Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums banner

'87 1200I Voltage Output @ 11 volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

7K views 70 replies 17 participants last post by  Bryanlj 
#1 ·
Last night I stopped for gas and my 1987 Interstate failed to start for the first time ever. It went err err (turned over very slowly for 2 seconds) and then nothing. :frown2: I still had all my lights, but they are all LEDs so they don't take much juice.

The gas station attendant was kind enough to give me a running shove push start and it started right up and home I went. It was only about 2 miles from home, but it ran great on the way.

When I got home, before I shut it off I measured the voltage at the battery and the output was @ 11 volts at 3000 RPMs.
It was too late to do more because, well you know, work tomorrow.

What do you guys and/or gals think it could be? What you troubleshoot first, second, third... I'm lost and could really use your input.

Oh yeah, there are 30,184 miles on it and it has run fantastic for the 3 years I've owned it. Just changed the oil last week with GN4 10W40. Change oil and filter every year.
 
#2 ·
First thing to check is stator output. A low miles bike, likely still has the connector on the three yellow wires from the stator to the rec/reg. If there, cut it out and throw it away. If burnt, that likely is your problem already. Doesn't hurt to test the stator before you reconnect the wires.

With stator disconnected, Measure AC volts between all three stator leads, should be over 50VAC with engine @ 3000 RPM. With engine off, also measure ohms from one of the stator leads to engine block, should be NO reading (open circuit).

If the stator passes these tests your problem likely lays at the rectifier/regulator module.

Do these checks and report back.... :)
 
#4 ·
Thank you for your quick reply Mr. Winger.

I will do these tests today and report back. But I need a bit more guidance if you have a chance. One of the first things I did when I got the bike was to remove and solder the three yellow wires together and threw away that plug. Should I cut them to test the stator? And when you say "50VAC with engine @ 3000 RPM" does that mean there will be an alternating current from those wires? And do I test them by connecting each wire to my multi-meter, like connect a yellow wire to a positive lead of the multi-meter and another yellow wire to the negative lead of the multi-meter? Or do I connect one yellow wire to a multi-meter lead and the other multi-meter lead to a ground on the frame?

Also, when I test the ohms, is there anywhere on the engine that would be best to put my lead when doing it? Or just anywhere on the engine?

I am hoping of course the stator is okay, but if not, oh well, poor boy conversion time. But if the stator tests okay, is there a link or easy way to tell me how to test the rectifier/regulator module?

Sorry for so may questions, but I don't want to have to keep bugging you later, so I thought I'd get all the bugging done now. :wink2:

Thanks again DenverWinger!: smile2:
 
#3 ·
"Stator Test

1- First, put the bike on the centerstand. Cut the wires on both sides of the stator connector plug. Strip the insulation aprox. 1/2"-1" back on all three yellow wires. Label each wire A, B, and C.

2- With a multimeter, digital or analog, set to read resistance, check each leg to ground for short's. If no short's are found, (o resistance), you're good to go so far.

3- With the meter set to read resistance, check across each leg. A to B, B to C, then C to A. The reading's should be about 3 ohm's. If you read infinite resistance across any of the legs you have an open winding and the stator is bad. If they read good, keep going.

4- A helper is good to have for this next step. With the battery fully charged and the three yellow wire's separated so they cannot make contact, crank the bike. Have your helper rev the bike to 3000rpm after the bike warm's up.

IMPORTANT!!!

You are checking for AC voltage NOT DC voltage!! Make sure the meter is set to read a minimum of 120vac!!

With the bike at 3000rpm, check leg A to B. Note the voltage.
Then check leg B to C. Note the voltage.
Finaly check leg C to A. Note the voltage.

Compare the three readings. They should be between 50-70vac plus or minus about 5vac per leg. If they read good, chances are you've got a bad regulator."
 
#11 ·
"Stator Test

1- First, put the bike on the centerstand. Cut the wires on both sides of the stator connector plug. Strip the insulation aprox. 1/2"-1" back on all three yellow wires. Label each wire A, B, and C.

2- With a multimeter, digital or analog, set to read resistance, check each leg to ground for short's. If no short's are found, (o resistance), you're good to go so far.

3- With the meter set to read resistance, check across each leg. A to B, B to C, then C to A. The reading's should be about 3 ohm's. If you read infinite resistance across any of the legs you have an open winding and the stator is bad. If they read good, keep going,"
I did Step 2 and there was 0 resistance on all three legs. I had measure at the unplugged plug from the regulator. I didn't want to undue my solder job yet. I checked it and it still all looked great. I will attach a photo of where I connected to do the tests. I used 2 different pretty good quality multi-meters.

When I did step 3, bad news. All three, A to B, A to C, and B to C showed 0 resistance. Is it uncommon for all three to read zero? Or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks for your time.
 

Attachments

#5 ·
Thank you roscoepc.

That is a great description on how to do the test. I appreciate your time.

