GL1500 Starting / Lighting Problem - Help Please!! - Page 5 - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #41 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DBohrer View Post
Saddlebag and trunk lights were not installed on 1988 - 2000 Gold Wing's at the assembly plant.

Honda did have saddlebag lights (see attached) that could be installed by owners.

There were a couple aftermarket companies that made saddlebag and trunk lights that could be installed by owners.
Hi DBohrer

Thanks for that information. I really didn't know this. I'm just wondering why these should illuminate on their own when the ignition key is turned to it's first position. Is this correct I ask myself or incorrectly wired into the loom? Something else I just want to check at this stage
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post #42 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by chris301up View Post
Hi DBohrer

Thanks for that information. I really didn't know this. I'm just wondering why these should illuminate on their own when the ignition key is turned to it's first position. Is this correct I ask myself or incorrectly wired into the loom? Something else I just want to check at this stage
To be as clear as possible I would say I would not be surprised if the saddlebag lights were on in any position except for the offf position where you can remove the key. If you have the key in your pocket and any lights are on you have trouble. Other than that I would not worry about the amp or so it takes in any other position. You won't have it in that position very long or often unless you forget. Your battery is no good if you see 9.4 when cranking with it charged. You must have 10 volts minimum. Does the bike spin over then start when you release the key? That is a sign of aa failing battery.

Mike

Worked on the "big rigs" for 45 years now just riding my Wing whenever I can. Gets cold in Wisconsin.
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post #43 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 01:15 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by redwing52 View Post
............ Does the bike spin over then start when you release the key?
Redwing. Do you mean "does the bike spin over then start when you release the starter button"? If so, then yes. It has always done that since I've had it.
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post #44 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 02:55 AM
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This Post is Confusing ! ! !



1. I hear things like Battery Is discharging

1 a. How do you know ?



2. Battery load test shows 12.x volts after on a charge

2a. A battery has 6 cells . each only produces 2.1 volts 2.1x6 = 12.6 volts fully charged

2b. You see 13.2v or what ever because it was just charged

2c. When test a battery that has been just charged , they tell you to knock off surface charge with carbon pyle style tester. Then retest .



3. Electronic battery tester

3a. if you use an electronic battery tester be sure and clip it on LEAD ONLY or it WILL Be False

don't believe me go to manufacture website.

3b. Also you must tell the electronic tester machine, what kind of battery it is , or it will be false .



4. Lights on all the time

4a. With Key off ????

4b. I never met a road bike that did not have lights on with it running , but I maybe wrong
4c. I explained how to check for a draw

4d. Does it start ???


5. A lot of folks trying to help but I think ( no offense this has gone off the rails ) I think everyone is confused, especially those trying to help .


6. Does it start after a fully charged battery ?



if no



Then You have to pick your Battles it only make sense to fix that first.

often solving one issue fixes another .



If Bike does not start , I would start there ( no pun)



Substitute a battery , or Jump start Bike , or Take Battery to a place that can test it.


If Bike starts .....then your dim lights could be a bad ground or maybe you like the others said burned a relay contact maybe when touching pins with your meter and shorted something.



Again if bike starts , do my test light trick (parasitic draw test) , this will isolate which circuit is drawing when key is off ( I think, I'm sure. I read you said lights stay on with key off but are dim) ( see my previous post)



Neutral light acting quirky as well , often multiple problems indicate some sort of ground or short problem.


Improvise , you could put motorcycle battery in your car and just see if headlights work on car , to get an idea if battery will light headlamps.



If you have a bad ground on your bike , you may never get bike to start , or good headlights .....making you think its the battery. Prove its the battery , put it in your car

and see if headlights come on . ( i know it wont start the car , but 12v headlights are about the same) Or have battery tested.

You know, windows didn't get that bad over night! It took fifteen years of careful development!

Last edited by AzHonda; 03-01-2019 at 03:28 AM.
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post #45 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 03:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHonda View Post
This Post is Confusing ! ! !



1. I hear things like Battery Is discharging

1 a. How do you know ?



