Customer Technical Assistance - Page 2 - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-26-2008, 10:05 AM
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Bobby B wrote:
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I think in any dealership, manufacturer, etc, there is always run-a-round. All that running makes me tired. I think customers know what they need and especially what they want!
The rule of 90%. 90% of the people give up on the first rejection. 90% of the rest give up on the second rejection. After two rejections the manufacturer only has to deal with 1% of the problems. Simple math.

GM has used it for years and look where it got them. It also works in reverse when the person is buying.

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-26-2008, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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I would like to add something to all this. Many including myself at times have been to a dealer with some type of situation and the service manager simply seems to have a brain that is somewhat small. You explain it all to him and he says, we cannot help you, or tells you something that you know is mushroom flavored.

Employees are not the dealer. Just like the ones that delivered my bike to me and while standing out in the lot going over it I asked them several times as a hint , what is the correct air pressure for the tires? One said I will look it up for you, another just looked at me. The salesman did not know!!. The bike was also low on coolant, to the point of overheating by the time I got home. I had had Kuryakyn floor boards installed at the dealer and they have to come off to check the coolant level.....well they got lazy . I had a bad wire harness to the right signal light and it was delivered in this shape, they messed with it for an hour, finally I asked the tech, how about just run a continuity check through the harness? Eh? They did and replaced the short little plug in harness, problem solved. They had put in 5 bulbs by then and just about wore the thing out taking it apart. The rear drive had no oil in it and I suppose I ran it for ten days before I decided to just maybe I should check this.....uh oh. So I put some slick kind in it.

This was all the employees, not the dealer, not the owner. Sure it goes against the grain and I would never ever take my bike to them for service as I got a real good first hand impression of these fellows right off the get go. Also another person recently purchased from this dealer an 2009 and the little new tire light was flashing on all the time, so I said to me.........uh huh.......again some dummie did not check the tire pressure, so they are still at it.

However looking beyond all this, if you do have a real problem and the employees will not give you good service, all it takes is to go speak with the owner of the dealership, you will find them for the most part pretty ok folks. They get ambused a lot by employees that have little mushrooms for a brain.

I know this may not make you feel good about them working on your bike, does not me, it scares me to death. But if something serious comes along, like a rare transmission problem or something and you do not want to tackle it yourself, and do get the run around, go talk to the owner, just betcha he will take care of it.

Kit

The 1800 is my bike. The very best motorcycle ever made. I was enthralled with my first test ride on this machine. It is a great bike. A crotch rocket with storage bags.............As for oil I use the slick kind, and I like round tires, but as of late I have found square ones work best on the rear. Pirelli Eufori 195/55/16 @ 32 PSI
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 07:52 AM
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I took my little GL1100 to the dealer, and they said they would not work on a Goldwing that is over 10 years old. Redicilious. I then showed him the wobble in my tach, and he said "looks serious". I left, and about 1,000 miles later, the tack cable broke, and 1 out of 2, and mo more wobble. I'm glad they do not work on anything over 10 years old. They don't know how.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-14-2009, 11:50 AM
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Does Honda (corporate) really care about all this?
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 06:25 AM Thread Starter
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ScooterTramp wrote:
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Does Honda (corporate) really care about all this?
Hi Scooter:

Actually they do. It is a complicated situation and there are so many opinions including mine, and so many times we as people express our feelings in a time when we are mad that the real issue is overlooked.

Honda is not at all cooperative at the corporate office if you call them with a technical problem. There are many reasons for this, mostly it is due to legal issues. They also do wish to allow the dealers to deal with the situations and will flat out just tell you so.

Dealers learn too, I learn, we can all learn. I have learned that rather than gripe at them all the time to work with them. We can all learn to do things better, and to work together if we wish to.

So yes they do care, and if you will work within their guidelines results that bring improvement are normally the result.

I am one of the worst I suppose, I have been around motorcycles so long, and seen and experienced so many things at dealers, that I have this instinctive mistrust.

Bear in mind that a mechanic at a Honda Shop, at least where I live top wage is about $12 dollars an hour. The other fellows who prep the new bikes and get them ready for delivery , clean the shop, wash the bikes, and do the general work around the shop will be paid from $6 to $8 dollars an hour. The employee turnover is very high, and quality employees are hard to come by.

I am not trying to justify the many things that happen due to this, just explaining the reason why it does happen.

In my situation I really got upset with them. I did write to and call Mother Honda. And they did listen. I got no less than a dozen phone calls both from Honda and my local Dealer over the situations with the bike I purchased from them. I simply saw no justification for delivery of a new machine to a customer as had happened.

