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the main reason I say I'm going to put it back is when I opened them a little more it wouldn't even idle anymore without me restricting the airflow on top of the bowls
I thought I was dealing with a lean condition not I'm not so sure it was even off at all
I have to figure out why when I try to raise the throttle with the thumb screw to get it to idle at 750 to 800 it will die instead of raise the idle. I never really picked up on it until now with the air filter out
before it would raise the idle but it also made the throttle down very slow, I mean slow as in let off throttle then wait, wait, wait now shift but if I kept it right at or just under 750 it was fine
I can crank my 97 up and all it does is idle high, I did that when I was first teaching my wife how to ride, that way she didn't struggle with taking off until she got the hang of it, then I turned it back down
If you open the throttle via the throttle grip or the thumb screw you are allowing more air in the engine. If all is good the carb will respond by adding an appropriate amount of fuel. Then all is well. What if the carb can not add more fuel because of a low float level or plugged circuits in the carb. The engine starves for fuel and gets so lean it just dies???????

To answer your next question, if you goose it the accelerator pump will richen the mixture and the engine could well be good enough to respond. If you accelerate s-l-o-w-l-y the accelerator pump does not pump fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
some good news, I made some progress last night. I decided to reset the air mix screws back to factory starting setting of 2 turns out, then rather than opening them more I closed them about a 1/2 turn leaving me at 1.5 . I did this before even starting the motor. I started and let it warm up and once warm it was idling with carbs uncovered and choke off and I was able to adjust the idle with the thumb screw. I carefully adjusted the mix back and forth to get what felt like the best idle, ended up about 1 3/4 and then I tried giving gentle throttle, there was a tiny hesitation but it came up nice, then I put the little pieces of pre filter I have over the carb bowls and the idle smoothed out even more and the easy throttle got better. so I left it there and will go back and run it again to test it to see if it continues to run as well before I put the filter assy back on. I did plug the vacuum hose from the fuel petcock and couldn't tell any difference
 

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some good news, I made some progress last night. I decided to reset the air mix screws back to factory starting setting of 2 turns out, then rather than opening them more I closed them about a 1/2 turn leaving me at 1.5 . I did this before even starting the motor. I started and let it warm up and once warm it was idling with carbs uncovered and choke off and I was able to adjust the idle with the thumb screw. I carefully adjusted the mix back and forth to get what felt like the best idle, ended up about 1 3/4 and then I tried giving gentle throttle, there was a tiny hesitation but it came up nice, then I put the little pieces of pre filter I have over the carb bowls and the idle smoothed out even more and the easy throttle got better. so I left it there and will go back and run it again to test it to see if it continues to run as well before I put the filter assy back on. I did plug the vacuum hose from the fuel petcock and couldn't tell any difference
Not to be a pessimist, because I hope you have it solved, but hard to believe a 1/4 turn on the mixture screws made much difference, Hope you got it though.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
honestly I'm not of a belief that that little adjustment fixed everything but it was a big step forward from where I was Sat when I started this. it went from a very rough idle and not being able to adjust it without it dying to fairly smooth idle and being able to adjust it up to 1K and the engine not die and being able to accel slowly and it not stall out. I just know it was a improvement in the right direction
 

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some good news, I made some progress last night. I decided to reset the air mix screws back to factory starting setting of 2 turns out, then rather than opening them more I closed them about a 1/2 turn leaving me at 1.5 . I did this before even starting the motor. I started and let it warm up and once warm it was idling with carbs uncovered and choke off and I was able to adjust the idle with the thumb screw. I carefully adjusted the mix back and forth to get what felt like the best idle, ended up about 1 3/4 and then I tried giving gentle throttle, there was a tiny hesitation but it came up nice, then I put the little pieces of pre filter I have over the carb bowls and the idle smoothed out even more and the easy throttle got better. so I left it there and will go back and run it again to test it to see if it continues to run as well before I put the filter assy back on. I did plug the vacuum hose from the fuel petcock and couldn't tell any difference
Any time you get a dramatic improvement in running quality when blocking or limiting air flow into the carburetor you are running lean. You do not adjust, check or make settings on a carburetor with vacuum hoses loose and flapping in the breeze, they are to be connected to the underside of the air box and then the whole box gets pushed off to one side or the other while running to work on stuff.

You are treating mixture screws globally, same amount of turns on each carb. Each carburetor is responsible for one bank and as such it gets adjusted for that particular bank and carburetors unique running characteristics. At the end of the day one might be 2 turns and its next door neighbor 2&1/4 turns. Those mixture screw starting points of 2 turns was years ago when we had real gas and with corn fuel nowadays they need to be opened a pinch more all else equal. Again a sign that something is amiss in your set-up.

Your machine sat for two years and I suspect those pilot jets were NOT replaced.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #26
OK not to say your wrong or I don't believe your comments but I don't understand them. what good does it do hooking up the vacuum hoses to the filter box and then have the box off to the side and the bowls still wide open, I fail to see the difference of just leaving them as is
not to mention you would have to add a good bit of hose with connectors to even be able to do that. this is the first time I have ever heard of doing it that way. I don't think that little adjustment solved everything but I have to be able to keep it running at idle on it's own to move forward, again all I'm saying is it was progress on getting to the bottom of what is going on.
 

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There are only two vacuum hoses under the box towards left side, the pink and green. If left unconnected you have open manifold vacuum leaks which will lean the mixture on left bank where they originate from.:)
 
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I had a Honda shop clean and rebuild my carb's. They used the kits I provided from Sabercycle. They used the primary jets that were in the kits. I think they were #48's, my bike ran just like you are describing. I had the old jets from Honda and put them back in, they were #58's. also the diaphrams were bad so I replaced them with honda oem parts. I've never been back to that Dealer he also put tape across my intake to slow the air intake. So I think you are running out of gas as in too lean a mixture. Also don't buy carb kits from Saber.
 

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I dare anyone to win a conversation with Lady Snake Sabre
 

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I had a Honda shop clean and rebuild my carb's. They used the kits I provided from Sabercycle. They used the primary jets that were in the kits. I think they were #48's, my bike ran just like you are describing. I had the old jets from Honda and put them back in, they were #58's. also the diaphrams were bad so I replaced them with honda oem parts. I've never been back to that Dealer he also put tape across my intake to slow the air intake. So I think you are running out of gas as in too lean a mixture. Also don't buy carb kits from Saber.
When rebuilding carbs never use aftermarket jets. If yours are not damaged clean them and reuse the originals, if somehow damaged get new OEM jets. And don't buy from sabre cycle.
 
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When rebuilding carbs never use aftermarket jets. If yours are not damaged clean them and reuse the originals, if somehow damaged get new OEM jets. And don't buy from sabre cycle.
I always advise folks on a Forum to purchase new OEM pilot jets and get a lot of flak for it. The typical novice clean job is looking at them, spraying some carb clean or air on them and reinstall, if removed at all. Sooooo many cannot clean the cement like crud out of them and come back with same problems. New pilots go a long way towards a successful outcome.:)
 
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Read through this whole thread, I chased one like this once that liked the floats set higher than spec. I (and my friend-his bike) ended up leaving them set 1mm high to smooth out the drivability. All I could think of is that the castings were somehow different. The ultrasonic cleaner got a lot of use on that job. I kept thinking that I had a blockage/restriction somewhere. Even went so far as to use virgin cleaning solution to see any results floating in the fluid. They were clean. Also when chasing that drivability issue, it got compression and cylinder leakage tests to confirm basic mechanic’s of the engine. All good.
Also for consideration is the vacuum hoses to pair/pare? valves. Located to the right on the cowl. Met a guy that put BB’s in the hoses to ‘fix’ a drivability problem, once. Never did get to work on that one.
That right angle hose under the rubber tray(under the carbs), melts through to a leak that causes nasty drivability issues. Also a split ‘T’ in that same hose closer to the computer has been bad before.
I’m agreeing with the guys above that it is running lean during transfer from idle to main circuit with out need of an accelerator shot.
I’m wondering if a Sliding valve boot is leaking? Like it didn’t stay put during assembly.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
just a quick note, still waiting on the kit to rebuild the fuel auto shut off valve so haven't done any more work to it. I did fire it up and let it run up to normal operating temp over the weekend and I have to say it ran real good, I hooked the little vacuum line up but honestly couldn't tell any difference. so once the kit comes in and I get that repaired I'm going to do one more good run up and if it's still running smooth I will put the filter back together and do a test ride, that will tell me a lot more than it sitting in the shop. most of the troubles start once you load it from driving
 
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AJ1500, If you want to run the bike without the air cleaner just block the 2 air hoses off with a bolt or something. I did that when rebuilding my carbs. I'm talking about the big vacuum hose on the bottom of the air box. Also a little one on the left rear. If you disconnected the vacuum line to the pet **** at the gas tank your bike should run out of gas in a very short time. That pet **** stops the gas from going to the carbs. as a safety issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
good news is the kit showed up yesterday, now if I can find time to work on the bike this weekend. have that honey-do list that is kinda long this weekend.
but I hope to get some time. Jerry,, I'm not a fan of riding without the air filter in place even if it's a test ride. the biggest reason is it wouldn't be the same as when it's all back together so I could get some false feedback from the bike. it's not that hard to remove the filter assy.
 

