86 SEI Running rough suddenly - Page 4 - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #31 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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I think the TPS requires service. I wish I could remove it...

https://youtu.be/yG5S3Naf71s

The above video is a good one indicating issues.

I got rid of my alluminum wings and picked up a Goldwing. Here to live once, die once and give Glory to God while doing it.

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post #32 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by EAGLECRY24 View Post
Throttle rest is measured at 1.06v and full throttle is measured at 4.28v.
The problem you probably have is somewhere between the idle stop and full throttle, thought that 1.06v reading at idle is wrong. it would probably take an oscilloscope to find the bad spot, digital meters just can't be stable enough. A good analog meter might do it though.

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post #33 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 02:18 PM
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I donít see any way to adjust the TPS. I did find water in the cover... Iíll investigate more. See picture and video.

https://youtu.be/gv2ninXGIog

Thereís that Click again. Un-commanded. I monitored the voltage of the TPS output and saw it jumped from 0.48 to 0.7. The resolution of the multimeter doesnít allow for very quick changes.
You have to take out those break off screws but it's probably a bad idea to try to adjust it anyway. Maybe the moisture is causing the problem.

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post #34 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by EAGLECRY24 View Post
I donít see any way to adjust the TPS. I did find water in the cover... Iíll investigate more. See picture and video.

https://youtu.be/gv2ninXGIog

Thereís that Click again. Un-commanded. I monitored the voltage of the TPS output and saw it jumped from 0.48 to 0.7. The resolution of the multimeter doesnít allow for very quick changes.
Since the tps is causing injector click by simply pushing on the wires and loom indicates the tps is malfunctioning. There are two "safety" screws that will need to be drilled out (I'd use a reversible drill with left handed drill bits to extract them). Sure looks like you are going to need a VERY EXPENSIVE throttle switch. Do an internet search for possible cross references with Honda cars and/or aftermarket. One volt is too high to be a factory setting, and since the tamper screws are intact, nobody's fooled with it. Again, you need to take the reading on the pin terminal eleven at the ecu. That's what the computer sees.

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post #35 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGLECRY24 View Post
I don’t see any way to adjust the TPS. I did find water in the cover... I’ll investigate more. See picture and video.

https://youtu.be/gv2ninXGIog

There’s that Click again. Un-commanded. I monitored the voltage of the TPS output and saw it jumped from 0.48 to 0.7. The resolution of the multimeter doesn’t allow for very quick changes.
Since the tps is causing injector click by simply pushing on the wires and loom indicates the tps is malfunctioning. There are two "safety" screws that will need to be drilled out (I'd use a reversible drill with left handed drill bits to extract them). Sure looks like you are going to need a VERY EXPENSIVE throttle switch. Do an internet search for possible cross references with Honda cars and/or aftermarket. One volt is too high to be a factory setting, and since the tamper screws are intact, nobody's fooled with it. Again, you need to take the reading on the pin terminal eleven at the ecu. That's what the computer sees.
I’ll try that. Thanks!!

I got rid of my alluminum wings and picked up a Goldwing. Here to live once, die once and give Glory to God while doing it.

Budd

87 GL1200A
83 Kawi 750K (Twin)
78 Yami XS750 Special (Triple Special)
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post #36 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 08:01 PM
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Listened to your YouTube videos. I've been through my '85 LTD with a fine tooth comb, and I would find an interrelation between the injectors and TPS such as what you have unlikely. Stranger things have happened. Looking at the wiring schematic there is no connection that the TPS and injectors share. Wiggling/moving the TPS wiring may be affecting the injector wiring in the wiring harness, something to check.

The TPS can be an issue. You can use a multimeter as has been mentioned, but a scope is much better. I have a large scope that I am learning to use, but purchased a DSO 138 Oscilloscope (assembled) to check these types of issues, you can get one assembled in an acrylic case. Tried it out today on 4 TPS units I have and found some cannot be used. The QA on these units is not the best. Heat also affects the TPS in that it makes it degrade faster. If the TPS gets too bad, you can have the engine have hard misfires that feel like the engine will stop - BTDT.

I changed the TPS on my '85. I used a Dremel tool to cut a slot in the bolt, and then used a screwdriver to extract the bolts, works well. Once you have the TPS loose you can also try a calibration as well. Attached a picture (poor quality) but you will get the gist of it.

You can use aftermarket TPS units such as this one on eBay: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/TPS-Throttle...BWvT6K&vxp=mtr

You have to a slight modification to make these work. You drill a small hole in the rheostat arm near the end and insert a small screw. For added strength, use JB weld and build up the area around the screw. Keep the JB weld narrow around the screw. There are three pics showing what I did to the aftermarket TPS. The last pic shows the OEM TPS.

The aftermarket TPS mod worked well on an '85 LTD that I brought out from Ontario last June, and put over 8000 Kms on it before I sold the bike. The JB weld gives excellent structural support to the small screw.

