Two Batteries idea - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 12:42 AM Thread Starter
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Two Batteries idea

Looking around in basement, looking for a chainsaw I misplaced, found a like new Odyssey PC680 battery bought less than a month after I bought the one that is in our 1997 GL1500 Trike. I had almost forgotten it, I had bought it for a bike that I no longer own, so I got to thinking, build a light weight box and put it in the trunk, place it on a disconnect, and wire it with same type ring terminals. Run POS side straight to terminal on solenoid as OEM, only use it's own ring terminal. Wire NEG side to a battery disconnect that is handy, then to good ground. Comp-u-Fire would easily charge both if left connected.


It'll do me more good having it if needed than sitting on a shelf gathering dust. The PC680 is not heavy, it is AGM, and this is the same trike that lived off a single PC680 from 2004 until 2016 . and that one left here with the bike. Be like carrying my own jump.


PS, I found my chainsaw I was looking for too! Don't know why I stashed it there where I found it though.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 02:45 AM
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The problem with that setup is that the second battery will only charge if your isolation switch is closed. So you would need to remember to close it every time you want to charge the battery, and open it before doing something that would run the battery(s) down. Instead, place a suitable diode across your isolation switch so the battery will charge with the switch open, but can't be drained unless the switch is closed. Be aware that your switch will need to handle the full starting current, so you might want to use a solenoid for that instead.

A similar system is often installed on limos so they can still be started if the main battery is drained running accessories with the engine off. Some are fully automatic, you just turn the key, while others require you push a button to "give yourself a jump".

(This might be a little easier if done on the positive side as there are commercial battery isolators for that side, with current limiting for protection.)
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 03:17 AM
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I don't view that as a problem at all.
Once the AGM battery is charged, it will maintain that charge for a year or more, w/o any supplemental charge. Providing of course, that a switching method is used to disconnect it from the other stuff. like the schematic above.

the AGM on my Auxiliary Generator only gets charged when the generator is running, supplying a/c to my house.

yet, that battery has always measured ~12.6 volts every time I put a VM on it.

and, even when the generator had not been used for 2.5 years, and we had a power failure, the starter whirled over the engine at the usual quick speed, and the generator's engine started up in about 5 seconds.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 08:56 AM
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Used a Balmar Digital Duo Charge unit when I was boating. Would work for this application as well, bit pricey, but a good unit. Here's the site: http://www.balmar.net/products/digital-duo-charge/

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys!

Yes, the PC680 I found was last charged (if ever since I got it winter of 2015) long enough ago that I forgot where I had put it, but is at 12.62 volts still. My box for it (I still have boxes for both) has my note showing 12.84 volts when received.

I think I probably did charge it along with my backup generator's new AGM and the new PC680 from trike and the older but still kicking 2004 vintage PC680 back this past winter with my 2-6-10 amp charger / maintainer that has AGM mode too.

It's just "a thought", not ever seen sign of need unless a problem developed on the road. I think I'd remember to open / close connector. I considered putting it in the trailer, but I seldom pull it. Doing this would be more for piece of mind, and trike has plenty room for it.

As to the switch or disconnect device, I was planning to use one of the kind with a knob you screw down on to make connection, when loosened it disconnects. It's rated 80 amps.

I have one "lock box" in the lower trunk for which to lock my friend in if I leave it in the trunk, but I never do leave it. A battery box for this extra AGM battery would fit nicely in there in place of.


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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I can't decide (but I will soon)

1) do I build and install a dedicated "box" that's 7.125" long X 3.000" wide X 6.750 or 7.000" tall inside (room needed for PC-680) and fasten it in place
or
2) do I simply add a strap inside the lower trunk to secure it in place, and cover the terminals (especially that pos. terminal) with a piece of rubber sheet under the strap?

I know I can lay the PC680 down if I like (it is a AGM battery), the switch in my above post will simply be installed "in line" and I can make the cables as long or short as needed. The more I look in the trunk, with my lock box on the right and the owners book & tool kit simply strapped on the left side, both at front of trunk, the more I favor #2). The strap idea will work, using a 1" wide nylon type strap and would hold the battery upright against the front wall of the trunk, away from the "door" at rear. It would also allow me to move the battery a bit if needed for odd reasons (like simply to access those (-) & (+) screw terminals). Of course, I'd need to use well insulated cabling. This way, the whole rear of trunk stays accessible, things like my camera bag or overnight bags would be easy to insert.

As on Sat, 082419, I unfastened the lock box and removed it and made a place on it's side to set/strap the PC680 beside it, then remounted the lock box. It's a wooden lock box I made of 3/4" stock with 3/8" plywood top and bottom, glued & screwed seams. It's not Fort Knox, but it's not meant to be. It's sealed, painted black, interior is 8X7X3". It's bolted to trunk floor with 4 1/4" bolts from inside and nylock nuts/etc under trike rear. It'll more than secure the battery beside it.

Again, my only reason for the second battery idea is simply because I have it and to simply leave it on a shelf seems "wasteful" to me. I don't need another portable power source, I have two still good / used group 65 batteries in a cart I built years ago, they are rated @ like 850 CCA each. I charge them occasionally. If I need a boost or power, they are ready.