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I have been searching high and low and can't find a good video or a good step by step on how to sync the carbs on my 1500. I had the carbs rebuilt by a rep vendor and feel they did a great job but they could only set it up on a bench. I feel certain they are out of sync. the issue I am having is once it's warmed up it has a healthy hesitation on the low end until you get close to 3K when under a load as in taking off it wants to stall unless you crank the throttle, but once it's moving it does good, the hesitation is still there but not enough to stall the bike. it pops a little on decel but not bad
it will idle good and has strong accel when just sitting there. also it seems to run worse when to motor is cooler. this past weekend we were in the mountains and when we would drop down in the valley it would start hesitating more. I added some pre filter foam over the intake horn and it will run a little better but still hesitates at low end. I am getting a sync kit but need a good guide to go by to get it right. any help will be greatly appreciated
I have been searching high and low and can't find a good video or a good step by step on how to sync the carbs on my 1500. I had the carbs rebuilt by a rep vendor and feel they did a great job but they could only set it up on a bench. I feel certain they are out of sync. the issue I am having is once it's warmed up it has a healthy hesitation on the low end until you get close to 3K when under a load as in taking off it wants to stall unless you crank the throttle, but once it's moving it does good, the hesitation is still there but not enough to stall the bike. it pops a little on decel but not bad
it will idle good and has strong accel when just sitting there. also it seems to run worse when to motor is cooler. this past weekend we were in the mountains and when we would drop down in the valley it would start hesitating more. I added some pre filter foam over the intake horn and it will run a little better but still hesitates at low end. I am getting a sync kit but need a good guide to go by to get it right. any help will be greatly appreciated
Digital Vacuum Gauges.JPG
To precisely balance/adjust your carbs, invest in a DIGITAL carb vacuum set (see pic) , works on all carbs you can attach a vacuum hose to. I know nothing about synching 6 cyl wings, but this works great on 4 cyl, 4 carb racks:
After a clean/rebuild, & the carbs are still off the bike, I synch them as close as possible by adjusting the linkage between them all, by blowing into each carb's outlet throat (intake runners are off). The throttle plate flapper on each carb must be absolutely closed, you'll see what I mean when you blow through each carb. Adjusting one flapper too " "closed" will prevent it's neighbor from closing all the way. Synch #1 to #3, then #2 to #4, then the right bank to the left bank. Adjust until all 4 carbs are equally, barely, but positively closed...you should not be able to now blow through any of them. Install the rack, attach the Digital gauges, start & warm the bike, adjust the idle so it's around
1000 rpm (don't exceed the idle circuit rpm, the faster, secondary circuit is unadjustable) , & see where the carb ranges are...they should be close to each other already, if you cleaned & linkage-synched them properly before installing. You should then be able to get them to "suck" equally, adjust them by using only the linkage adjusting screws, NOT the idle mixture screws...these should all be turned out equal turns, & left alone! I've never had any luck trying to do the idle-drop thing with the mixture screws, using mercury sticks or analog dial gauges. Remember, the whole idea is to get all 4 carbs sucking & creating the same amount of vacuum, that's why float levels & mixture screws should all be identically set. Try to achieve the lowest vacuum sucking possible, equally, across all carbs at idle, I've been able to get the carbs to idle as low as as 700 rpm! But of course, it's happiest around 1000 rpm. These digital gauges are pricey (over $200, but, come on, it's motorcycle money!) & hard to find, saw one on Ebay once, got mine on Amazon, but don't see any there now. Keep an eye out, & become a professional carb synching mo-fo!
 

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Discussion Starter #37
so the petcock is rebuilt and I put it all back together and pretty much find myself right back where I started. it's looking more and more like I will be pulling the carbs back off
going to talk to the gentleman that rebuilt them and see what he thinks but I have tested about everything there is to test and it just keep pointing back to the carbs as many of you have been saying
I'm so so tempted to pull the carbs off my 97 and put them on it but that's just double the work. but at least I know those carbs are good
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I called and spoke with Bear @ Bears Cycle shop who built the carbs for me, I had spoke with him a few times and he offered ideas as did many of you here
after this last issue we talked and I asked if he knew anything else I could or should check, at that point he said he was going to build up another set of carbs and send them, this way I could eliminate that as a possible issue or fix the problem. I was impressed that he just offered and sent me another set of carbs without knowing for sure that was the problem. Well as it turns out the new carbs worked and now the bike is running great.
I want to thank everyone here that tried to help me with suggestions. I want to give Bear a big Thanks for 1 for having a mail in carb rebuild service, and for standing behind his work and being a straight stand up guy by taking care of his customers. I for 1 would use his services again if I were to need them and will recommend him to others
 

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I have followed Bear on Facebook where he gets a lot of his work referrals.
the number of Satisfied Customer from all over the World is just Mind Boggling.

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