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Hi,


First I want to say that I am new to this board, and at goldwings. I got a VERY GOOD deal on this bike, however,I bought it AS IS, it was assumed that it ran, but bought from an estate and it has been in storage for the last 14 someodd years. I have had smaller Honda's before ( 750.s, mostly, late 70' models) but this thing is a different breed altogether Ok, enough ofthe introductions, now to the questions, and currently I do have a couple of them, so please bare with me.

Ok, the first one should be easy for someone that knows about GL's.

When I bought this bike I was told that there was rust in the gas tank, I had NOT tried to start it for fear of clogging up the carbs. So, I took off the seat, and the back stowaway compartment and what I found out was JUST THE GAS TANK COVER, kind of crafty that it is shaped like a gas tank, but is only a cover. So, I see that there is this big black gastank that is wedged into the frame. My question is, how do I remove this gastank to put some BB's in, and get the rust out, and put a chemical tank liner in. I see no bolts, do not own a Honda repair manual and any and all help would be appreciated.

Question number 2

Ok, so I took off the gas tank cover

And I noticed that there was a old pillowcase folded into a square covering up an orfice, I gently peeled back the pillowcase and I see what I assume to be an air duct, or an air cleaner duct ( It is rectangle in shape, and has 4 bolt holes in it. I don't know if I am missing a part, and if so, what part it is that bolts up to it ( air clener unit, etc.) So, if someone could tell me what it is, what it is called, and I will look on EBAY or if someone has an extra one lying around I would be glad to paypal u some cash for it. Sorry that I do not know much of the techie jargon about this bike, as I said, I am a newbie. If my questions are unclear and you need me to discuss further please post that in a reply and I can shoot a couple of pics of what I am talking about and post a link where you can see for yourself. I hope someone out here can help me, I am thinking about eventually taking this bike to the Honda shop to have the carbs synched, etc. But I would like to take care of the gas tank issue and that mystery part and any other small gremlins on my own before the Honda shop tries to get hundreds of dollars outta me for factory parts Thank you and I will be reading this forum daily to keep up with any and all answers that are sent my way. If explaining the removal procedure is too difficult, lemee know if you have a page out of a tech man that u can scan and shoot to me and I will give you my e-mail addy.


Dominic
 

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Hey Dom, you can get a Honda Goldwing manual at a Honda shop or go to www.clymer.com to see about how much for one. They do a pretty good job on navigating you around the bike and yes they show how to get that DANG tank out of that frame. Good Luck and god speed.
 

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domsob1974 wrote:
When I bought this bike I was told that there was rust in the gas tank, I had NOT tried to start it for fear of clogging up the carbs.

My question is, how do I remove this gastank to put some BB's in, and get the rust out, and put a chemical tank liner in.

Dominic
Be sure the tank is badly rusted before going to that trouble. Remove the fuel pickup and have a look inside with flashlight. The fuel pickup is not as in an older cycle, its not gravity feed so the rust pickup isnt so bad, but it can wreck a fuel pump (if I remember the pickup correctly.)

Last time I did this job, I removed the pickup and used another electric pump and filter to vacuum the tank out.

Someone here advised the tanks come out after the swingarm is removed but Ive not done it and that was on a 1200.
 

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Ok,



I opened up the gas tank filler and put my finger inside and rubbed the wall with my fingertip, it feels VERY rough and my finger was instantly coated in what looked like Hot cocoa mix :)) So I am guessing that is rust. I was wondering, though. I notice that Kreem has a tank prep chemical kit that is a 2 part process, one is the cleaner and the other is the conditioner. I was wondering if I took the fuel pump, etc out and let the cleaner ( or a cleaner that someone else might know of that works better ( a rust eating cleaner) sit in there ( filling the tank to the top, and letting sit, perhaps overnight to really ea the stuff away) if it would remove enough of an amount of rust that it would be safe to try and start this beast. I really don't want to go through the headache of taking th tank out unless I have to, and if this sounds feasible i am up for it, maybe after flushing i could install a fuel filter to catch any stubborn particles before they make their way into troublesome crevices. And to answer my own question, I found that there is an air cleaner housing that is suppsoed to be mounted over that rectangle orfice. So I guess I am Ebay hunting... Let me know what you guys think about the cleaner idea, and give me some brand names to go by. Should I try something at an auto store, a specialty store, or does someone have an idea that worked better ( I.E. using coca-cola as a rust remover --NOTE - I am not planning on using Coke as a rust remover, nor do I actually think it would work, but I was giving someone an opening to insert a "home brew" remedy that they might have used in the past to correct matters.
 

