4 degree vs 6 degree rake - Page 5 - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

 12Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #41 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 12:31 PM
Senior Member
 
CrystalPistol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fairfield, Virginia, USA
Year: 1997
Make: Honda
Model: '97 GL1500SE/ '98 Lehman GTL Trike
Posts: 3,230
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnUSA View Post
Now, for another twist...

My front end is 2" lower than a stock Wing. But, not by design.

I reached out to the manufacturer to ask if they altered the fork length, and was told "no". The 2" sag on my front end is just old age.

I need to bring the springs up to snuff, and then re-evaluate the trike ride to see if I actually need/want to install the rake kit. Right now, I'm riding this thing with a wonky suspension.

With that in mind, which springs would you recommend? Would it be detrimental to install the Progressive #11-1112 without the rake kit?

Or, is this one of those situations where I just need to bite the bullet, and install standard Progressive replacements, and then change to Progressive #11-1112 if/when I decide to install a rake kit?

Thanks.
The 11-1152 springs work better with their rate when used in a OEM GL-1500 front fork set which still has the steeper angle on the fork tubes. The 11-1122 springs with spacers have a softer progressive spring rate and it was through trial and error or experiment of others that showed the 11-1122 springs with the spacers of 1/2 or 3/4" length to ride better in a GL1500 trikes front forks that have been laid back at an increasing angle of 4 or 6 degrees.

It was totally by accident on my part I think, getting numbers mixed up, that I bought the 11-1112 springs and soon found almost impossible to get them and spacers into my fork tubes (I have a 6 degree kit) so I left spacers out. I was thinking I had the 1200 springs, I was pondering this when I double checked the numbers and found I had ordered the wrong springs, but I had them, saw they were minimally smaller in wind diameter, were same rate but 3/4" longer, and so I left them in my forks. Took a long ride later, they were great!

I still wanted to try the 11-1122s so I ordered a set, they were put in with spacers, they worked great too! It's very little difference between the two numbers, but I put the 11-1112s back in with no spacers, 7-1/2 weight fork oil (50/50 mix of 5 wgt and 10 wgt Belray).

Think about fork tube angle, supporting weight, absorbing bumps. 6 degrees more lays fork tubes down from OEM approximate 27 degrees to more like 33 degrees, so a 2" bump verticle in the roadway compresses the spring further, which is why the softer front springs work well.

I think the 11-1122s would be maybe too soft in the front of a still stock GL1500 front end as there's more weight on a 1500's front wheel than on a 1200's. The 11-1152 that were in my forks before I added the 6 degree kit were great ride wise until I added the 6 degree kit, then they were too harsh. It was like they went from soft 35 lb rate until they increased to thier 80 lbs rate, then harsh. I gave them to a guy with stock springs that were sagging, he loved them but his trike was not raked.

If it's going to be miles and maybe years before the rake kit, I'd go with the 11-1152s until / if I put a rake kit on, then do bushings and seals too. That's just me. The softer 11-1112s or 11-1122s with spacers might work with air. I use NO air now in forks. When at rest, my front forks are compressed maybe 1/4-1/2 inch from topped out so there is plenty room for compression, and a softer transition in rates from 40-70 lbs/in. of the 11-1112s.

Once I looked up specs, I saw why the 11-1112s worked so well.

The rake kit will not make a softer ride, it will lighten or lessen effort required to steer however. If I were keeping it stock, with no rake kit, I'd go with the 11-1152 springs and experiment with / adjust fork oil. If you make the mistake of trying a friends trike with rake, you'll go for a rake kit.



.
.
.
1997 GL-1500 SE / 1998 Lehman GTL Trike
...(Candy Spectra Red )

"Make Courtesy Your Code of the Road!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CrystalPistol is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 01:04 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Tacoma, WA
Year: 1995
Make: Honda
Model: Anniversary Model, triked out by TriKing
Posts: 23
It's very tough steering right now, around corners, that sort of thing. Highway is no issue.

If I understand it, the trail should increase when I recover from the 2" sag, which should make things better.

Also, and I don't know if I'm splitting hairs here...should I shoot for 7 1/2 oil weight on non-raked tubes? Or a different weight?

Trying to get the most optimal result first time.

Next, trying to sort out whether or not to do this with forks on bike or not...

Thanks for you help!
JohnUSA is offline  
post #43 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 03:38 PM
Senior Member
 
CrystalPistol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fairfield, Virginia, USA
Year: 1997
Make: Honda
Model: '97 GL1500SE/ '98 Lehman GTL Trike
Posts: 3,230
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnUSA View Post
It's very tough steering right now, around corners, that sort of thing. Highway is no issue.

If I understand it, the trail should increase when I recover from the 2" sag, which should make things better.

Also, and I don't know if I'm splitting hairs here...should I shoot for 7 1/2 oil weight on non-raked tubes? Or a different weight?

Trying to get the most optimal result first time.

Next, trying to sort out whether or not to do this with forks on bike or not...

