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Well, yesterday I went to a public auction, I was looking for a 1984 Goldwing that was there 3 wks ago....And there she was!!

When I was there last time, there were about 10 Harleys and this one lonely wing.

Apparently the reserve wasn't met last time. It was the ONLY bike there this time.

I had a good look at it, it was in top condition. It has 53K on it. I had never seen a standard before; Everything on this bike looks new, I found out that the owner was there and talked to him for a bit.

He has had this wing for 10 yrs and in all that time has only put 5K on it! The tires were new last yr. It has leather saddle bags, a small handlebar mount windshield, drivers back rest and a passenger back rest that is attached to what looks like a rack like where the trunk would be on an Interstate or Aspencade. Long story short.....I WON the bid!!:clapper:

I thought I would just try it....I got it for $1850.:DAfterwards the owner approched me to tell me about the bike, he says it has never let him down, but, he has been chaseing a problem with the idle; It will start and run fine for about 10 min, then *sometimes* it will start to run as if the choke was still on. Also it smokes a bit~for 3~5 seconds ( both sides) after first started.

He said he has had the valve guides done....didn't help. Also the battery was totally dead, they had to jump it to get it on the block. After the auction I got a boost and was driving it home and only got about 6~7 Km when it started to miss and quit on me. I had already brought a new battery that came with my 87 Aspencade I bought in Jul. Of coarse it was in my van back at the auction site.

A biker friendly guy was driving by and gave me a lift back to get the battery. I put it in and everything was working great! I still had another 5k to go, I was almost there when it started to miss and backfire, I still had lots of battery power,but, I could see black smoke from the exhaust when it backfired.

So, I'm looking for direction here, the PO told me he had the carbs cleaned, I did look @ the air filter, it was literally BRAND NEW, and inside the airbox also looked NEW it was that clean.

In the tool ( storage box) in the false tank were 4 old plugs, it was clear this engine has been running very rich. Where should I start looking first??:(

Oh, one thing I forgot to add, I noticed that when I opened the fuel cap to check it, there was a definate vaccum; Would thatindicate a blocked vent? That crossed my mind when it quit, because it started to run really rich..as if the choke were on....mmm maybe I answered my own question??

I know someone here will send me in the right direction....:waving:
 

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That sounds more like an electrical problem that comes and goes. The one that jumps to mind is pulse generators. Normally they fail when hot and then work again when cool. When they fail the ignition just dies, but it could be that they are acting erratically when they get hot. Are all of the plugs in the same condition, or is it only one side that is running rich?

My 1200 had that vaccuum when I opened the gas tank. I always assumed it was a pressurized system.
 

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Bike...and Dennis wrote:
You knew somone on this forum could answer your question, and someone did...You!
Is that supposed to help, or confuse!?

Blade Runner2,

My bike often has that vacuum too, I think it is normal because my bike seems to be fine. But if I am wrong, I would hope that someone would be kind enough to tell me why.
 

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Thanks for the replys; I went hunting for some sea foam to day....no joy, I'm sure when it quit the first time on my way home was because the battery just was totaly flat....not even enough juice to power the ignition system.
I tried to sound the horn while I was driving and it just made the lights blink. It was right after that it started to sputter and then quit.
The horns are after market and trying them must have sucked whatever bit of power that was left.
As far as the vaccume thing; I thought that if there was no air getting into the tank it was only a matter of a few minuets before it would run rich and quit. After a battery change it ran great for another 10 min.....then started to backfire w/ black smoke..but I know the battery still had lots of power, cause I started it up a couple of times after I got home. I looked at the dog bone fuse....no problems there, I also checked the infamous "three yellow wires" and the plug had aready been cut out.
I may have other issues going on with that part.
Also, I noticed a switch on the center handlebar cover, I didn't know what it was for.....till after I changed the battery and ran the bike for about 10 min idleing.....the temp guage was going up.I fliped the switch..yep...a fan switch!
Temp went back down after that...maybe all this was just a fluke cause it got too hot from not having the fan running? Maybe vaporizing the fuel from being too hot?
Well, 2:30 comes early...night all...keep the info comming....I'm on a mission now!!...LOL
 

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I also think you have a pulse generator issue that is causing your shut downs!
 

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first thing you need to do is make sure that the battery is charged up with a trickle charge overnite,new batteries will have some charge but system will not get it properly charged unless u travel a long way,then u need to check that the charging system is working ok,then u need to check and make sure the the coils are putting out a good spark because that will cause it to run rich also because you are not burning the fuel correctly,also as hatchetman stated u may have a pulse generator issue,then again it may have some bad fuel in the carb bowls that get sucked up after running awhile,lots of possibilities,you'll just have to work them out one by one,but since u already have a wing i am sure you'll get it running ok with some patience and sweat(tears not req)

