help someone in the future.

I got that fantastic wiring diagram by Erdeniz Umman.

C63 depicts the ignition pulse generator as two coils. Even if they are really Hall-Effect sensors, it looks like it will be necessary to check for pulses on both #7 BLU/WHT and #8 WHT/YEL.
 

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#18 ·
@DBohrer sent this, which corresponds to Erdeniz Umman's wiring diagram:


GL1500 ECM Wiring (1992 - 2000)

1. Yellow/red (Connects to an ignition coil)

2. Yellow/blue (Connects to an ignition coil)

3. Yellow/white (Connects to an ignition coil)

4. Black/white (Voltage from the Kill switch) Note: Also goes to all three ignition coils.

5. Green/black (Connects to the “intake air temperature sensor” and the “engine coolant
temperature sensor”) Ground wire...!

6. Green/white (Ground from the side stand switch)

7. White/blue (Connects to the ignition pulse generator) <<--

8..White/yellow (Connects to the ignition pulse generator) <<--

9. Pink/white (Connects to the engine coolant temperature sensor) Signal wire....!

10. Green/orange (Signal from the gear position sensor, 5th "OD” gear)

11. Light green/red (Signal from the gear position sensor, neutral position)

12. White/red (Signal from the gear position sensor, 3rd gear)

13. Red/white (Signal from the gear position sensor, 4th gear)

14. Green (Ground from the frame) <<--

15. Black/yellow (Signal from the gear position sensor, 2nd gear)

16. Red/white (Connects to the Carb air jet 2)

17 Red (Connects to the Carb air jet 3)

18. Gray (Connects to the intake air temperature sensor) Signal wire...!

19. Yellow/blue (Signal to the tachometer)

20. Black/red (Connects to the par solenoid valve)

21. Blue/black (Power “voltage” to the fuel pump)

22. White/black (Connects to the cruise control unit)


What I ended up doing with the information I had at the time, was proceed with the Pulse Generator Check (pic below)


I got open circuit (infinity) between both pulse gen wire pairs:



BLU & WHT/BLU (#7)
YEL & WHT/YEL (#8)


Following that wire leads to approximately where those pulse generators are, behind the front engine cover. My next challenge is getting that off without unnecessarily disconnecting too much stuff.


I was really hoping that simply removing that round, 3-bolt cover would give access to the pulse generators, but there's a disc that looks to have to do with crankshaft or belt timing, so I thought I'd better not loosen that until I find out more...
 

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#19 ·
Have we confirmed there's no spark while cranking? If you have spark, the pulse generators are not your problem....
 
#21 ·
Okay, back to the initial problem then, fuel pump not running. While cranking, if the ECM is making spark, it should also be sending power to the fuel pump. on the '96 it does not send any power to the pump until you hit the "Start" button. Check the fuel pump power with your volt meter when you press the start button, if no power, check the fuel pump terminal at the ECU. If there's power there when you press start, the ECU is OKAY and you need to trace the wiring back to the pump for a bad connection. If no power at the ECU, then the fuel pump "Drive" transistor in the ECU is blown (right-most power transistor seen in your ECU photo) and needs replaced. There's a thread describing the repair and a good replacement transistor to use.....
 
#23 ·
It looks as if I fried my ECM.

before I unplugged it a couple weeks ago, I had starter, ignition, and the cruise control light test.

Now, none of those.

Now with ignition switch on, there is 12V at the ECM pin marked "5" and I hear the starter relay click when I press the start button. 15A ignition fuse is fine.

A friend told me I probably fried it while disconnecting the ECM without first disconnecting the battery.

Along the way I discovered that the 96's wiring at the ECM plug is different than the diagram for a 94, beware.
 
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