I had removed the three yellow wire plug and soldered the wires as soon as I got the bike because I know that plug can be an issue. But I'll just cut them and test em.

I don't know how you knew I needed so much clarity on how to do this test, but I suppose I'm not the only one that will find this useful. I'm still learning about this stator stuff, It's all pretty new to me.

I truly do appreciate the time you took to help me out.
 
#10 ·
I don't know how you knew I needed so much clarity on how to do this test, but I suppose I'm not the only one that will find this useful. I'm still learning about this stator stuff, It's all pretty new to me.
I didn't know that you did but we might as well cover this thing as good as we can starting with the stator... As Dennis said, you can do this test at the stator connector, which if there is no evidence of wires getting hot there and burning I would suggest removing it and soldering all the wires there.. It'll burn sooner or later!!


The other place to check for bad wiring is at the starter solenoid. Check the two red-red/white wires at the solenoid connector for burning. If you still have the OEM dogbone fuse I would suggest replacing that with an inline 30 amp spade type fuse holder..


I've not really heard of a decent test for the regulator but if you decide that's the problem I would suggest staying with the OEM Shindengen which you can get at Regulator Rectifier.com for about half of what other Honda wants for one!!


Let us know what else you need!!
 
#7 ·
Thanks Dennis.

I was going to start at looking at my solder job. I'm a pretty decent solderer and did shrink tube the joints well. But I'll check them out.

I can't test until later because I had a brain fart last night after I tested the output during running. I hooked up my battery charger on the terminals, made sure pos was on pos and neg was on neg, setting on charger was on 2 amp trickle charge so It would be fully charged by the time I got home from work. But alas, I failed to plug the charger into a working outlet. I have an outlet that is wired to the wall switch, and guess which outlet plugged into? :frown2: And I turned off the light switch when I left the garage. It was a long day, and I am getting older. But more than getting older, I'm absent minded at times, especially on long days. It is charging now though.

One question though. What do you mean "Don't be too quick to go poorboy"? Do you not like the poorboy or is there another alternative I don't know about? :?
 
#8 ·
I do not like poorboy fixes. I have never seen one that looked good. They require cutting up parts of the frame, fairing and fan, plus relocating the fan. They create problems much worse than charging issues, like oil leaks from the crank shaft seal which is absolutely unavailable.

It's really not that hard to get the stator out and have it rebuilt.
 
#9 ·
I'm with Dennis, keep it original. I had 2 1985's in the past and each time I looked before buying I would see if it had an alternator conversion there were many I looked at that had the conversion in good shape otherwise, but I passed on them and if I saw one advertised that said it was upgraded to an alternator I figured it was converted and never called to inquire about the bike, but that's just me and my take about a bike that was butchered....
 
#13 ·
I will do the AC voltage test as soon as I get a chance. Maybe tonight. If not then tomorrow for sure.

But one question about your reply... If I turn the meter to the 200 ohm setting and then ignore the readings, do you mean to just do the AC voltage test and not worry about the ohm test results?

It's been another long day and I confuse easily. :wink2:
 
#16 ·
Just heading out to do some yard work and hopefully the AC voltage test.

The first thing I did when I got the bike was remove the plug and soldered the three wires. I've had three Goldwings and know that that plug can be problematic. I inspected my work on those and everything looks great. I am a pretty good solderer and am careful to do things like that with thoroughness.
 
#17 ·
Pat,
Don't forget to do as Dave said. If you are reading in a very high range setting the meter will not pick up just a few ohms of resistance. It needs to be more sensitive thus the 200 ohm range. If you get 50 plus AC volts at 3,000 RPM you don't have to do the ohm test. The stator is good then.
 
#18 ·
just a recap:

if each, of the different windings, produces 50VAC or more, at 3000 rpm.

AND IF, there is no continuity from the windings to frame ground,

the stator is good.


Under this circumstance, the windings should show a small resistance of equal value from A to B to C to A .

this last test though, is not needed if the 1st test is good. :wink2:



.
 
#19 ·
I tested the AC voltage and got 70 VAC at A, 45 VAC at B, and 45 VAC at C. In the photo attached it shows where I tested them. I had previously soldered them at the notoriously bad plug, so this was my only option, or cut my solder job. Is it okay to test at the Rectifier/Regulator plug like this?

Also, when I moved the multi-meter to the correct setting of 200 for ohms, I got 00.7 ohms resistance on each leg.

And as I mentioned before, there were no shorts to ground from the yellow wires.

I am curious as to what you guys conclude from these results.

I will make you guys all cookies or pie for all your help. I'm not really sure how long to boil cookies or pie so I better let my girl lady Annie do it. :grin3::wink2:
 

Attachments

#22 ·
Oh, I know I wasn't real clear. I did leg to leg with the regulator unplugged as shown in a picture above from a previous post. The comment I made about there being no short was because the gentleman that gave me a list of things to test had me do this..."#2- With a multimeter, digital or analog, set to read resistance, check each leg to ground for short's. If no short's are found, (o resistance), you're good to go so far."