2. Battery load test shows 12.x volts after on a charge

2a. A battery has 6 cells . each only produces 2.1 volts 2.1x6 = 12.6 volts fully charged

2b. You see 13.2v or what ever because it was just charged

2c. When test a battery that has been just charged , they tell you to knock off surface charge with carbon pyle style tester. Then retest .



3. Electronic battery tester

3a. if you use an electronic battery tester be sure and clip it on LEAD ONLY or it WILL Be False

don't believe me go to manufacture website.

3b. Also you must tell the electronic tester machine, what kind of battery it is , or it will be false .



4. Lights on all the time

4a. With Key off ????

4b. I never met a road bike that did not have lights on with it running , but I maybe wrong
4c. I explained how to check for a draw

4d. Does it start ???


5. A lot of folks trying to help but I think ( no offense this has gone off the rails ) I think everyone is confused, especially those trying to help .
Hi. I have tried to detail the symptoms but I'm generally not very good at this.

How do I know the battery discharges? Right, with the battery fully charged, connected to the bike and, with a multi-meter connected across the poles of the battery, switching the key to the first position causes the saddlebag lights to illuminate and, after a few minutes the battery will discharge very quickly. Hence the reason why I was thinking there may be a short within the circuit, particularly has this occurred whilst I was testing the trailer wiring circuit at the socket!

From fully charged the bike will initially start but obviously after a few attempts there is insufficient power remaining for it to continue starting. On having the battery tested the charge, although dropping slightly, remained steady thus resulting in a good battery report. I understand this is not the best way of testing this has it really needs to be under load to give a more accurate indication of its overall condition. This is why I prefer to use the Durite tester has it actually shorts the battery terminals directly, thus creating a 'false' load in theory. Unfortunately, I don't know of anywhere that use these now as they are now illegal to use in the UK due to past injuries caused by misuse.

My previous 'Wing was a 2000SE European spec and the lights would only operate with a switch located under the horn button. It's not a 'legal requirement' to ride in the UK with the lights on, although highly recommended. Personally I would prefer to be able to switch them on and off as necessary. In fact, not too long ago I was looking for a switch for this very purpose, but never found one.

I did briefly attempt a 'draw test' but, with the saddlebag lights illuminating, the test lamp was continually on once the key was turned to the first position onwards. I just thought this test wasn't worth continuing with. Perhaps I'm wrong here?

I don't know if this clarifies the situation or not, but I can only detail these details as I see them?
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post #46 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by chris301up View Post
Redwing. Do you mean "does the bike spin over then start when you release the starter button"? If so, then yes. It has always done that since I've had it.
You will see a difference when you put the new battery in. That battery is weak. Very, very common sign of battery or the way out. I suspect the battery went dead when you were checking the trailer connection originally and that set the whole thing in motion. Replace the battery and just do one more test. Connect the voltmeter to the new battery and read the voltage with the engine off. Now start the engine and run at a slightly higher idle by adding choke. Is the voltage higher than static voltage was? Is the voltage going up ever so slowly? If the answers are yes you are good to ride.

Mike

Worked on the "big rigs" for 45 years now just riding my Wing whenever I can. Gets cold in Wisconsin.
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post #47 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 11:09 AM
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"I have also noticed that when the ignition is switched off, the lights remain on, although very dimly."




Good or weak battery, this should never happen. Early on someone suggested that, with the key removed, you pull fuses until the lights went out. Did you do this? What was the outcome?

Charlie
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post #48 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 08:56 PM
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With the key in your pocket the lights are on dim? Are you sure you are not seeing a reflection?

Mike

Worked on the "big rigs" for 45 years now just riding my Wing whenever I can. Gets cold in Wisconsin.
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post #49 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-07-2019, 07:30 PM
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Battery/ starting/

AzHonda had the proper test procedure with the test lamp. Hook it in series(like a fuse) on the negative side of battery. Any parasitic load on the battery will appear as a lit test lamp. Remove fuses or disconnect items, one at a time, until light goes out. This will locate the circuit.


