Goldwing Oil, Diesel Oil Analysis - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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Goldwing Oil, Diesel Oil Analysis

Hello All, found this oil article pretty interesting.
This came out around 2007-ish, when new diesel emissions hit and companies were forced to change their oils to accommodate new emissions equipment: the diesel particulate filter.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/TDR57_Oil.pdf

I have been running diesel oils in motorcycles for years. I realize that many prefer to use the name brand of the company, etc.
But if the spec fits and fits well and I already have diesel oil (in fact everything I own uses the same oil) I have no problem using it, in everything.

Diesels undergo tremendous heat and pressure. Motorcycles, especially air-cooled units, get a lot of heat. And common sump motorcycles replicate pressure in the transmission. At least so I am told.

The article speaks about quality of certain oils, which definitely surprised me at some of the results. The prices are very different today, but some of the best performers were:

15w40
Delo 400
Valvoline Premium Blue

5w40
Rotella T6 synth
Delo 400 Synth
Valvoline Premium blue

Some of the least performing: (not necessarily bad, but worst out of the group tested)
15w40
Rotella T
Delo 400 LE (low emissions for 07+ diesels with particulate filters)
Amsoil Premium Synth (not expecting this one)

Better than these? (and cheaper)
Walmart Super Tech diesel oil...


My take away points:

I have always heard good things about Delo, apparently this is the non-le version (still made hard to find at retail)

At retail synthetics often cost 2x conventional cost. At the time of this post usually $12-ish vs $22-ish
However,
Valvoline premium blue I can only find for $15 cheapest at tractor supply. Other places want to charge $18 for it.
Delo 400 (non-le) I cannot find locally anymore at retail

I can get Rotella T6 on Amazon Prime via subscription (X amount every month or 2 months) which brings the price down to around $17-$18 shipped and I don't pay tax. Which makes it at most only $2 more expensive per gallon than Valvoline Premium Blue at TSC. I also don't have to go anywhere to get it sinceTSC is a few miles away.

The other good oils are not nearly as cheap on Amazon.

Being an older article, formulations can change (particularly wal-mart which contracts their oils out). However, although diesel emissions did change, the added equipment (urea injection) is not sensitive like the Diesel Particulate Filters.
So I don't see a reason that the main diesel formulations would change like they did in 07. Which means this article may still hold true

As I mentioned I use Rotella T6 in everything. I was hoping to save some money using conventional oil in power equipment, but it doesn't seem worth it in my situation, especially since I require cold weather usage 50% of the year.
If I could not get Rotella that cheap, I would try to find some Delo 400 (non-le) or Valvoline Premium Blue, whichever I could get cheaper. Then pay extra for a synthetic 5w40 in winter.

Link for understanding viscosities
http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/
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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 05:59 PM
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now that I have changed from a 1500 to an 1800,
I have changed from Delo 400 10w40 ( in whatever version is on the shelf, as long as it is NOT Energy Efficient )

The oil in my bike now, is Shell Rotella T5 10w30 which is the weight specified by Honda for normal temperature ranges.

I have the records on my bike since new, it has always had some type of synthetic, at least 3 brands that I know of. Amsoil or Mobil 1 seemed to be the ones most used. I think it had to do with where the owner was when the oil change came due. He rode the piss out of that bike...

I bought it at 97,333 miles and it runs like a top. It has only had one hiccup since new, the ECM had a failure in the connector leading to the Left side knock sensor. I found an ECM from a salvage bike and problem gone.

There are two threads that will compliment your post very well.


Complete article on Oil classifications by Mike Guillory

delo 400 changed? - Excellent Post on oils by Mike Guillory/pippomaranga


I am searching for two threads on an 1800 where the owner kept meticulous records for 100s of thousands of miles changing oil brands with every change and sending in for analysis reports.

the bottom line of two years of work?

It don't make a damn, just choose a high quality oil and get on with life.


