Hi guys. My GL1200 front left brake hardly stops. It seems like the hand lever can't perform enough pressure on the front left brake. Bleeding is not the problem. I did any kind of bleeding including using a vacuum pump. There is no air in the system. The lever gets to the grip with one finger. I feel like the pressure is 20% of what is was in the past. When I roll the bike slowly, about 5 mph, and using only the brake lever, the bike stops, but slowly. When the bike is on neutral and I'm pressing the lever, it's hard to move the bike but with some leg force I can move it a bit.
When I first got my bike I had the same issue as it turned out there was something wrong with the brake pads themselves maybe they had been soaked in something like kerosene I don't know. But once I put new brake pads on it worked great.
Of course other folks will let you know about the lines and possibly changing those out with some that are wrapped so that they don't expand. I didn't find it necessary the old lines seem to work just fine.
Hi guys. My GL1200 front left brake hardly stops. It seems like the hand lever can't perform enough pressure on the front left brake. Bleeding is not the problem. I did any kind of bleeding including using a vacuum pump. There is no air in the system. The lever gets to the grip with one finger. I feel like the pressure is 20% of what is was in the past. When I roll the bike slowly, about 5 mph, and using only the brake lever, the bike stops, but slowly. When the bike is on neutral and I'm pressing the lever, it's hard to move the bike but with some leg force I can move it a bit.
I suspect the caliper is not floating on it's bracket. When you release the brake lever the pistons on the caliper are pushed back in to the caliper as it returns. (because it is not floating as it should) Next time you use the brake most of the travel is wasted just pushing the pistons back out against the rotor. No lever (master cylinder) travel left to build pressure. The caliper has to float on the pins freely.
It's kind of hard to explain but if you go to the website below you will see a sleeve #31 and a sleeve #16. Imagine you had no brake pads installed but the caliper was completely installed. With the pads absent you could slide the caliper side to side on these pins axially. The caliper has to float side to side on these sleeves. (call them sliders) The first time the bike ever had the brakes applied the caliper grabbed on to the rotor and slid in a position it "wanted" to be. Life is good. Problem is these slider sleeves get rusted and don't like to slide freely. Now the caliper is stuck in one position. At first it is not so bad because it is roughly where it needs to be. Problem is as the pads wear the caliper can not move so you have to pump more and more fluid in to the caliper to get the pads to grab the rotor. Eventually the amount of fluid required to get the pistons to work is greater than you can get by squeezing the lever. You are stroking the master cylinder all the way but the amount of brake fluid displaced will only push the brake pads up and against the rotor. No grip. You might need to take the brakes apart. Find slider sleeves #31 1n3 #16. Clean them up so they slide freely and you might be in business???? Then when you apply the brakes the caliper will slide then grab....the rotor. Next time it is right where it needs to be so it just grabs the rotor right away. If the pads wear (now the sliders slide) the caliper will slide over a bit and all is good for the next brake application. The caliper needs to float.
It sounds like you are confident you have no air in the system. Just to be sure maybe bleed the front brake normally but on the side stand with the bars turned all the way to the left. This will assure the master cylinder is highest point. Just to be sure.
You can take the caliper off and take the pads out and reassemble it. You must be able to slide the caliper in and out. If not #31 or/and #16 are stuck. Fairly common. Especially on older bikes.
Gurus...could this be a case of return line in master cyl needing cleaning?
If so:
There is a small plate at bottom of master, remove fluid, remove 2 screws and poke hole with single wire from a wire brush, the end of a guitar string etc, tiny thin wire
All the bleeding from the bottom wont matter if an air bubble is trapped at the banjo bolt
Have to pump lever halfway a few times, then burp the banjo with it as high point- as noted in above post
DO cover banjo and surrounds with rags, or say goodbye to some paint!
Apply a small amount of bearing grease or brake caliper grease to the threads of bleeder nipple, seals out any possible air suck-back
Sometimes its the simple things. You verified free motion of calipers and pads?
Except when the return hole is plugged it applies the brakes and they dragged all the time.
While you have the calipers off go ahead and push the Pistons out and clean all of that up. Remove the dust seal and oil seal and clean behind them and carefully replace them. When you're done you should be able to easily Slide the Pistons in by hand. As well as getting the slides loosened up so that they actually move.
If you happen to find pitting in the slide sleeve you'll want to replace it at some point.
Dennis is right the lever should not touch the grip. That would indicate air in the system.
Dennis and Jeff, I tried the banjo bleeding. Still the lever gets to the grip easily with no difference. I'll examine the caliper, install new pads, will do bleedibg on main stand & side stand and the banjo bleedibg. I'll let you all know.
Again, thank you very much for your time and effort.
You could be right Jeff. I overlooked that so a good catch. Usually that happens a little at a time and using the lever quickly will make for one good stop each time. The seal usually gets hard and loose there resilience. It takes a quick shot to make the lip of the seal jump out. If you take the cover off and squeeze the lever you should see the fluid spray back in to the reservoir. Protect the area so you don't accidently s[ay brake fluid on the paint. A little spurt is normal. Not a constant "stream" over the length of the stroke.
OK. After all of your answer I started to check. I disconnected the line from the master cylinder. Pressed very hard the output hole. A tiny press on the lever created a pressure, my finger could not hold it and the fluid sprayed.
So I guess the master cylinder is fine.
Is it possible that air is entering the system after the bleeding while no fluid is going out?
If you put the bike on the center stand and get the front wheel off the ground and spin the wheel and apply the brake,does it stop the wheel and if it does can you still turn the front wheel while holding the brake lever down,might just be pads bad
Your answer is in the third post.
To get all the air out of the line try turning the bars to the left with the bike on the side stand and pump the lever.
He said at the beginning the brake lever is touching the handlebars when he squeezes it with one finger.
And as was stated this typically occurs when there is air in the system.
My favorite way of bleeding brakes is using a clear hose over the bleeder valve so I can watch the old brake fluid and any air leave as I pump the lever and add new brake fluid as needed. The added advantage of using this method is no air is able to be pulled back in to the bleeder valve except possibly around the threads of the valve.
I'm not sure if it was mentioned in this thread but only one of the front calipers is controlled by the front brake lever.
As some of the guys suggested, I put the bars to the left with the bike on the side stand and did the bleeding again. The presume is the same. No change at all.
As some of the guys suggested, I put the bars to the left with the bike on the side stand and did the bleeding again. The presume is the same. No change at all.
Watch the caliper as you pull the lever, does it have any perceptible movement? Put your hand around the hoses and pull the lever, can you feel them grow?
Ron,
Did you ever check to see if the caliper was froze to the pins? If so it will push the pistons back each time you use the brake. Then you have to push them back out before and if you get any brake power. The master cylinder does not put out much fluid in one pull. Might be just enough to bring the caliper pistons back to the rotor. No real pressure because it ran out of travel.
I just checked the caliper with my son. The pads do not move and there is a little bit of fluid going out. So I guess I have to take apart the caliper and install new seals. Here is another movie i just took.
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