Car tire wont set bead on 84 GL (sigh) - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 03:25 AM Thread Starter
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Year: 84
Make: Aspencade
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Car tire wont set bead on 84 GL (sigh)

I so wanted to have it work.... dish soap/GOOP on the tires bead, 90 PSI, in the sun to warm up where it is almost too hot to touch and... ~1/4 of the bead will NOT seat. U tube video showed it would, with used tire, but why put a used tire on something that is such a chore to get on/off the bike with all the Tupperware?


guy on U tube video was BRAVE... beating on the tire with ax handle with 90PSI in the tire to get it to seat???? that didn't do anything, they just let it sit with 90 PSI in the tire and came back in 20 mins and it was seated? lucky them. tire shop wouldn't even put ANY air in it, but the beads started to seat right away, that was good and was hopeful that it would seat all the bead... but it didn't. I will let it sunbathe one more day and then I suppose I will chalk it up to "lessons learned"?


I only do it cuz the Shinko 230 Tourmaster lasted 5 yrs with min mileage, tread started to come unglued from cord. I know that 5 yrs from DOT stamp is realistic safe end of a tires life; but I have some 2003 tires on the car that are still pretty good... sidewalls are drying out/cracking a little (TIRE SHINE "fixes" that), but tread is good and tread is still attached to cord. 55-60 MPH is fast enuf on tires like that for vehicle that goes ~100 miles a month.


point being... car tires, to me, wud be the logical choice for ppl that don't want to mess with the rear tire... for a long time and the WEIGHT on the bike/RIDER. Shinko Tourmaster 230 was rated for ~1100# and it came apart, I have kenda Cruz tire... its weight limit is ~800??? the bike itself weighs ~800#. nice looking tire and all, but 800# wt limit? of course the e bay description had all kinds of SUPERFLOUS information... but NOT the WEIGHT CAPACITY OF THE TIRE?


if I cld find a machinist with a lathe to machine the rim down to car tire size, and it wouldn't cost too much, I wud have the wheel machined for car tire. how much to take off and where??? safety inner bead cut down? whole rim machined down... 1/16"... 3/16"? put a placard on the glove box lid that reads, "MC equipped with CAR TIRE, HANDLING IS EFFECTED, BE CAREFUL TIL U FIGURE OUT ITS HANDLING QUIRKS. WHEEL MACHINED FOR CAR TIRE, DO NOT mount MC tire on the back of this bike" for next owner...if there is a next owner.


back brake cylinders were STUCK too, no wonder the brake pads were lasting forever. slight pitting in the cylinder bore/chrome hardfacing flaked of in a few small places. got new/used caliper off e bay from 9x GL, same kind as 84 GL. of course will rebuild the caliper/sanded pistons with 2000 grit sandpaper, new piston seals as brakes are kinda nice to have.


anti seize on everything, sliding pins, spring in back of pads, bolt holes.... but not on the pads... if I can help it.


I hung the rear hose above the master cylinder as I read somewhere that if get air in the... proportioning valve? it is a bear to bleed the system. 1" bore plastic farm syringe to suck the fluid out of master cylinder, so don't run old nasty fluid thru the system, and clear plastic hose to suck the fluid thru the line from master cylinder to rear caliper. Teflon tape on bleeder screw threads so don't suck air past threads on bleeder screw. even the caliper I got off newer bike (with 25,000 miles) seemed to have TIGHT fitting pistons in caliper... and lots of brake material on the pads like they weren't working that well, or rider just used front brake? assumption would be ppl use foot pedal brake for slowing/stopping ~99% of the time.


I use front brake (weight shift to front of bike)... and I had my suspicions that the rear brake was just an ornament from LOTS OF pedal movement, not the ... 1/2" or so that a person would expect for the brakes to be applied. im sure master cylinder is next when pushed the master cylinder piston rubbers thru the rust at the end of the stroke of the master cylinder and it chewed up the master cylinder piston rubbers in rusted bore master cyl? watched U tube MotoGP riding instructor tell the class, "forget about that rear brake" (cuz if it locks up... high side?). and those riders are "carrying" the rear tire into turns so back tire isn't going to do much braking when it is in the air.


FOLLOWING DISTANCE ... a block in town and a mile on the highway, NOT "nutt to butt" at any speed so can be the FIRST ONES TO THE ACCIDENT. too old and busted to be anymore old and busted. That's all I have to say abt that, Forrest, Forrest Gump.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 04:47 AM
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If the bead ever does seat, it will never come off. Which means if the tire does flat by road hazard, old age or what ever, just throw the tire & rim away.

Carl

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 06:08 AM
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It works for some, some it don't. I blew up a car tire trying to put it on a 1200 rim.

With no God over the state, the state then becomes not the defender of liberty but the definer of liberty.


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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 06:23 AM
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You mention GOOP and machining of the rim so I would conclude you have read the many, many posts regarding DARKSIDE tires on a GL1200. The 15" wheel and tire combination has provided some folks a real challenge where others have had no issues. Not sure how you got that hot in the sun this time of year. I would not go higher on the pressure.