The end result was not hard feelings, but improvement. The dealer has now put into place new delivery procedures, developed a check list for the yahoos to go by and does try his best. I was also offered a free in house service contract for one year for my bike as a way of apology, the shop manager did call me and we had a long talk.

They still do have problems, due to the employee turnover, and the quality of those who do these jobs, but it is improving.

I would like to think that I can learn, and as most dealers in the local areas , do a whole lot to promote the sport of motorcycles, and to help with our activities, and the charity rides, and safety fairs, and do so many things that are directly to our benefit, that we can all learn to work with them, and not against them.

I have learned this, and hey it is a lot more fun to start each day with a smile and calm spirit than be all mad at the dealer and ready to fight as soon as you walk into the front door.

I have learned to ignore the yahoos who cause the situations and just go talk to the owner or the shop manager. You will get positive results this way. I did turn down the offer of the service contract, I did discuss this with the shop manager and simply told him my reason was quite simple, a lifetime of mistrust is hard to overcome. That is your goal, to build trust to your customers, as for me I will change my own oil, this way I know those yahoos will not put an air impact wrench on the drain plug and strip out the block.

Yes the do listen, they do care, but it is a big world, with many people involved, and a high turnover of employees, they are working on it, as for myself, I am working on my attitude towards the dealers, and will simply try to provide positive comments to them from now on, instead of getting mad at them.

Kit

The 1800 is my bike. The very best motorcycle ever made. I was enthralled with my first test ride on this machine. It is a great bike. A crotch rocket with storage bags.............As for oil I use the slick kind, and I like round tires, but as of late I have found square ones work best on the rear. Pirelli Eufori 195/55/16 @ 32 PSI
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 09:10 AM
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Hi Kit. Life been treating you good (or at least done you no harm)?

I take a more direct approach. I go at the dealership, in sections. Service, Parts and sales. I've got to know them and (more importantly) they've got to know me. This seems to be working well with service. Parts not so good. I've already bought the thing, so who needs sales.

I have gone to the dealer. Used their computer to find a product and show it to the parts dude and they still screw it up. I did this in front of the parts manager. All I get is, conflicting excuses, when things go south. Maybe it is their 'business model', but with today's technology there is no reason why I have to have a dedicated 'parts rep'. Any one of them should be able to find out the status of an order. I should not have to wait (I don't do this well) for these dudes to show up for work, or get off there dead ass. I haven't tried talking to the owners. There are three of them. Not sure which one to talk too.

Anyway, I like hitting a nail with a hammer. For the money I've shelled out for this thing, I want it my way - not theirs. I went through this type of thing, with HD, years ago. One call to the factory and it was 'taken care of'. Like you, after it was all over, I became an ace Harley mechanic. Did all my own work, after that. That was before electronics, however. But I digress.

Judging by the managers they have on staff, the owners can't be much. Besides that, when we go 'exploring', am I going to have to go to war with every dealer I encounter? Sooner or later I'll know enough about these things (the GW) so I don't need these people. But until then, I do.

I think that Honda should be there, if I need that hammer. They were there taking my money.

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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-02-2009, 02:21 AM
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Kit Carson wrote:
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Dear American Honda:

There is a fellow on this site who needs some help. Dealers have been contacted and the problem has not been resolved.

I had written your company a letter by registered mail and had gotten no timely response so today I called your company.

To begin with just to talk to someone was a very long wait, 35 minutes before anyone would even say hello.

Once I got past the fact it was not my bike I wanted help with, but still a goldwing, I was politely informed that the Company of American Honda does not, will not , in no uncertain terms.......absolutely will not...provide any type, kind or hint of technical assistance to any owner of any Honda motorcycle either by phone or written word.
All technical assistance must come through your dealer.

I was finally given over to a supervisor who documented my complaints with dealer service and my own personal experience with my dealer, but this may or may not do any good.

In the interest of long term relationships with your customers.....I would certainly consider a little bit more of an interest in your customers....might help you keep a few.

I have dealt with both Yamaha and Harley Davidson.......on various issues...and they were always quite helpful and tried their best to explain things and to provide any kind of assistance they could......yes they also prefer you use a dealer......but also understand that at a certain point the buyer becomes totally frustrated with a dealers and wishes to go to the next step.

I sincerely hope you listen to this. I do like my 1800, I think it to be the very best engineered motorcycle to have ever been built.

Still your customer service really stinks......there are no nice words to say......it simply stinks......no other way to explain it.