The type of problem you describe can be caused by a backfeed, usually caused by some green fuzzy connection or a module or relay bad ground. Sometimes backfeeds can be the fault of something as simple as the two filaments of a bulb touching after the one breaks off the common lead inside the bulb. This would connect the park lamps to the brake lamps circuit, placing voltage on an unintended path.


FYI A fully charged battery will read between 12.7 and 13.2 depending on how much of the flash charge has been drained off.

A discharged (in need of charge) will test 12.5 on a voltmeter. Load testing can be done with either style of load tester that was shown in earlier post. Or you can rig up several headlamp bulbs as a load. What you want to see is a voltage that drops from the 12.7 to the 12.5 slowly, and will recover to somewhere over 12.5 after load is removed. Voltage from 13.2 to 12.7 will drop fairly quickly as this is the flash charge(surface charge).


Some modules, radio memory, ECU, FCM may have keep alive memory. Which can appear as a parasitic load, barely lighting the test lamp. If you leave the test lamp hooked up as described, and use a piece of wiring to temporarily jump across the test lamp leads. This should furnish enough current to turn off the module(draw). After removing wire but keeping test lamp connected, the lamp should stay out.


Low battery voltage, poor grounds, crusty green connections, added equipment can all cause a power drain situation. A process of elimination of curcuits is the only way you can find/fix these problems.

MGK
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post #50 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 01:33 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardGKrebbs View Post
AzHonda had the proper test procedure with the test lamp. Hook it in series(like a fuse) on the negative side of battery. Any parasitic load on the battery will appear as a lit test lamp. Remove fuses or disconnect items, one at a time, until light goes out. This will locate the circuit.


The type of problem you describe can be caused by a backfeed, usually caused by some green fuzzy connection or a module or relay bad ground. Sometimes backfeeds can be the fault of something as simple as the two filaments of a bulb touching after the one breaks off the common lead inside the bulb. This would connect the park lamps to the brake lamps circuit, placing voltage on an unintended path.


FYI A fully charged battery will read between 12.7 and 13.2 depending on how much of the flash charge has been drained off.

A discharged (in need of charge) will test 12.5 on a voltmeter. Load testing can be done with either style of load tester that was shown in earlier post. Or you can rig up several headlamp bulbs as a load. What you want to see is a voltage that drops from the 12.7 to the 12.5 slowly, and will recover to somewhere over 12.5 after load is removed. Voltage from 13.2 to 12.7 will drop fairly quickly as this is the flash charge(surface charge).


Some modules, radio memory, ECU, FCM may have keep alive memory. Which can appear as a parasitic load, barely lighting the test lamp. If you leave the test lamp hooked up as described, and use a piece of wiring to temporarily jump across the test lamp leads. This should furnish enough current to turn off the module(draw). After removing wire but keeping test lamp connected, the lamp should stay out.


Low battery voltage, poor grounds, crusty green connections, added equipment can all cause a power drain situation. A process of elimination of curcuits is the only way you can find/fix these problems.
Just an update

Sorry I haven't posted for a few days, the weather in the UK has prevented me from doing any further work on the bike. What I can say is that I have received and fitted a new gel battery and that seems to have sorted most, if not all of the problem.

I had to remove the saddlebags to access the wiring, particularly to the trailer, and have been going through any accessory wiring that may have been added prior to my purchase. I have come across an issue with wiring to lighting that is fitted beneath the trailer hitch. This has been spliced into the wiring loom behind the L/H bottom corner panel with another wire from the same connection running up and spliced into the L/H stop & tail light in the top box lighting. However, when I disconnect this and reconnect the standard wiring the fuse in that circuit blows.

This could easily be the root of the problem, particularly with this extra wire running from the left hand saddlebag lighting to the left hand stop & tail light? Remember I mentioned that these lights stayed on with the ignition off? Could this be a 'back feed'? Just don't know how, or where other owners have tried to access power for lighting and accessories.

I will investigate further and post my findings when the weather improves. Thanks all for the information and help so far.
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