Houston, we have a problem or two... - Page 2 - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #11 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-13-2018, 07:50 AM
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In a sealed battery?

A sealed battery should weigh the same charged/discharged since the gases should stay inside the battery.

Off gassing can be minimized by regulating the voltage applied to the battery to just over the current battery output. There is a minimum voltage required to drive the conversion from water to hydrogen and oxygen. If you keep the charger voltage regulated to less than battery output plus conversion voltage the off gassing should be eliminated.

When I was growing up in the 70's we used to evaluate how well a car battery was charging by how many bubbles were coming out of the cell. More bubbles meant more current / better charging.

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post #12 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-13-2018, 08:02 AM
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In the combustion scenario some of the mass is converted to heat. Anybody figured out how to keep the heat inside, or weigh it?
Combustion does not convert mass to heat

Graphite plus oxygen produces carbon dioxide

C + O2 -> CO2 with a heat of reaction of -395.3 kJ/mol

The weight of an atom does not change depending on the chemical compound it is in. The left side has one atom of carbon and two atoms of oxygen held in two compounds. The right side has one atom of carbon and two atoms of oxygen held in one compound.

The total weight of the system will not change when graphite is burned in oxygen when everything is inside a sealed container.

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post #13 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-13-2018, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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What a headache.
It is my opinion that in the first case the total weight will not change because of the enclosed system. It is the equivalent of a person jumping up and down in that room.
For a fraction of second when the person jumps the scale will measure higher then will be lower. However this does not change the weight.The average combined mass is always the same. Just because a person jumps up and down on a scale does not make him heavier or lighter.
Moreover, the helicopter could remain airborne only a limited amount of time.
The smaller the room the less time.
In conclusion the weight does not change in the first case.

Im still thinking about the second problem

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post #14 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-13-2018, 11:17 AM
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The first one, i don't think it will change. I have no scientific reasoning, just my opinion. The helicopter goes from being supported by the floor to being supported by the air in the room. When the air is supporting the helicopter the total weight inside the room should stay the same.

In the second one the weight will be less. When something burns you get ashes, smoke and heat. The weight of the smoke and ashes will not be near the weight of the unburned material. Heat has no weight, in fact it will try to rise and, in sufficient amounts, could lift the room.

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post #15 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-13-2018, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Wes Scott View Post
A sealed battery should weigh the same charged/discharged since the gases should stay inside the battery.

Off gassing can be minimized by regulating the voltage applied to the battery to just over the current battery output. There is a minimum voltage required to drive the conversion from water to hydrogen and oxygen. If you keep the charger voltage regulated to less than battery output plus conversion voltage the off gassing should be eliminated.

When I was growing up in the 70's we used to evaluate how well a car battery was charging by how many bubbles were coming out of the cell. More bubbles meant more current / better charging.
It appears we have a scientist in our midst.
Do the electrons that leave the battery when being used have any weight?
Yes, I have used the bubbles method to check for charging, and way before the 70s.

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post #16 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-13-2018, 10:39 PM
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It appears we have a scientist in our midst.
Do the electrons that leave the battery when being used have any weight?
Yes, I have used the bubbles method to check for charging, and way before the 70s.
The electrons have weight but for every one that leaves at the negative terminal, one enters at the positive terminal.

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post #17 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 06:22 PM
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I don't know but I think tamathumper is wrong on the first and right on the second.
Einstein said mass = energy or something like that & he seemed to be pretty smart. And a charged battery should weigh more than a discharged one, the electrolite's specific gravity is more when it's charged.
True, the electrolyte gained weight, as evidenced by the specific gravity.

But that weight came from the plates. They are now lighter by an equivalent amount.

So, the result? You be the judge
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post #18 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-21-2018, 12:23 PM
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I don't know the answer to either, but question 1 is a variation on the old "truckload of canaries" question. An enclosed truck is full of roosting canaries. The driver stops, gets out, and walks around the truck banging the sides, exciting the canaries, making them all go airborne. Does the weight of the truck change?

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post #19 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-21-2018, 12:46 PM
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I don't know the answer to either, but question 1 is a variation on the old "truckload of canaries" question. An enclosed truck is full of roosting canaries. The driver stops, gets out, and walks around the truck banging the sides, exciting the canaries, making them all go airborne. Does the weight of the truck change?
That would be the same thing as your question about the helicopter in a box.

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post #20 of 82 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 05:29 AM Thread Starter
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Another problem:I saw this on "MYTHBUSTERS"
You drop a bullet from a certain height and measure the time it took to hit the ground then you shoot the bullet with a gun perfectly horizontal at the same height which one will take longer to hit the ground?

I make sense all the time. The problem is you only listen intermittently

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