You can try polishing the wheel with Scotchbrite or similar product.

Before I spent money on machining, I would look into swapping to a 16" GL1500 wheel. There are posts on this and the 16" Austone tire is fantastic.
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Previously: GL1200 Standard, GL1200 Interstate, GL1500, Valkyrie, Valkyrie Interstate many other Hondas

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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Yup, I was hopeful, used dremel with 80 grit sanding drums on it to slightly machine the inner bead down and take a little material off the bead figuring that is all that it wud need for the $56 165 65 15 tire to fit, but that didn't work either. well lubricated, in the sun so it was pretty warm and 80-90 PSI and the bead DID NOT SEAL on ~ 1/3 of the tire.


I seen pix of blown out sidewalls on tires on some site regarding putting car tires on bikes/GL's. that is a LOT OF FORCE when it goes and I don't want my head/arm taken off by an exploding tire. I have cheated death/dismemberment/immolation too many times in life to "stick it out there and DARE someone to take it off" as the saying goes. $56 wasted on cut bead tire that is no good for return. lessons learned. 15.008 is not ~14.898" or was it 14.988"? so little that I had a hard time doing the math on it to figure out how much material to take off ALL AROUND the wheel to make 15.008 into ~14.988, which to most ppl would be nothing.... oh well, 5 yrs a tire is considered no good, regardless of mileage as rubber is dried out; in my case tread came unglued from cord @ <4000 miles.


under pressure? (~36 PSI)... for wt on bike (max weight for bike, NOT TIRE that was rated for 1100# at MAX PRESSURE, but the rear only carries ~2/3 of the bikes weight (shd weigh the front/back of bike with me on it at truck stop, but don't know if scales that are made to weigh 80K# are sensitive enough for ~800#?) so... doesn't/shouldn't need so much pressure and is easier on my aching back on rough roads?). car tire max load 1200#.


apparently, some of us, have to machine the wheel just a LITTLE BIT to get the tire to fit on the wheel, but who does that work and how much $ is involved... more than it is worth? as most lathes are made to make little things. cant use a grinder on the wheel. A LOT of dremel work and a LOT of 80 grit sanding drums? it SEEMS that with an hour or so with Dremel and sanding drums could take off ~.009" of material off the alum wheel? still not right... unbalanced/out of round wheel... noticeable?


OH, how I WANTED it to work, but alas it did not. just saying. Ur mileage may vary. differences in diff types of tires, manufacture of the wheels humidity, ... ~90 PSI is as far as I would go and leaving it out in the sun for a day and still bead would NOT seat, even after messaging inner bead and bead seat area for an hour+ with dremel and ~18 of the 80 grit sanding drums in 1/2", 3/8" and 1/4" sizes.


maybe more work to bead on wheel would have worked but it is hard to put the material back on the wheel after it has been removed and no way to measure the amt of material taken off to know when to say WHEN. mounting the tire with tire spoons is a 2 MAN job as that 3rd hand/ arm is a little slow in coming. mounting the tire without machine (bike shops wont do it, generally, car tire shops use spoons as wheel wont work on their machines, generally, and still the tire store DOES NOT WANT TO DO, but might. NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED!!!!) cutting/ruining the bead area of the tire, allowing air/moisture in between the rubber and the cord to facilitate separation of tread from cord. Ford Exploder and Tirestone? =TPMS Tire Pressure monitoring Systems
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 10:38 PM
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Throwing this out there for thought. I know many are against car tires in the first place, and if you are, mosey on down to the next post. Has anyone thought about judicially removing a little of the tire? Part of the seating problem may be the inner part trying to fit over the bulge. It’s not visible so you don’t think of it. I’ll add a pic from the naysayers files. It wouldn’t take much (red arrow and line) to get it to fit and I am not positive, but doubt you’d hit cords. Too much and it might not want to stay on in the corners. It would have to be a measured amount. The blue that this same pic highlights as a negative for car tires is tight as can be on my 2000, 1500 rear rim.

I have not tried this.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
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I took the dremel to it with 80 grit sanding drums to put a 45* bevel on the inner bead to try to get the tire over that bead. nothing changed. still ~1/3 of tire would not seat. I took dremel to the tire mounting surface to clean it up and take a LITTLE material off figuring that it just needs a LITTLE material off to have the tire POP on the bead=nothing, same thing, bead would NOT seat for the ~1/4 of the bead/tire on either side.