good luck
 

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Well, today I did a bit of digging; I went to my local Honda guy to order a few parts and get some info on pulse generators. Of coarse they are not available for my standard......BECAUSE they are totally different on 84 standards!! 85~87 are all the same, that was a surprise to me..but, what do I know?..hehehe.
After seeing what I saw on Hondas computer, I just HAD to check my own Honda shop manual..He was right! The pulse generators are on the BACK of the engine case!...Oh poop! You have to remove the swingarm to get to them.... :~(. On another note; I checked the charge at the battery while running the engine @ 2500...ZIP!..Oh poop again.. :~(.
The stator plug has been cut out & replaced with butt conectors( well sealed). I haven't checked to see if there is any continuity between the 3 yellows yet..will do that tonight. as far as the battery goes, I put the one from my 87 in it to get it home, that battery was new this fall and was fully charged. The one that came in the 84 was deader than a door nail..BUT! It came back after a 5 hr charge @ 2A last night, I checked again awhile ago and it's still @ 12.68V..That's after sitting in a cold (2C) garage all night and all today...so maybe it's going to be OK. BTW, I did find some Sea~Foam.. :~). I put some in the 84 gas tank, and a wee bit in the crankcase.
As luck would have it, I have a couple of V-45 Sabre rec/reg hanging around.( tested good ) They are identical to the 87,except for the plug..but, I can remove the wires from the plug and just insert them into the old plug, even the part # is the same....How's that for hoseshoes??..hehehe.
I plan to stick one in the 84 if the stator checks OK. I'm just wingin here, I'm thinking if the reg/rec is done ( fried) no charge would show at the battery..Am I nuts? Or is that how it works?
Anyway, a new adventure is always fun; Keep the suggestions comeing..I need all the help I can get, and I DO appreciate all the replies...... :~)

nsjoe: Sorry I didn't answer your ?: Yes, all 4 plugs are carboned up the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
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Well, I put a known good reg/rec in last night and fired it up~ No joy..still "0" Volts at the battery. However, the seemingly rich conditon is getting worse! The bike only ran for 6~7 min and I had to use full choke to keep it running. All the while it was back~firing and popping. The battery voltage slowly dropped down to 11.8 or so,but, came back up after shutting down the engine. Seems like I have a dead short somewhere??
I still haven't checked the stator w/ engine running yet. I was hopeing the reg/rec would do the trick. I'm also going to add fresh fuel to the tank, the fuel they had @ the auction may not have been the best as it was on my way home from there that it started to back~fire and quit.
I suppose there are a few things going on..I'll get em sorted or.....I won't.....LOL.
 

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First things first...find the short and the rest may be part of it. I know mine runs like crap with a dead battery.

Does the bike have any electrical accessories? If so, that's where I'd start looking.
 

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ladeRunner2 wrote:
Well, I put a known good reg/rec in last night and fired it up~ No joy..still "0" Volts at the battery. However, the seemingly rich conditon is getting worse! The bike only ran for 6~7 min and I had to use full choke to keep it running. All the while it was back~firing and popping. The battery voltage slowly dropped down to 11.8 or so,but, came back up after shutting down the engine. Seems like I have a dead short somewhere??
I still haven't checked the stator w/ engine running yet. I was hopeing the reg/rec would do the trick. I'm also going to add fresh fuel to the tank, the fuel they had @ the auction may not have been the best as it was on my way home from there that it started to back~fire and quit.
I suppose there are a few things going on..I'll get em sorted or.....I won't.....LOL.
when u are talking about "o" volts such as wasn't charging right?

first check your stator wires to see if its working if it is your problem is probably not the regulator but is in the regulator connectors,had a similar problem this summer when i bought an sei,that statrted to develop the same problem out of the blue, would be fine for a couple minutes but two miles down the road or so voltage would drop to 11.5,take it back home and would idle at 14 volts,down the road 2/5 miles would start all over again,hardwired the same regulator using 10 ga wire and hooking both greens and both reds together plus adding another ground wire coming off conn over to the frame and it has been charging at 14.3 to 14.5 ever since

dont think a short is the problem or battery wouldn't be recovering so easily once u turn it off.... its probably just bad connections from the stator to regulator and make sure that the black wire coming thru the connector ends up going to a good 12V source because that's how the regulator determines the cutoff limit on the charge circuit
the best way is with a relay that is switched on with the key and ends up with 12v signal directly from the battery....good luck with your problem.....let us know outcome

i am beginning to believe the more i see it that the problem with the stator connectors on the 84-87 didn't start with the connector at the battery but are the result of problems developing at the regualtor connector which fries the stator connector first cause its the weakest link in the circuit.....imho :waving:
 

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BladeRunner2 wrote:
The pulse generators are on the BACK of the engine case!...Oh poop! You have to remove the swingarm to get to them....
The pulse-gens can be tested without removing them.
 

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is it possible that the stator either isn't generating enough power to allow the coils to fire properly (weak spark causing the rich looking plugs), or that a poor connection between the stator and the coils is causing that condition? You are definitely in the right area. You need to find out if the stator is making any electricity. I don't remember hearing of a pulse generator issue where they worked poorly. They seem to either work or don't work.....not to say it isn't possible. This is like a jigsaw puzzle with some pieces missing...
 