Thanks for you help!
I found the worst part of no rake was pulling out into traffic in a hurry while turning left or right, steering wanted to straighten out. Also, it was tiring on longer rides on Blue Ridge Parkway, etc. Trail is what the front casters on the shopping buggy has that like to go down hill and fight you as you push groceries across the slanted parking lot. Old John Deere tractor we had had tricycle steering, stem axis and steering axis were the same and it had NO trail, easy to steer across furrows too even when I was pre-teen in my youngunhood years.


Trail is that distance from tire contact point on surface to the point where an imaginary line through the steering stem intersects the same surface when the tire contact point is behind the steering stem axis intersection point, like a caster. With a trike, more trail means harder steering while less trail means easier steering. With a bike, more trail means more tendency to go straight & slower steering as bike steers by leaning the tires.
If the tire contacts the ground ahead of the steering stem axis intersection with surface, you have lead and a tendency to turn around, like pushing a caster backwards.
If the two points coincide, you have no trail & no lead like that old John Deere tractor with tricycle configuration.

When you recover the 2", the trail will increase a little and while you may not notice a difference, steering will be harder if anything. When the front of the trike comes up, the angles of the steering stem and forks will change together, trail will increase. Refer to that drawing last page, extend some lines.

With the EZ Steer kit (they are designed to reduce trail to ease steering), there are two extensions that go in top of the fork tubes to restore ride height after leaning the fork tubes back. They have a hole through the middle. Once in place, they will hold the top of fork springs, so it's easy to remove fork caps, leave extensions in place, and poor fork fluid in after a draining same out the bottom. Easy to change to different weights. If you leave a stock front end on it, with steeper fork angles as is, you'll need closer to 15 wgt fork oil to get damping you like, .
BUT if you rake the front, it's only changing the fork tube angle to closer to horizontal. For the same reasons the lighter 11-1112 springs work, then the 7.5 wgt. fork oil works best (or did in my case). Easy to experiment once the rake kit is in place. To experiment with a stock front end, remove air fittings and leave fork caps alone. Small funnel or syringe helps.

In my opinion, optimal in a GL1500 trike is 6 degree kit , 11-1112 springs, & 7.5 wgt. fork oil and of course, Avon Trike Radial.

.
.
.
1997 GL-1500 SE / 1998 Lehman GTL Trike
...(Candy Spectra Red )

"Make Courtesy Your Code of the Road!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CrystalPistol is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #44 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 09:30 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Tacoma, WA
Year: 1995
Make: Honda
Model: Anniversary Model, triked out by TriKing
Posts: 23
Thanks...getting my thinking backwards.

Do you run any air pressure in yours?
JohnUSA is offline  
post #45 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 08:45 PM
Senior Member
 
CrystalPistol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fairfield, Virginia, USA
Year: 1997
Make: Honda
Model: '97 GL1500SE/ '98 Lehman GTL Trike
Posts: 3,230
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnUSA View Post
Thanks...getting my thinking backwards.

Do you run any air pressure in yours?
NO SIR.


None.


No need, the front forks when at rest only compress 1/4-1/2" from top.

.
.
.
1997 GL-1500 SE / 1998 Lehman GTL Trike
...(Candy Spectra Red )

"Make Courtesy Your Code of the Road!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CrystalPistol is offline  
post #46 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 10:40 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Tacoma, WA
Year: 1995
Make: Honda
Model: Anniversary Model, triked out by TriKing
Posts: 23
Couldn't wait for winter...copied your shopping list and got it all installed, including the Avon tire.

I really appreciate all your previous work, and for taking the time to share it.

I took it for a short ride last night...wow, what a difference!
CrystalPistol likes this.
JohnUSA is offline  
post #47 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 12:12 PM
Senior Member
 
CrystalPistol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fairfield, Virginia, USA
Year: 1997
Make: Honda
Model: '97 GL1500SE/ '98 Lehman GTL Trike
Posts: 3,230
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnUSA View Post
Couldn't wait for winter...copied your shopping list and got it all installed, including the Avon tire.

I really appreciate all your previous work, and for taking the time to share it.

I took it for a short ride last night...wow, what a difference!
No problem, glad to help as I recall to well how tiring a day can be when pushing that "big caster" (exactly what you're doing with stock front end on a trike) through turn after turn on the Blue Ridge Parkway.


Glad to read that you're pleased.

.
.
.
1997 GL-1500 SE / 1998 Lehman GTL Trike
...(Candy Spectra Red )

"Make Courtesy Your Code of the Road!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CrystalPistol is offline  
Reply

  Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums > Forums > Goldwing Technical Forum > Trikes, Trailers and Sidecars

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tow-Pac + 4.5 degree rake kit & riding on 2 wheels dadztoy Trikes, Trailers and Sidecars 13 04-12-2017 07:44 PM
WTB - 4.5 degree rake kit for GL1800 dadztoy For Sale/Wanted Forum 0 07-11-2016 03:16 PM
6 degree rake xetremex Trikes, Trailers and Sidecars 3 08-23-2014 10:37 AM
Get your MA Degree - ccsailor Fun Forum 1 03-02-2007 06:30 PM
Degree Of Addiction Hawker22 Miscellaneous Forum 36 04-02-2006 04:42 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome