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Wierd starting problem

3K views 22 replies 5 participants last post by  DBohrer 
#1 ·
Got the 1988 1500 trike project all wired and running then went to start it again and no go, after much testing worked out that relay B was not working so connected both the grounds together and it fired up nicely.
Next morning press starter and only way to stop starter turning was disconnect battery lead, was still turning over(but not starting) with button released and ignition turned off. Only thing i can think of is solenoid A sticking closed but can anybody know of or can think of anything else that would cause this?

Cheers

Bryan
 
#2 ·
The starter relay A was stuck in the closed position....!!! You are not the first one to have this issue......!!

Yep....The relay B provides a ground for the starter motor (unlike the 1993 and later years)....!!

You could have pulled a 5-amp fuse..........!!!!!!!!!

That relay B for (1988 - 1989) is no longer available from Honda.....!!

You had a good strong battery.....right.....??

You probably need a relay A and B.....!
 
#3 ·
You and Dave got it handled. The solenoid is by far the most common issue.

Retrofitting a car solenoid is not hard to do.

Beware there are 2 different types of solenoids.

Grounded base uses one wire to the coil while insulated base needs a hot and ground to work.

Weak batteries wreck solenoids as Dave mentioned..

EDITED for spelling errors in underlined words.
spaced out for better ease of reading/comprehension to future readers.
 
#5 ·
Dave, which 5 amp fuse can you pull? If its stuck in the on position removing opperating coil power dont work or turning key off would as well.
The B solenoid i think you can replace with one from an sohc 4, just wont have the mounting bracket!
Thanks for your help, i will confirm fault(s) after working on it next weekend
Thanks
Bryan
 
#6 ·
Bryan,

The relay A when activated (or if stuck close) provides power through a 5-amp "in-line fuse B" to activate "trigger' the relay B. Then relay B provides a ground to the starter motor (starter runs).

If you pull the 5-amp fuse, relay B does not get activated "triggered' and the starter motor does not get grounded, and the starter does not run.

Does this explain (or answer) your question....??:grin3:

But maybe you know more than I do about the starting circuit......!!:wink2:

Only trying to help you.....!!!!
 
#7 ·
Dont know as much as you about these particular bikes but regularly end up sorting out bike electrics for people as i find it relatively easy as long as you are methodical.
Will need to study the diagram more as i hadnt noticed the fuse in circuit.
Can you help out with location to save me some time?
I really appreciate the help mate
Bryan
 
#8 ·
If you jumped past the B relay as you said in your earlier post the fuse will not work (to cut out runaway starter) until the relay B is back in the circuit. When a relay like relay A sticks you can usually get it working again by hitting it with something like a screwdriver handle. It might only be a temporary fix though. As for the location of the fuse I'm sure Dave can help you or you can follow the small wire that comes off the big stud on relay a. That small wire will go to the coil of relay B and will have the 5 amp fuse inline. If that fuse blows there would be no power to the coil of relay B and might have been your original problem with B.
 
#9 ·
That fuse is in a rubber pouch to the left of the battery along the frame rail.

There are two 5-amp fuses there, one for starting and one for reverse. Check both.

Like Mike mentioned, if that fuse was blown, the relay B would not get activated "triggered".

That could cause one to possibly think the relay B was bad.

BTW....It is very very rare for an issue with the relay B. I actually haven't known of a relay B failure.

Maybe yours could be the first......!!

I have been involved with GL1500's since 1993 and still learning more all the time.

Note: My information provided in post # 6 was how the starting circuit "normally" works (as Mike clarified).
 
#16 ·
That fuse is in a rubber pouch to the left of the battery along the frame rail.

There are two 5-amp fuses there, one for starting and one for reverse. Check both...

Clarification: "Left" meaning as you look at the battery (eg Towards the rear of the bike)


This fuse pair can be hard to find !
 
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#10 ·
Thanks Dave, will look at the fuse and see.
Strange if that blew and relay A went bad at same time but with the amount of "modifications" to get this trike to start, run, reverse and light up anything is possible, even have a headlamp off switch and a headlamp flash button now!
Can you tell me if the two largish lights at the lower corners of the front fairing are supposed to be "running" lights r spotlights mate
Thanks again
Bryan
 
#11 ·
Thanks Dave, will look at the fuse and see.
Strange if that blew and relay A went bad at same time but with the amount of "modifications" to get this trike to start, run, reverse and light up anything is possible, even have a headlamp off switch and a headlamp flash button now!
Can you tell me if the two largish lights at the lower corners of the front fairing are supposed to be "running" lights r spotlights mate
Thanks again
Bryan
The 1988 did not have any lights in those lower panels. However, some folks did add lights there and they could have been wired as "cornering" lights activated by the turn signal switch OR wired to be on all the time. Maybe even controlled with an on/off switch.

I have several documents on my computer that pertain to various circuits (ignition, starting, ignition switch, 55-amp fuse, relay # 3, etc.) on the 1988 Gold Wing.

I also have the Honda service manual for the 1988.

Also have the "brochures" for all the years of the GL1500's. Explains the standard and optional equipment based on the model of the bike.
 