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Well this is a standard..no accessories at all. Except Fiaam horns..but that dosen't count 'cause they aren't on....unless you push the button of coarse..LOL
One other thing on this bike; There is a manual switch for the fan, I guess the sensor didn't work and the PO just put the switch in instead of replacing the sensor...cheaper? No worries there, I have a couple kicking around I can use.
There is no sign of fried wires from the stator or the reg/rec,but, the plug has been cut out, probably preventive. I haven't done it yet (will tomorrow) but if I'm lucky it might just be bad gas...in the tank that is...:~).
I will check the stator wires for continuity/short tomorrow as well, it's freezing here now,but, tomorrow it's supposed to be 14C...That will be a nice break..too bad I won't be riding! up up and away!
 

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Well, the weather is just AWESOME! 17C and wall~wall sunshine.... :). Here comes the wierd part of this puzzle; Today I went to my shop and filled the tank with fresh fuel, I had already recharged the battery and she fired up instantly..so far so good, well it was running not too badly on full choke, a miss here and there....but not much black exhaust. I put about half a can of Sea Foam in and ran it for about 25 min! It got better and better, now I can rev it up to 2500~3000 and it is not popping & banging like it was! ;)Now I'm feeling good! I ran it for another 10 min.with the fan running constantly and a floor fan blowing on the rad. Now it will idle @ 550~600...with NO choke!! Holly cow! In fact it was idleing so low the oil light was flickering!
How's that for a BIG improvement? :clapper:The PO told me he had owned the wing for 10 yrs,but, he only put 5K on it in all that time. Now; This is where things get REALLY strange: I had to run to the store, I pulled the plug wires off the left side intending to remove the plugs when I got back,well I was gone for about 30 min. I went back in the shop, without even thinking I fired her up to see if it would still run as it was..HOLLY CRAP!:shock: I forgot to put the plug wires back.
HOWEVER I didn't notice at first BECAUSE it ran exactly the same!!..What the hell?????:shock:
How could it run & idle mind you..with two plug wires removed??? I'm at a loss for this one..The only up side might be that it could point directly to one bad coil??
Am I on the right track here? The battery is back on charge right now, it actually only went from 12.82 down to 12.03 in that 25~30 min run with all the lights on. So, I'm feeling good that one issue may have been solved,:clapper: I'll know for sure when I change out the coils..The puzzle continues...Keep the info comming boys..we're almost there!:cheeky1:

Oh ya, I forgot to ask; with the wires off the left bank, which coil would that indicate to look at??
 

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Guess i'm talking to myself...OK; I changed out one coil, I had one from an 83 Sabre..exactly the same part. The one I took off had an open reading when I checked it..so I changed it, didn't make any difference. But, I think the Sea foam is working, I can now idle as long as I want to..runs great; But, if I run it up to 3000~3500 it starts to pop again. I'm thinking it must have something to do with the carb set-up. If I close the choke at that RPM it smooths right out and will rev up with no problem....I don't get it...I also check the continuity @ the stator. .05 on all 3 legs, with the bike running I get 25.7V on two legs & 1.56V on the other one. If I'm mesuring correctly looks like my startor is done.
Did some clean up on the connectors too, put some grease in them.can't hurt! I took the ground wire off @ the reg/rec and cleaned it up and made sure it was tight.
Well, too tire to work any more tonight...tomorrow is another day...cheers.
 

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Sounds like your stator is toast. I think your floats are a little low causing a lean condition at higher rpms. Bowls are running out of fuel. This could also be due to a restriction in the fuel filter which would not allow enough fuel volume into the carbs to keep up with demand!
 

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definitely low readings on the stator output
just to be sure,these readings are ac volts.. right? really sounds like the stator almost has to be working because i would think that it would have been discharged alot mote than that in a half hour....i still think alot of your problem is in that reg connector area

using the choke to keep the bike running shows that it is too lean....not rich the popping is a leanout situation

and if the seafoam is working some maybe the sync is off so much that it is creating part of the problem

happy hunting
 

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The coils run side to side on the 1200. So I don't think it's a coil unless someone had put the plug wires on wrong at some point. But you said it was running great when you first put the battery in. I think, since you have the '87, you'd know if the bike was running right. If the plug wires were on wrong, it wouldn't run well, if at all.

It kind of sounds like there was water in the fuel. When you rev up the engine, the high speed jets start drinking from the bottom of the bowl where water (heavier than gas) sits. It sounds like fresh fuel and some Sea-Foam are taking care of that.

 

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BladeRunner,

The output voltage on each leg of the alternator should be between 50 - 70 VAC.

The coils are set up to fire the front or rear cylinders, not side to side. The #1 cylinder is right front, #3 is right rear, #2 is left front and #4 is left rear. One coil fires #1 and 2, the other, #3 and 4.

(Edited to include graphic)
 

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