Kit
wow, kit, i cant believe honda treated you that way. ive never called them, but hell now i know i aint goin to call them. i wonder what the hell they were thinkin?...rick

ALWAYS LET YOUR BACK DOOR MAN KNOW WHEN YOUR FRONT DOOR MAN IS COMMING HOME. RICKS WISDOM: GRAB LIFE BY THE THROTTLE AND DONT LOOK BACK.
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-02-2009, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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winginitrick wrote:
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Kit Carson wrote:
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Dear American Honda:

There is a fellow on this site who needs some help. Dealers have been contacted and the problem has not been resolved.

I had written your company a letter by registered mail and had gotten no timely response so today I called your company.

To begin with just to talk to someone was a very long wait, 35 minutes before anyone would even say hello.

Once I got past the fact it was not my bike I wanted help with, but still a goldwing, I was politely informed that the Company of American Honda does not, will not , in no uncertain terms.......absolutely will not...provide any type, kind or hint of technical assistance to any owner of any Honda motorcycle either by phone or written word.
All technical assistance must come through your dealer.

I was finally given over to a supervisor who documented my complaints with dealer service and my own personal experience with my dealer, but this may or may not do any good.

In the interest of long term relationships with your customers.....I would certainly consider a little bit more of an interest in your customers....might help you keep a few.

I have dealt with both Yamaha and Harley Davidson.......on various issues...and they were always quite helpful and tried their best to explain things and to provide any kind of assistance they could......yes they also prefer you use a dealer......but also understand that at a certain point the buyer becomes totally frustrated with a dealers and wishes to go to the next step.

I sincerely hope you listen to this. I do like my 1800, I think it to be the very best engineered motorcycle to have ever been built.

Still your customer service really stinks......there are no nice words to say......it simply stinks......no other way to explain it.

Kit
wow, kit, i cant believe honda treated you that way. ive never called them, but hell now i know i aint goin to call them. i wonder what the hell they were thinkin?...rick
It is a matter of legal issues. They could certainly be helpful if they wished to without actually providing instructions to an unqualified purchaser, but they have a system in place that provides no technical support to anyone who purchases a machine. It does have to all go through a dealer. Of all the motorcycle manufacturers I have ever dealt with Honda has the most unrelenting system in place of any of them.

You can see their point in some ways, if they were to provide information on the repair of some items, quite possibly the repair would not be properly done and injury or death could be a result. They have no idea of the persons skills calling them, so they simply make sure you go through a dealer.

No I do not like their policy, but as time has went on I have came to understand it. The one saving grace is if you do come afoul of a dealer who will not resolve your situation, or is unable or unwilling to , the warranty does allow you to go to another dealer and obtain service, sometimes this is quite an outlay of time and expense, if the dealer is some distance away. But they could be much more helpful.

I had a problem with a Yamaha Venture. It was a 2007 model and it was one of those deals where I made the original mistake of purchasing it new, sight unseen from a dealer , flying in to get it and riding it home. About 400 miles into the return trip I almost turned it around and took it back to the dealer, but it was too late, it was mine, I was the dummie, I had bought the thing.
The Venture has a history with some of its bikes of a very loud chirp at the clutch basket and it is such a high pitched scream, it will drive you bananas trying to put up with it.
I tried several local dealers and they did fix at it. They changed the clutch basket several times and this and that, one dealer even put on a whole new rear drive and drive shaft.
Still the problem was there, I knew it was the main drive gear in the transmission, but the dealers were unwilling to spit the case and make the repair. Same ole thing about warranty work pays only x amount of money and this one gets into our pockets.

So I wrote a registered letter to Yamaha, and it was amazing. They called me and within two hours of the first call with the folks at Yamaha, a dealer called me. I was given a choice to set up a time and place and bring the bike in to have it repaired, a mechanic familiar with the procedure was put on a plane and flown to the dealer I chose and was standing by when I arrived.
The dealership treated me well, and Yamaha paid for my overnight stay , while they fixed the bike. When they got done with it this time it ran quiet strong and sure. So much for the hype the dealers put out about this situation.

The whole time Yamaha did talk to me, did explain things and tell me the reasons and history behind the problem. It was explained in detail to me what caused the problem and its resolution. And they had things put into place to take care of my bike. It is a shame one must go past dealers sometimes, but I use this as an example of what can be if a company wishes to correct a problem.

On the flip side what I see with Honda is they are not going to enter into the picture and build any fires under any dealers. It is going to have to be up to us, to find a quality dealer who will spend the time and effort to correct a problem without a hassle.


