some ideas - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-29-2011, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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I realize this may be out there, but in looking over the forum, I saw stranger things. I think Honda has simply gone too far with the Goldwing. I have an '85 1200, and it is all the bike I need. I would like to see Honda go back to a 4 cylinder Wing, with a single throttle body FI unit, hydraulic lifters, I would even prefer pushrods. Don't laugh, they work just fine for NASCAR and the NHRA. I would also like to see a basic model, like the original Interstate, without all the gadgetry. No stereo, no compressor, no computer, no cruise control. Some of us just like to ride. If Honda would build something like that for a reasonable price, I would definitely be interested.

"New vehicles move the body. Old vehicles move the soul. Vintage forever"
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-24-2011, 09:37 AM
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Interesting that you would note how well the 'old pushrod design' is working for Nascar and NHRA…. They are REQUIRED to use a pushrod style engine…. REQUIRED to use 2 valve cylinder heads.

If they didn't have to follow the required engine parameters they'd dump the pushrod engine in a second. But to keep everything on an even keel the requirements are there and up to the Crew Chiefs and Engineers to work around them.

Ray
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-24-2011, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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rayworx wrote:
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Interesting that you would note how well the 'old pushrod design' is working for Nascar and NHRA…. They are REQUIRED to use a pushrod style engine…. REQUIRED to use 2 valve cylinder heads.

If they didn't have to follow the required engine parameters they'd dump the pushrod engine in a second. But to keep everything on an even keel the requirements are there and up to the Crew Chiefs and Engineers to work around them.
But look what they have done with pushrods and 2 valves per cylinder. That design is solid and reliable, and is perfectly suited to a touring bike. The new Motus sport touring bike uses pushrods. The new Corvette ZR1 uses a pushrod engine, it is certainly NOT required to. BTW, it tops 200 mph, and outruns several MUCH more expensive cars with DOHC engines and 4 valves per cylinder.

"New vehicles move the body. Old vehicles move the soul. Vintage forever"
"Obsolete does not mean it is not any good, it just means it is not made anymore"
"The simpler the better"
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 07:05 AM
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Remember the Goldwing is made by Honda and Honda are Japanese. The Japanese are not big on pushrods these days.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 07:29 AM
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The engine internals I could care less about, so long as it is reliable. But a lot of us like the gadgets, one of the Goldwings big selling points since they started fitting them with fairings and saddlebags has been the "kitchen sink" approach. I like the gadgets, but not the idea of paying $30k for them.

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 10:28 AM
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Goldwing engines are already proven reliable Ben, so that's a non issue. I think Honda have somewhat addressed the question of different Goldwing models with later 1800s. Its a bewildering way they did it, but at least it's a start.

Alan Fitzpatrick.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
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I don't have a problem with gadgets, but wish youb could get one without them, for those few of us who just like to ride. I like that fairing, bags, and trunk, those are the reasons I bought a Goldwing. But I don't want or need any of the toys, it would be nice if they made one without them, for those who either don't want them, or don't want to pay for them.

While I like pushrods, and believe they are the way to go (and they are certainly proven reliable) OHC engines are ok, but they should at least use a gear driven OHC. Internal chains are a no no to me (and that includes car engines) unless they are easy to replace, and replacing them is on the maintenance schedule, just like replacing the belts. It has been my experience that the belt on belt driven OHC car engines lasts just as long as the timing chain on pushrod engines. Both should be replaced every 50,000-60,000 miles or so. While Honda does correctly recommend replacing the belts every so often, do they also recommend replacing the chain they replaced the belts with, and how much of a job is it? Can it be done without pulling the engine? Because while the engine itself may last 300,000 miles, that chain sure isn't going to. And why go back to manual valves? That's definitely one thing Honda got right on the 1200s and 1500s. And the last question is still, Why 6 cylinders instead of four? The 4 cylinder engine could have been made bigger, without the added complication of 2 more cylinders.

Mechanical technology is fine if it serves a purpose, but if you are using more complicated technology "just because you can", in other words, "technology just for the sake of technology" That just plain doesn't make sense. There is elegance in simplicity. Plus it is proven reliable, and the bottom line, it is cheaper to build, maintain, and repair.

And of course I will always be opposed to any kind of electronic technology used on engines. It's fine for gadgets if you want them, but to have an engine failure because some computerized electronics failed is simply inexcusable. There is a reason why piston powered aircraft do not use any engine related electronics. It's failure rate is several times higher than mechanical parts, and bad things can happen when an aircraft engine fails.


To paraphrase Jeff Goldblum from the original Jurassic Park, just because you CAN do something, doesn't always mean you SHOULD.

"New vehicles move the body. Old vehicles move the soul. Vintage forever"
"Obsolete does not mean it is not any good, it just means it is not made anymore"
"The simpler the better"
Save the environment. STOP the developers.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-29-2011, 12:17 PM
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Oooh, aaah. A GENUINE base model. Now we're talkin'. But I think there is a big fat chance of moving that direction. Maybe a tiny chance if it rides some kind of retro trend.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-01-2011, 01:16 PM
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Back in the very early 60s I was in a leading automotive program as a student. We had a lead instructor who always had a Buick as he had been one of Buick's service reps. Every 10,000 miles he would pull his car into the shop and have the students put a new timing chain in it. Those chains met all standards for replacement. His car always idled like a new one.



My hero Smokey Yunick used his fancy strobe light thing and proved that the chain driven camshaft actually turns backwards to the crankshaft rotation due to the spring pressure on the cam lobes. When Jessel came out with belt drive kits for push rod engined they became an instant hit for the racer set. Being they ran dry (no oil) it made it very easy to make cam timing changes without having to open up the engine. As to if the camshaft still has some momentary backwards movement with the belt drives I do not know.



Now if Honda used gear drives we could get some of those NOISY Pete Jackson gear drives and make our bikes sound like real screamers. Heck might even make the Harley riders cringe in fear before we waxed them in speed contests.





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There is a story to everything we have, everyone we have met and everything we have done or we will do or dream about doing.

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-06-2012, 02:07 AM
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You know one thing that I have noticed is the attempt to keep costs down while making things more techicnal in the meantime to increase service costs. Well anyhow, if you can get the best of both worlds why not for the manufactor, his machines need a service more frequently. Hmm, I think the driving factor is the cost of production. This may be the use of less metal super seaded by electronic devices, or the dumping of carbs in favour of efi. Love carbs, using less durable materials in manufactoring, lighter but stonger?

Also you have to consider one very important point, servicability. People just arnt, or are unwilling to deal with unrelibility, not like the old days.

Look are pushrods easier to service than ohc, yes they are but the average person aint gona do it.

As for the bike, ghess we'll see. 1996 se. Cheers.
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