GL1500- Do I have an OverCharging Issue - Page 2 - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 08:07 AM
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First thing I would check is for voltage drops across all connections between battery, alternator, and ground. No connection should produce more than .1 (one tenth) of a volt drop. Ideally voltage should be the same everywhere in the circuit.
If that checks OK, I would think that the battery is degrading, Your voltage reading is dependent on the load placed on the alternator. In an older battery, repeated charging and discharging produces a coating on the plates, and this reduces the ability to accept a charge. It becomes more of a Capacitor than a power/load source. Also AGM batteries have different charging needs.
I am not familiar with your alternator setup, single wire or second lead to regulator? If single wire, probably no problem. If it has second wire, then again, connections are important.
A 90 amp alternator is a large output value for a motorcycle battery, but that amperage is only realized as loads from accessories, lights, and ignition are placed in the circuit.
After starting, the battery is briefly in a discharged state. At that point, it's voltage is lower than the alternator voltage. It is presenting a "load", once the battery voltage equals the alternator voltage, and that voltage is equal to the regulated voltage, all charging should taper off. 14.2 volts is all that is needed to satisfy a healthy battery. Very small resistances in the charging circuit can cause the "load" to be false, allowing the voltage to rise.

Before the days of electronics, some mechanics would start the engine, then disconnect the battery, if the engine died, then they assumed the alternator was bad. This is not a good thing for electronic circuits because if the alternator is OK, it's output voltage will run "wild" because of lack of load from that battery. Using the electronic circuits a load, for voltages >16 volts.
Does your motorcycle have a tendency to drain the battery when not running? I ask this because you said you have a battery tender. Some are good, others only amount to a 1 amp continuous charger, with no regulation. This promotes the "plate coating" I spoke of earlier. A proper tender should be active, shut off at a given voltage, turn on a given voltage. 12.7-14.2.

MGK
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Does your motorcycle have a tendency to drain the battery when not running? I ask this because you said you have a battery tender. Some are good, others only amount to a 1 amp continuous charger, with no regulation. This promotes the "plate coating" I spoke of earlier. A proper tender should be active, shut off at a given voltage, turn on a given voltage. 12.7-14.2.

I guess the short answer would be YES. The bike will sit from November to the end of March, so I'm sure that there would be some battery drain. That is why the "Battery Tender Plus". It has done a great job over the years to keep all of my batteries fresh. I actually have four various models of "Battery Tenders" in use on different bikes or tractors throughout the year. And yes they do regulate the charge cycle.


http://products.batterytender.com/Ch...derR-Plus.html


As for the connections, I will go back and check for loose or oxidized connections, just to be sure. I am leaning toward the battery starting to fail, although it does currently turnover and start the bike quite well.



It just seems the battery draws more of a charge at startup than I would think the internal regulator should be putting out. I kind of expected the voltage regulator to limit the output to somewhere around 14.5 to 14.8 volts max. Maybe it's just me thinking the output voltage should be lower than the initial 15.1 volts. That is based on the years of seeing my output voltage hovering around 14.1 to 14.3 volts continually.


Thanks for you input, DJ
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 09:11 PM
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I'm thinking that 15.1 is erroneous.


use a high quality DVM and verify what you are seeing measured across the battery terminals.

~ John


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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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I'm thinking that 15.1 is erroneous.


use a high quality DVM and verify what you are seeing measured across the battery terminals.

AZ if you don't mind my asking what do you consider being a high quality DVM. I may have to track something different down. I have used Fluke DVM's across the batteey. I thought that they would give me an accurate reading.


I realize it is mainly used to measure AC and frequencies but, it will also measure DC voltage. I'm am about to break out the RIGOL oscilloscope to see if I get a different reading with it across the battery.


Would like to get to the bottom of this issue...


Thanks, DJ
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 10:13 PM
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I would say battery on it's way out. 5 years is the most I have gotten out of a good quality sealed battery. It just sound like the battery is demanding more power to charge because it is on it's way out.


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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 10:24 PM
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.


The on bike meter has now been verified with 3 different digital voltmeters, two of them being known good, high end, Fluke meters. The readings have only varied by .1 to .2 volts from the meter on the bike.
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I'm thinking that 15.1 is erroneous.


use a high quality DVM and verify what you are seeing measured across the battery terminals.
Flukes are pretty good meters John.

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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 01:11 AM
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Fluke meters are one of my standards in the industry, I don't recall the brand being mentioned in this thread. if it has, I overlooked it.



but, even the el cheapo DVM sold by Harbor Freight is pretty darn close. I have one of those, and it reads real close to my Fluke


by "quality", that means an instrument of known calibration that reads consistently.

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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 10:06 AM
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I'm sure you have another 12V battery (car, truck, riding mower....), why not disconnect the bike battery and jumper in another for test? Then you will know if it's the battery or the bike.

Charlie
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 10:10 AM
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One thing you could try to confirm suspicions about battery, would be to hook up another battery with jumpers and then check charging voltage. If your present battery is rejecting charge, then the addition of the second should drop the voltage. All alternators produce AC before it is rectified to DC. In the process, the negative pulse of the AC wave is clipped off at the 0 volt line. The alternator has 3 phases, each phase is 120 degrees later than the last. The phases fill in the timeline with only the positive pulses, since the negative one are blocked by the diodes. This would be seen as a series of Camel hump shaped pulses all slightly overlaid (delayed) in time. The peak voltage would be higher than the average( the point were all the lines cross). The load that the battery presents to the alternator tends to pull the peak voltage closer to the average. A battery that has developed a coating on the plates cannot except voltage as a charge. That is what I meant earlier when I said it acts more like a capacitor than a battery.

I think if you had an ammeter in the circuit, you would see a higher voltage with a lower amperage.

MGK
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 05:46 PM
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All alternators produce AC before it is rectified to DC. In the process, the negative pulse of the AC wave is clipped off at the 0 volt line. The alternator has 3 phases, each phase is 120 degrees later than the last.
Nope, The rectifier is a three phase bridge, all of the three phase AC (including the negative-going part of the sine wave) is used in making DC! Very efficient!

None of the three legs of the alternator go negative with respect to the Bike's ground because there's no ground reference anywhere in the alternator, even the common point of the three phases floats. Thus the negative-going part of the sine wave is referenced to bike's ground thru the negative-rail diodes in the bridge, thus driving the positive-going legs to an even higher output.
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