But can I check the AC voltage with the regulator plugged in? Otherwise I would have to cut my solder job.
 
#21 ·
we aren't sure how you tested it.

the tests must be across a winding

A to B
B to C
C to A

and usually, a good stator will have nearly identical voltage readings on each winding.

the ohmmeter check is for continuity, to verify that a winding is not broken.
but the voltage tests prove that also, if they are good.

the one ohmmeter test that is really important, is from any one winding to frame ground. that should not indicate any value at all. e.g., it is "open" or "infinity"
this is the one test where you can use the 100,000 ohm setting.

it might jump briefly upwards and settle back to nothing.

that is just "Capacitance" charging up between the stator and ground/frame.
 
#29 ·
we have to assume, that since a RED probe is all that is shown here,

you put the Black Probe to Frame Ground.


that is invalid, and will not prove anything.


as all have said, Unplug that connection, and repeat the tests

with a Black Proble on 'A' and a Red proble on 'B' and that connector from the Regulator MUST BE PULLED LOOSE and tucked away....







you must test ACROSS the yellow wires, not from a yellow wire to anything else....
 
#32 ·
Unplug the plug. Set meter to AC Volts. One probe on A and one on B what do you get?
Next, One probe on B and one on C what do you get? Next, One probe on A and one on C what do you get?
All should read 50 Volts AC or more at 3,000 RPM. No probe to ground, block or frame etc. for this test.
 
#33 ·
I wrote over on GWDocs:

Unplugging at the rec/reg and measuring there is plenty disconnected enough, you can take the voltage readings from the same place with the rec/reg unplugged. The voltage readings you took are not correct measurements. Read the AC voltage the same way you read the ohms, A-B, A-C and B-C at 3000 RPM

0.7 ohms seems a little low....But not unreasonable. Did you do the Leakage test? (Ohms reading from A, B or C to ground, reg/rec disconnected, engine stopped)

If you wanted to load-test the stator it should be able to light up a standard household 60 watt 120v incandescent light bulb on A-B, A-C or B-C. Won't be full brightness though, doesn't put out 120v, and the voltage will drop with the load... But should light it nonetheless. You'd see the brightness vary with engine RPM. It would show you the stator can put out some current. This test is optional and mainly for grins, the voltage readings will be enough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PatBrandon1
#34 ·
I'm getting a much clearer picture of how to do this now. I appreciate your patience with me Denver. (And everyone else.) This will help me complete it sometime today.

I DID do the Leakage test and there were no ohms readings from any of the legs to ground. Not sure of the technical term for that, but what I mean is that there was absolutely no continuity (shorts) from any of the three wires to the ground.

I feel confident I can do this correctly now. And I hope to be able to pass what I've learned from this on to anyone else that may come across this in the future. I haven't spent much time on this site (I had kinda forgotten about it :frown2:) as I post mostly on GWDocs. But I will spend more time on here looking to see if I can help anybody out with things that I do know about.

You guys have been great. And as soon as I get 47 other things done today, I'm going straight to work on these tests and post the results. One would think my Goldwing would be the #1 priority, and I would love that. But this adulting crap gets in the way of my fun sometimes.
 
#37 ·
That sounds to me like a cooked stator.... :brokedown:
 
#39 ·
I had my 86 wing ready for a group ride, we were at the Honda dealer as the starting point, my bike would not start, the ride went on without me, fiddled around at the dealership for a couple hours and nobody could figure it out...then I hit something in frustration , and tried it one more time, started right up....turns out the rubber on the starter solenoid had worn through in one spot and it was shorting out...repaired the rubber so there was no more shorting, and have not had a problem with starting, sense then......
 
#40 ·
Just to be clear I'm not endorsing any particular brand or size but these new lithium jump batterys are light and should be able to easily recharge the bikes battery multiple times.

https://m.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-tools/battery-charger/noco-75-amp-6-12-volt-genius-battery-charger/388458_0_0?cmpid=PLA:US:EN:AD:NL:1000000:DBA:1700000848&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_r3nBRDxARIsAJljleFDTZ-XGK1TckJpcLsiJE4g0KBv-1_-NYQbIxw8tcd0JARN68kdIXcaAg__EALw_wcB

Using one of these wired to the battery would help the bike start then if left on should continue to charge the battery until it is charged while you ride.

You could strap it to the seat....



By the way ya'll I installed the last new crank shaft seal in my bike about 2 months ago.
 
#41 ·
That's a great idea until I can get to putting in a new staror this Winter. Then I wouldn't have to give up precious riding time this Summer.

Are you sure that this charger works when not plugged into a 120 AC wall outlet?

I looked pretty good at the specs, and don't see that it charges a battery if not plugged into an outlet. I might just be missing something?
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top