If you have the external alt mod, there is more you have to do to make and aftermarket TPS fit, but that is for another day.

Good luck. Cheers
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Break Off Bolts slotted with Dremel.jpg (58.5 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg TPS Arm Mod Distance.jpg (77.9 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg TPS Arm Mod.jpg (50.1 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg TPS Base Mod and Screw Hole.jpg (60.2 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Original TPS Arm.jpg (78.0 KB, 9 views)

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post #37 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Rednaxs60 View Post
Listened to your YouTube videos. I've been through my '85 LTD with a fine tooth comb, and I would find an interrelation between the injectors and TPS such as what you have unlikely. Stranger things have happened. Looking at the wiring schematic there is no connection that the TPS and injectors share.
The connection would be the ecm. If it thinks it sees throttle opening, it will trigger the injectors. Page 10-20 Ltd supplement. If there is water in the connectors or the throttle switch, there would be a reaction. Provided it only happens with the key "on", no start.
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File Type: jpg throt.jpg (170.3 KB, 5 views)

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post #38 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 11:03 PM
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Good catch - my bad. Hopefully not the ECU. The connector under the shelter on the left side of the steering stem can be disconnected to also aid in troubleshooting.

"When writing the story of your life, Don't let anyone else hold the pen"

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post #39 of 45 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 09:29 AM
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The issue I had with the '85 LTD FI I put on the road and rode from Ontario to Victoria BC, a hard misfire is now making sense thanks to eaglecry24 thread and the various posts. Was thinking about this at 0300 this morning - go figure.

I installed a new aftermarket TPS in the '85 LTD prior to the trip across Canada. I was looking at fuel as the culprit, but a member over on the Classic forum mentioned that the symptoms were pointing at the TPS as being the culprit. Still did not change out the TPS because it was new, couldn't be defective. Rode it for some 3000 Km in Ontario and across Canada where, in Brandon Manitoba, I relented and changed out the TPS. Had a spare with me for whatever reason.

The bike would run well above 3800 RPM and in the lower 2000ish range. It did not like the heat of the day either. It ran better when it was cool out, or first thing in the morning, and because of this I was hoping for cool weather, even rain.

I never checked the injector firing as eaglecry24 has done because I was not looking in that direction.

Fuel economy was affected as well.

The TPS failure affected the injector firing and consequently coil firing. After the TPS was changed the difference was dramatic; however, was still gun shy so to speak and waiting for the other shoe to drop, but the rest of the ride to Victoria was great - not counting the severe cross winds that can be encountered crossing the prairies into the mountains.

Back to the issue at hand, TPS replacement.

Cheers

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post #40 of 45 (permalink) Old 05-05-2019, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Just found this on GoldwingDocs:

“I do think you're onto something with the PB's. If you have the sup manual go through the steps in it for the PB system carefully. It's time consuming but can show a lot of small problems, especially if you do the calculations for voltage based on altitude and temperature. some other things to think about though... Do you get high idle when the bike is cold? There is a thermostatically operated air valve which acts as a choke while the bike is cold. There is a sensor on this valve which tells the computer when it's open (cold) and in turn lengthens the duration of injector opening, thus richening the mixture. As the coolant temp rises it closes the valve and 'closes the choke', the computer recognizes this and gives less fuel (the coolant temp sensor has the same effect so that's something else to check). If this valve is stuck or the sensor has failed it could be telling the injection system that it needs more fuel. On my LTD this valve was stuck open, as a result I removed the valve and installed a small plastic ball valve inline which now acts as a manual choke and I have no problems. Also with the TPS, I had to modify first to the honda car mod (which ended up not holding up and I switched to the BEI/Mouser tps) I set the throttle body opening to the spec in the sup manual and set the tps voltage within book spec. I found that I was still running fairly rich. Now understanding the CFI system it is a fairly redundant system. It has no idea how the engine is actually running, all it knows is what fuel curve to send it as the voltages change on specific sensors and doesn't actually recognize the effects on it (no o2 sensor to know how it's burning). Because of this the tps can actually be set down to .400 vdc before the system will throw a code for it being out of range. This means we can trick the system into running much leaner by increasing the opening on the throttle body and shortening the injector duration by reducing the tps voltage which in effect shortens the fuel curve. I found that if I set mine down around .440-.450 vdc I get good plug burn with proper timing curve on the electrode and get about 3-4 mpg more. You can play around with it to suit your bike, just make sure you check plugs regularly until you find a happy spot for it.”

It’s good info. I’ll look into the air valve as well.

I got rid of my alluminum wings and picked up a Goldwing. Here to live once, die once and give Glory to God while doing it.

Budd

87 GL1200A
83 Kawi 750K (Twin)
78 Yami XS750 Special (Triple Special)
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