Progressive 416 shocks spongy - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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Progressive 416 shocks spongy

I blew out both rear shocks on my last ride. I replaced the seals in both shocks and put in 2 oz. of Dextron III. I aired the shocks up to 50 psi and let it set over night and the next day it was still at 50. A couple days later, I went out to work on the bike and checked the pressure and it was still 50 psi so I put all the tupperware back on and took it off the center stand. By bouncing my butt up and down on the seat, I could get the shocks to bottom out. Or at least it felt that way. I increase the pressure to 60 and still spongy. I called progressive and the guy told me I didn't add enough oil. He said I should have put 6 oz. in each one? Before I go and take everything apart, I wanted to check with others who may have replaced the seals on their 416s and were told to put 6 oz. in also. I know some shocks take 12 oz. but why do the instructions say 2?
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 05:36 PM
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The oil takes up air space in the shock and acts as a barrier to keep air in,
I just looked at Progressive site and it calls for 2 oz of dextron,
Found this

,bout the only "rebuild" for the 416's is the replacement of the oil seal and oil refilling... The oil seal wouldn't qualify as a littl o-ring, so consider me a +1 for what Dale Sr. posts above...

Sadly, progressive has redesigned their site and made their instructions a bit more difficult to find.

This PDF is the installation (the 2small o-rings are seen at about step #9):
http://www.progressivesuspension.com...s/3068-101.pdf

This PDF presents the seal removal and replacement... Generally, when I refill these I'll use 4oz - 6oz of oil for the GL1500 if it's used a lot 2-up, towing, or with a heavy bag load. :
http://www.progressivesuspension.com...s/3068-100.pdf

Hope this is some help

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah the tech support guy was having trouble finding the info too. He went to take a look at something and came back and asked me how much oil I put in and I told him 2 oz. He said it should be six. Neither of us know why there is a difference but I added the extra oil and will see what happens.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 08:51 PM
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the oil is not a barrier to keep air in only the seal does so. max amount of atf to use is 3 oz per shock not six. normally 2 oz per instructions are used, using 3 oz provides a firmer ride and a little more capacity. you can fill it up via the air hose fitting connection on the shock no need to take it apart.

if they bled down like u stated than the air seal is leaking or if not and bouncing then the sealed lower section of the shock has failed. there are replacements avail.


https://www.progressivesuspension.co...Shock-Inst.pdf


https://www.progressivesuspension.co...s/3068-100.pdf
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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The oil seals definitely blew. The right ones was leaking and wouldn't hold air. Then the next day, the left one did the same thing. It was a bouncy ride home. Those instructions on replacing the seals are the same ones that came with the seals but the tech support guy said that was wrong and I should have put 6 oz on instead of 2 oz. I searched high and low, and as you can see, there is no definitive answer. The 416 series must come in many sizes and flavors. I read in a Harley forum that a guy puts 11 oz. in his.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jlaframboise View Post
The oil seals definitely blew. The right ones was leaking and wouldn't hold air. Then the next day, the left one did the same thing. It was a bouncy ride home. Those instructions on replacing the seals are the same ones that came with the seals but the tech support guy said that was wrong and I should have put 6 oz on instead of 2 oz. I searched high and low, and as you can see, there is no definitive answer. The 416 series must come in many sizes and flavors. I read in a Harley forum that a guy puts 11 oz. in his.

I was referring to your rebuild with new seals, that they are still leaking.

u talked to the wrong tech person. progressive over the yrs always stated max 3 oz per shock.
oil level affects the air chamber left in the shock. As you know, oil doesn't really compress (much) under pressure, but air can be compressed quite well. So, when you hit a bump, the shocks compress, and in addition to all the other suspension and damping stuff going on, the volume of air inside is compressed, acting as an additional "spring". This happens most noticeably at the end of the suspension stroke as compressing air gets progressively harder. only problem is air compressing is not linear like oil.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry for not being clear. The shocks bled down when they originally blew on the ride. After I replaced the seals, the air stayed at the exact pressure I originally put in. Even after 3 days it was exactly 50 psi. So no leaks. When I took it off of the center stand and bounced it a bit, I would get a lot of travel from the shocks. This is what I meant by spongy, not that it was springy. In my second post, I was referring to the original seals that were blown.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jlaframboise View Post
Sorry for not being clear. The shocks bled down when they originally blew on the ride. After I replaced the seals, the air stayed at the exact pressure I originally put in. Even after 3 days it was exactly 50 psi. So no leaks. When I took it off of the center stand and bounced it a bit, I would get a lot of travel from the shocks. This is what I meant by spongy, not that it was springy. In my second post, I was referring to the original seals that were blown.

I wrote the lower non-rebuildable section of the shock might be bad allowing the spongy movement. could be the problem.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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I wrote the lower non-rebuildable section of the shock might be bad allowing the spongy movement. could be the problem.

I wondered about that. The only rebuild kit I could find was a pack with two seals. No info on the section that held the spring or damper/piston. They are discontinued by Progressive Suspensions and don't seem to have any technical data available to anyone who still has them. The 416s are also used on Harleys and they seem to swear that they use way more oil than the Goldwing people are talking. They also come in 11", 12" and 13" give or take some fractions. I wonder if this has anything to do with the amount of oil.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jlaframboise View Post
I wondered about that. The only rebuild kit I could find was a pack with two seals. No info on the section that held the spring or damper/piston. They are discontinued by Progressive Suspensions and don't seem to have any technical data available to anyone who still has them. The 416s are also used on Harleys and they seem to swear that they use way more oil than the Goldwing people are talking. They also come in 11", 12" and 13" give or take some fractions. I wonder if this has anything to do with the amount of oil.



or it could be the upper springs have failed, more likely problem. and progressive site has always been bad, they want u to call them. they use to have replacement springs avail.
I know a lot of valkyrie riders were using their 440 shocks. now that progressive disco'd them they provide zero rebuild support and many are failing lately.
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