#12 ·
Thanks Dave, we think this bike was "triked" after an accident so not 100% sure of the exact year of anything!
I have the UK Honda dealer workshop manaul which is supplied in a 4 ring binder and known heer as "Blue Book" manual for the original 1500 and 2 supplements for later model, i think the J, K and N models but would have to check to be certain. Also i have aquired the US electrical manual which is close enough to help but i find your knowledge better and easier to follow. If you would like some of the pages scanned and sent to you, complete manual is HUGE so cant do it all, pm your email and requests and i will do it over time.
Thanks again
Bryan
 
#13 ·
Thanks Dave, we think this bike was "triked" after an accident so not 100% sure of the exact year of anything!
I have the UK Honda dealer workshop manaul which is supplied in a 4 ring binder and known heer as "Blue Book" manual for the original 1500 and 2 supplements for later model, i think the J, K and N models but would have to check to be certain. Also i have aquired the US electrical manual which is close enough to help but i find your knowledge better and easier to follow. If you would like some of the pages scanned and sent to you, complete manual is HUGE so cant do it all, pm your email and requests and i will do it over time.
Thanks again
Bryan

Bryan, Check the relay box. This might help to narrow down the year of your bike.

The 1988 Gold Wing has eleven (11) fuses. (No fuses in the relay box)

The 1989 – 1992 Gold Wing's have twelve (12) fuses. (Fuse # 12 is in the relay box)

The 1993 - 2000 Gold Wing has thirteen (13) fuses. (Fuse # 12 and # 13 is in the relay box)


I have the Honda service manual (including electrical troubleshooting) for the 1988, 1996 and 1999 Gold Wing's.

I don't need any more manuals (pages) but thanks for the offer.


Check the eighth number in the VIN to see the year of your Trike.

SC22 Honda GL1500 Goldwing J 1988
SC22 Honda GL1500 Goldwing K 1989
SC22 Honda GL1500 Goldwing L 1990
SC22 Honda GL1500 SE Goldwing M 1991
SC22 Honda GL1500 SE Goldwing N 1992
SC22 Honda GL1500 SE Goldwing P 1993
SC22 Honda GL1500 SE Goldwing R 1994
SC22 GL1500SE S 1995
SC22 GL1500SE T 1996
SC22 GL1500SE V 1997
SC22 GL1500SE W 1998
SC22 GL1500SE X 1999
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the info Dave, had an hour spare today whilst the owner took his "poppy bike" (Suzuki GZ125) for an anual inspection.
After testing relay B loom ground wire(green red) was OK ( grounded not in reverse no ground in reverse) at loom connector, both 5 amp fuses OK but relay not working using down and dirty test of connecting black wire into loom direct to batt pos found a bad connection at the green red connector of solenoid black connector redid that and relay B works OK powering with black.
Not trying start till new relay A arrives as if that is sticking dont want to wreck starter.
Will advise after solenoid arrived.
Pic of "poppy bike" attached. We raise money for the Royal British Legion
 

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#15 ·
Thanks for the info Dave, had an hour spare today whilst the owner took his "poppy bike" (Suzuki GZ125) for an anual inspection.
After testing relay B loom ground wire(green red) was OK ( grounded not in reverse no ground in reverse) at loom connector, both 5 amp fuses OK but relay not working using down and dirty test of connecting black wire into loom direct to batt pos found a bad connection at the green red connector of solenoid black connector redid that and relay B works OK powering with black.
Not trying start till new relay A arrives as if that is sticking dont want to wreck starter.
Will advise after solenoid arrived.
Pic of "poppy bike" attached. We raise money for the Royal British Legion
Ah.....I really didn't think the relay B was bad. I haven't found a bad one yet.

I see you found those 5-amp fuses....!!:grin3:

Did you check the vin number for the year of the Trike........??

Nice "Poppy" bike.
 
#18 ·
Dave, bike is not where i am so will have to wait for me to get there to check vin but will post when got it. The B relay was exceptionally rusty and definately bad(UK uses a LOT of road salt when cold) Glad you like the small bike, the paintwork on rear end of trike is equaly impressive, again will post when got pics and time.
Battery is AGM and holding good voltage but as we are both mechanics, me ex due to bad dermatitis and Lez(the owner) recovery we tend to attach a battery pack, connected properly, unlike PO, if we are doing a lot of lights testing or stop start.
All your help on this forum has been invaluable and much appreciated.
Cheers
Bryan
 
#21 ·
No Dave, I don't think you did it bass ackward! :laugh: I usually count from the right to left to the 8th digit also when I want to check what year a vehicle is manufactured. It is quicker than counting from the left side. I just wanted to clarify for those that might start counting the usual way from the left side of the VIN that it would be the 10th digit that way.


I also liked the 75-77 models for their styling and they had more power on the top end. That 79 I had was a sweet running motor though. It was a really smooth runner and was almost like it was fuel injected. It too was a bare bike when I got it and I put a luggage rack and trunk and a Vetter fairing on it. Also some air horns I got from JC Whitney. Man were those things loud.
 
#22 ·
When iworked for a local dealer i pdi'd the first GL 1000 in the county, went on to do 45000 miles in 3 years as a shop bike with only routine servicing, a new rear tyre every 5000(cant remember how long the front lasted) and a used swing arm at 18 months as the very first ones did not have a grease nipple at the diff end so the sliding spline joint wore out and we were lucky one had been written off. Rear wheel bearings went at about 70000 hint replace them if you feel ANY play no matter how small or you will destroy the diff bearings.
I know its not really a diff but its the easiest thing to call that big lump!
 
#23 ·
When iworked for a local dealer i pdi'd the first GL 1000 in the county, went on to do 45000 miles in 3 years as a shop bike with only routine servicing, a new rear tyre every 5000(cant remember how long the front lasted) and a used swing arm at 18 months as the very first ones did not have a grease nipple at the diff end so the sliding spline joint wore out and we were lucky one had been written off. Rear wheel bearings went at about 70000 hint replace them if you feel ANY play no matter how small or you will destroy the diff bearings.
I know its not really a diff but its the easiest thing to call that big lump!
Yep, The 1975 did not have the grease fitting. Honda added that for the 1976 year. Always greased that on my 1977....!
 
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