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 06:21 PM
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Those screw knob disconnects are great. We have two in the '63 Nova I helped build. They handle way more than 80 amps intermittently. Why not just hook it up and leave it alone? The disconnect is nice to have to be able to charge one battery at a time if needed, but there shouldn't be any real need to ever disconnect the battery.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation

Well, the ones I have acquired (2) are smaller (to give an idea of size, they are about 2.48" long) than those used on cars, for example the holes are suited to 6mm or 1/4" (tight fit) screws or bolts. I will put one to each battery on the neg side so I can easily disconnect all battery juice if it's gonna be off road for awhile, like winter, or charge each independently, but easy to fire up.

I have also used the bigger ones on cars, and they do work well. I used them last on my '77 F150 & .92 Thunderbird Sport and our '08 GT. I was gonna use one on others but it causes the computer to reset and have to relearn on newer stuff, so I removed it from the GT. Then one day, my wife went to drive or move the '92, she didn't know about it and so I was called about a "problem". I removed them then as the only two I had them on did not have parasitic power drains anyway. I just spread my use and give all a drive on occasion now.


Edit 082519: Made up some lugs from 5/16" copper tubing yesterday evening (mashed end flat for bolt, drilled 15/64" hole, cut to length, and soldered to cables) & made some stiff stainless steel "L" mounts for the disconnect devices to mount the devices off neg terminal of the batteries, rethreaded some chintsy 5mm holes to 6mm threads, and tomorrow I will solder my copper lugs to the 4ga. red and black battery cables (I fond them hanging on a basement joist, I don't know when or for what I bought them, but they were long enough for this project, they might have been leftover from a winch project years ago?), drill holes in my custom lugs for attachment, and route them to the trunk battery (& protect that red one). The red pos (+) cable will piggy back off the OEM position battery like a jumper cable would attached at the pos terminal (Should not cause a problem as the wiring from there to trike start circuit can supply all it will draw) ... but the neg cable will terminate at a ground terminal on the trike's frame. Took a few experimental tries to get that one hanging off the trike's normal battery's negative terminal and the regular ground cable attached in a position that it did not hamper access to the rear master cylinder reservoir cap but I got it done.


Edit 082619: Well, tonight I ran the red pos (+) cable along the frame rearwards and dropped down into the trunk (picked a spot where unlikely to see water intrusion) to very near just above the pos (+) terminal location of battery in trunk. There is about 18-20" of excess cable which allowed me to "coil" it (against the trunk front wall out of the way) as I attached it to the battery and placed the battery in position and strapped in place. The negative connection is to the disconnect on the end of the battery now facing the trunk door. I ran this black cable through the floor in a discrete place straight down from the battery end and grounded the cable to the trike frame at the rear. Cabling is secured with "a few" zip ties and the red one also protected by plastic split loom.


Edit 090419:Well, appointments . but gonna go get her inspected tomorrow. Those two Odyssey AGMs and my hook up work great! Today I checked charges, both at 96 and 97 %. Was so easy to charge to 100% each at same time using AGM setting on 6 amps.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonimusMaximus View Post
Those screw knob disconnects are great. We have two in the '63 Nova I helped build. They handle way more than 80 amps intermittently. Why not just hook it up and leave it alone? The disconnect is nice to have to be able to charge one battery at a time if needed, but there shouldn't be any real need to ever disconnect the battery.
They are like I said, just a 0.02" hair less than 2-1/2 inches long to give perspective. The silver screw that you hook cables to is 5 mm and poorly threaded in the lower body. That blue knob is molded around a brass 5 mm bolt for lack of better term, it's also threaded into the upper body part through the lower and the white plastic insulating piece but the threads are only marginally better.
In the interest of long term durability, I drilled both out (after ascertaining that 6 mm would clear the larger hole in lower part insulated from upper part) to tap out to 6 mm and used a new tap. I brought a 6 mm bolt through both from the back side and snugged up well I then used a nut & washer on the wire mount "stud" I made steel knobs from some odd bits I had and tapped a center hole at the same 6 mm thread. I installed the knobs I made and then used a thin lock nut on the end of the "stud" to stop the knob spinning off when I open the disconnects. 1-1/4 turn from open to close max. Works great. I even bought a spare, just to have, in case one breaks someday.

When building my home, I was often accused by a buddy of never using just two 16Ds where three or four will fit.

I demonstrated for that buddy when helping him build his home, that you can use construction adhesive and four 16Ds on a wall stud end. Then he had the nerve of asking me to go find some bent nails and straightening them.

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 05:41 PM
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My thoughts are:

Do NOT have the 2nd battery in parallel permanently.
Its' intention is to be an Emergency battery to get you "the hell out of Dodge" in case you have a late night party, and forget to turn off the Stereo and run the main battery down.

For me? If I felt the need to "keep it charged", I would use a relay triggered by the Accessory terminal. That relay could place the battery in parallel with the main battery.

I am betting that you use it to help a friend, way more often than for yourself.
been there, done that one. For that reason, you would want to be able to remove it easily.

the series Diode idea has a major flaw:
the 2nd battery would never get a full charge owing to the fact that diodes have a defined Voltage Drop across the junction.
  • Silicon ~0.7 volts
  • Germanium ~0.2 volts

I too, have a spare AGM setting in my office...
use it sporadically to power up something that needs 12 volts while I play with it inside the house.

as for a dedicated box? it does not need one, just pack the Saddle bag appropriately to keep it from bouncing around..... or, add a strap to keep it in place.
Frogg Toggs and the bike covers should do the job adequately, that is how I hold the spare 1 gallon Jerry can for my "Get the hell out of Dodge" when I run out of gasoline. ( done that already once for myself )
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