I found them: 3 of them


Oil Analysis results:

Oil Analysis

Energy Conserving Oil, Jaso MA oil.


This link is super interesting, if you want to see what the effects of weights versus temperature are. It contains a Real Live Calculator



Graph your oils

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~ John


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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 06:23 PM
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I thought Delo 400 was only Gold Wing oil...
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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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Chevron link doesn't work anymore. But I read through some of the others. I should probably get back to studying shortly.

One thing I didn't mention, which often doesn't get mentioned during conventional vs synthetic discussions are the apparent "cleaning" properties of synthetics, Group 4 or Group 3+ base.

Most of us with diesel trucks, and other vehicles too, are aware of how dirty oil gets. My old F350 7.3 turned it black in less than 100 miles, and the engine would retain 1qt in the High Pressure Oil Pump at an oil change. When I switched to Rotella T6 for winter starting over Rotella T, within 3 oil changes I was retaining translucent oil as far out as 3500 miles, (the last oil change before I sold the truck). Truck was never running better, and I probably could have extended my interval, but never got around to doing oil analysis.

The other thing, is that since motorcycles are not diesels it brings to question whether the lower quality of the Delo 400 LE and Rotella T formulations is noticeable in their applications.
But for me, since I like to keep one oil, and don't mind spending a little more for better rated stuff, I probably won't use either.
But I really wish an updated oil analysis like that one would be done again.

BUT, as we know more important than which is the best, is changing it regularly.
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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 06:33 PM
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My engine does not sound like a diesel and does not run on diesel fuel. So being I have a Honda gas motor, I do not use or recommend diesel oil. A question what does Honda say about diesel oil and your warrantee??

1980 GL1100 Standard/ with Vetter upgrades
2005 Honda Shadow Aero 750 wife (Better Half)
2002 Honda 1800 trike wife (better half)
2003 Honda 1800 everyday bike 95,000+
2014 GL1800 called midnight riding just a little it waiting for me to retire. (soon)
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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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The owner's manual says on page 142 (I don't have access to a service manual)

Engine Oil
Good engine oil has many desirable qualities. Use only high detergent, quality motor oil certified on the container to meet or exceed requirements for API service Classification SF or SG.

I think diesel oil fits that bill along with many others.

It then goes on to discuss viscosity. And on page 143 it speaks about quality and replacing it at appropriate intervals for the type of riding conditions.
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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 06:51 PM
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yup, that pretty much covers it.

Honda will never, ever, get into a discussion of whether or not, an oil designed primarily for diesel service is a "qualified oil". It is, because it must meet more stringent requirements than what they state.


Here is a PDF for Rotella T5, so you can see all the nitty gritty in one place.

http://www.farleycompany.com/pdf/dat...%28CJ-4%29.pdf


.
if you wonder how cold is too cold, here is that number:



Shell Rotella® T5 10W-30 (CJ-4) Pour Point °C ASTM D97 -42° C

and that folks, is a lot colder than I am willing to go out and start my Goldwing.


I think that T5 is a suitable oil for the short term, and the long term also

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~ John


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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
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I really like that viscosity link.
I will have to play around with that when I have time.
But I need to get back to studying tonight and resist the temptation.
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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Rider 2 View Post
My engine does not sound like a diesel and does not run on diesel fuel. So being I have a Honda gas motor, I do not use or recommend diesel oil. A question what does Honda say about diesel oil and your warrantee??
119,000 miles, and 35 years old... my warrantee expired long ago.

Brian
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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring1898 View Post
Chevron link doesn't work anymore. But I read through some of the others. I should probably get back to studying shortly.
you caught the post before I had removed all of the bad links.

it is a never ending task trying to find the 'bad ones'

those which are the best, I save to my PC as HTML folders, so they are available for as long as I am alive.

somewhere, down the road, I need to export all of my stuff to someone...
I think I have a suitable person for that... we have talked behind the scenes.

~ John


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