I was scared to go past the point of NO RETURN with the dremel and not be able to get either car or MC tire on the wheel. maybe I shd have been brave and just kept going and going and going with the dremel and 80 grit sanding drums and mount/dismount the car tire til it went on the wheel???? but new/ used wheels are not too cheap @ $120~ on e bay and I had already thrown good money after bad by ... possibly ruining the car tire getting it on/off the wheel and ripped the outer bead area of the new CT (from tire spoons? that is a 3 hand operation to get any tire over the wheels bead and a TRUE exercise in PATIENCE). 90 PSI was as high as I was willing to go, if tire BLOWS and it is on ground/against something (wall) the tire/wheel is going to go SOMEWHERE and a persons head/arm/hand is RIGHT THERE (unless get one of those air up things that has the lock on it to lock it to the valve stem, which I have, but doesn't work right). set regulator on compressor for... whatever, put tire somewhere that if it blows up no one gets hurt. I don't have anyone to drive me to ER and ins co is funny abt ER 45 min (5 min w/ dr) visits @ $1500+


I spent.... ~1.5 hours with the dremel and ~18 sanding drums whittling on the wheel. I had more dremel sanding drums, can get 100 from HK/china for $3/pack (get 2 packs, they don't last long)... actually they went up... tariffs? inflation? if a person had the patience to sit there and whittle away for... 2-3 hours with 100 sanding drums the CT might go right on the wheel. I don't think a person would make the wheel out of round or make the wheel weaker with the minimal amt of material a person needs to take off to make a 15.008" wheel into a 14.988" wheel, or whatever the measurement is, it isn't much. maybe I shd have whittled away more on it? but bike has been down for ... a while now and I wud like to ride it to stretch its legs.


it wudnt start til I poured a little gas down its throat from sitting for a while now... last year when starter (I thought) went flat... but battery was discharged from sitting? going to put a battery cut off switch on the L side saddle bag with 6 GA wire so can turn off the battery when it isn't in use for a while... and in case of electrical fire with OLD bike with some... aftermarket wiring for xmas lights. the plug in for the starter relay thing next to battery had gotten HOT and melted the plastic plug a little. I used grease to protect the plug ins from corrosion. dielectric grease probably wud have been better, but grease is grease, to me. seems to work ok, bike started. coil over rear shocks squeak? but the back shocks were BLOWN so they had to GO. Diff oil topped off with a touch of 2-3 oz of STP oil treatment, splines greased... now... road test


oh well, put a bike tire on it, good for 5 years before the tire dries out or the bike has some kind of expensive failure that makes it economically not worth fixing. ignition pick ups? on back of motor on the 84, on front of motor on 85 onward.


I pressure washed bike ONCE with pressure washer, rode it a short while and then it DIED, nothing... but crank, crank, crank. towed it back to place, put it to bed, came back in a week, came right back to life like nothing happened???? don't trust the bike very far now, have tow strap in trunk. need AAA PREMIUM $110/yr good for 200 mile tow range.


AAA regular is only good for 5 mile tow range and then... $5/mile after that? WOW! it is cheaper, AAA regular, $60? ask them to waive the initiation fee of $20? good for gas, jump start, lock out, tow and other stuff and good for using when in other ppls cars. only 4 uses a yr and then no more uses til one of the "uses" rolls off the yearly calendar. oh I wanted it to work. oh well, had $100 MC tire already so take the "hit" on the $56 CT... and $10 to take it to shop to have them mount it the first time. tire spoons $11 on e bay put to work removing tire and putting MC tire on (GET HELP when u do that for the 3rd hand/arm that is NEEDED). That is all I have to say about that, Forrest, Forrest Gump.



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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekvh1 View Post
Throwing this out there for thought. I know many are against car tires in the first place, and if you are, mosey on down to the next post. Has anyone thought about judicially removing a little of the tire? Part of the seating problem may be the inner part trying to fit over the bulge. Itís not visible so you donít think of it. Iíll add a pic from the naysayers files. It wouldnít take much (red arrow and line) to get it to fit and I am not positive, but doubt youíd hit cords. Too much and it might not want to stay on in the corners. It would have to be a measured amount. The blue that this same pic highlights as a negative for car tires is tight as can be on my 2000, 1500 rear rim.

I have not tried this.
No, that wouldn't help get it to seat. Then after it is seated it is NOT coming off (as claimed by naysayer) unless it goes flat and probably not even then.

With no God over the state, the state then becomes not the defender of liberty but the definer of liberty.


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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 11:19 AM
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I tend to be a bit of a risk taker. I worked at a tire shop when I was still in high school and I have to say STOP! The energy in that tire at that much pressure is equal to a 1/2 stick of dynamite. When and if it pops it might not pop it might very well explode. The tire is way over the force it was designed for as well as the wheel. Please just be safe. If you insist on doing this put the tire a long way from you and go hide in a building. Clip on the air chuck then go plug in the air hose to the quick coupler. It is quite possible you have damaged the structure of the tire already. We had an accident locally where a truck tire blew up at a local gas station. Killed one man who was working on it them flew out where his son was pumping gas and killed him as well.

Mike

Worked on the "big rigs" for 45 years now just riding my Wing whenever I can. Gets cold in Wisconsin.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 01:48 PM
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Whenever I had to work on a truck tire with infamous "safety ring", I would put the tire on the floor under the arms of the car hoist, hook up the hose, turn on the compressor and go hide in the office. When I heard it POP, I would turn off the air to the hose, go across the street and have a cup of coffee. After putting the tire back on the truck or semi, would thank whatever diety watches over fools and gas station flunkies for sparing me for another day.
I also made it a point to get clear of any truck in the lane next to me on the highway. Still makes me nervous when I'm beside one.

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