So summary of my experiences is quite simply Honda will help us, but only through a dealer. They will not discuss any technical issues with you the consumer. They will provide support and help to a dealer, in regards to solving your situation, but in no way will involve the customer.

There are most likely some more reasons on the legal side that I do not fully comprehend also. So maybe it is a system put into place to protect the company.

So there is no real set answer, and I will leave it with this comment. I also work for the public, in the plumbing field. If I install a new commode for you and it malfunctions and you call me and ask me how to fix it, I also will not tell you. All I will tell you over the phone is to please turn off the water supply valve to it, and I will come and take care of it. Why? Because if I tell you how to fix it and you do and later on that night the fill mechanism flies apart and floods out the upstairs of the home and does many dollars worth of damage, guess who pays for it? Yep. Joe the Plumber pays the bill!!

So I do wish to be fair, to try to understand, and balance the reasons with the results.

I am getting more mellow with age, and do try to work with the dealers and resolve things if need be. I have learned to leave my temper at the door.

Hope this helps.

Kit

The 1800 is my bike. The very best motorcycle ever made. I was enthralled with my first test ride on this machine. It is a great bike. A crotch rocket with storage bags.............As for oil I use the slick kind, and I like round tires, but as of late I have found square ones work best on the rear. Pirelli Eufori 195/55/16 @ 32 PSI
Kit
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-02-2009, 09:01 PM
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Call me a grumpy old fart....but find the whole.....

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.....Honda will help us, but only through a dealer. They will not discuss any technical issues with you the consumer. They will provide support and help to a dealer, in regards to solving your situation, but in no way will involve the customer.
...thing, an excuse for the dealers to be snotty and have the 'I am here to do you a big fat favor - so don't you forget it!'....attitude.

Not that Honda dealers are alone in this. But this isn't what I had expected from such a well respected company.

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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-12-2009, 11:14 PM
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Kit Carson wrote:
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I would like to add something to all this. Many including myself at times have been to a dealer with some type of situation and the service manager simply seems to have a brain that is somewhat small. You explain it all to him and he says, we cannot help you, or tells you something that you know is mushroom flavored.

Employees are not the dealer. Just like the ones that delivered my bike to me and while standing out in the lot going over it I asked them several times as a hint , what is the correct air pressure for the tires? One said I will look it up for you, another just looked at me. The salesman did not know!!. The bike was also low on coolant, to the point of overheating by the time I got home. I had had Kuryakyn floor boards installed at the dealer and they have to come off to check the coolant level.....well they got lazy . I had a bad wire harness to the right signal light and it was delivered in this shape, they messed with it for an hour, finally I asked the tech, how about just run a continuity check through the harness? Eh? They did and replaced the short little plug in harness, problem solved. They had put in 5 bulbs by then and just about wore the thing out taking it apart. The rear drive had no oil in it and I suppose I ran it for ten days before I decided to just maybe I should check this.....uh oh. So I put some slick kind in it.

This was all the employees, not the dealer, not the owner. Sure it goes against the grain and I would never ever take my bike to them for service as I got a real good first hand impression of these fellows right off the get go. Also another person recently purchased from this dealer an 2009 and the little new tire light was flashing on all the time, so I said to me.........uh huh.......again some dummie did not check the tire pressure, so they are still at it.

However looking beyond all this, if you do have a real problem and the employees will not give you good service, all it takes is to go speak with the owner of the dealership, you will find them for the most part pretty ok folks. They get ambused a lot by employees that have little mushrooms for a brain.

I know this may not make you feel good about them working on your bike, does not me, it scares me to death. But if something serious comes along, like a rare transmission problem or something and you do not want to tackle it yourself, and do get the run around, go talk to the owner, just betcha he will take care of it.

Kit
boy, after reading all that, i am very glad i got my favorite honda dealership: HONDA OF RARDEN. they treat me like gold every time i go in there. ive gone there just to hang out with the "boys". if a problem pops up and i call them, they will say, "bring her in rick"...first name basis....as they take off the panels, they hand them to me and i grab a cloth and their honda spray and wipe it down and set it out of the way and go back for the next one. if he needs help holding something or grabbing something, im right there to do it!...if someone comes in and asks anything about a goldwing, im right there selling it for them..course i have bought 2 goldwings from them , and also sold 3 goldwings for them, and also sold 4 shadows for them. so we all get along just fine. i take care of them, they take care of me..........rick

ALWAYS LET YOUR BACK DOOR MAN KNOW WHEN YOUR FRONT DOOR MAN IS COMMING HOME. RICKS WISDOM: GRAB LIFE BY THE THROTTLE AND DONT LOOK BACK.
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