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I have an airbox from a 1981 GL1100 that I would sell real cheap. If you can wait till I get back into town.

As for the Kreem, you don't need to take out the tank like the instructions say. Just pour the Kreem in, and pick up the bike above your head and shake vigoursly for several minutes. If you can't do this, then the tank must come out. Either that or buy 5 gallons of the stuff and fill the tank up....

Raymond
 

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The air filter box has a cover that is held on by a wing nut, sounds like that is missing on your bike.
You have to pull the rear wheel and swingarm to get the tank out. A workshop manual might be a good idea for that job. You will definitely have to pull and strip the carbs after 14 years. The petrol will have gummed up the insides of the carbs.
 

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Silicon Sam wrote:
and pick up the bike above your head and shake vigoursly for several minutes.

Raymond
HAHAHA best laugh I had all day:cheeky1:

Yep, black goop is corrosion. Might be a lot easier to fill it and wash the chemicals around with a rag on end of a drill extension. Id really hate to have to take that tank out. But good time to rebuild swingarm if you do.

Dont know if itll work, but the auto body guys use "Rust Mort" (phosphoric acid solution) to turn auto body rust black. Might work in the tank?

The trick fix would be a fuel cell bladder like the NASCARs use.
 

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OK,



Well, I have had some good suggestions ( the drill extension thingy is a good idea for agitation, and if I were He-Man I might try to shake the motorcycle over my head :)) So, what do you guys think about this ( Well, Kreem is about 15.00 a quart, and seeing on how i would need a Crapload of that to make 6 gallons, I don't know how cost effective that would be. I read on another board that this guy used CLR ( which is about 4.99 a quart) and let it sit in his tank for 24 - 48 hours. I was thinking maybe I could try using htat stuff, agitate it with the drill, try to use a wire brush to get any rust off of the inside of the neck and other areas that i can reach. Flush it thoroughly and let dry, then maybe i could use a magnet to pick up the bigger pieces or residual pieces that the flush didnt remove...... Any suggestions on if u think this is a feasible idea, or if I would be wasting my time?



As far as cleaning out he carbs, are you guys sayign that i would have to buy carb rebuild kits for the carbs, or jsut soak them in gas or what?
 

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The easiest route might be to flush the tank with a cleaner or rust remover and install a larger fuel filter. It's not likely that rust is going to get to the carbs through a filter anyway, what usually happens is the filter gets plugged up.

You might take a look at this stuff:

http://www.orisonmarketing.com/corrosion/evaporust/evapo-rust.html

I haven't tried it but it might be a good way to go. Since it's water based it might be thin enough that you could put a gallon or less in the tank and then using a paint stirrer with an electric drill to slosh the whole interior of the tank, keep it wet with the de-ruster.One of those paint mixer rods with a couple four bladed stirrersought todo the job even if you had to cut the diameter down to fit into the thank. The one I have has thick enough blades that you could carve a bit of helical pitch to make it act like a propeller which would throw the stuff around even more. A rag around the shaft at the filler neck would keep the stuff away from the rest of the bike. After flushing and drying the tank a sloshing compound like Kreem could be used to coat the tank in the same manner.You should get enough agitation to insure that the whole inside of the tank was covered.

The best way to go of course would be to pull the tank, but chemical treatment might be worth a try if time is more important than cost.

:waving:
 

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Use electrolysis!

This is a repost from another forum:

Here's a repost of a method I used quite successfully. There's no dangerous chemicals to spill; a consideration for me since I: a) live on a lake, and b) drink from a well. There's also no ball bearings or nuts to recover afterwards. You need a 10 amp battery charger, duct tape, a box of salt, water, a funnel, a piece of steel rod, electrical tape, methyl hydrate and light oil. I adapted it from a technique used by antique outboard restorers:

Prep the tank by removing the petcock and gauge sender, clean the paint work around the holes well, and cover the holes with duct tape. Stuff rags inside the hump to re-inforce the duct tape over the sender holes.

Pre-mix the saline electrolyte using most of a box of table salt to 5 gallons of water, and fill the tank. Tape up the end of a steel rod (I was told re-bar, but used all-thread ready rod which worked just fine) so it cannot short out against the tank bottom. Connect the negative lead of a 10 amp battery charger to bare metal on the tank (I used the gas cap mounting screw so as not to damage any paint). Place a wide-mouth plastic (non-conducting) funnel in the fill hole and put the rod in the tank through the funnel. Connect the positive lead to the electrode. It's best to use a charger with an ammeter. Mine just has a silly voltmeter gauge, so I connected the positive lead through a separate ammeter. Add salt as required to bring the current up to 10 amps. (The best I got was 9.4 amps, more salt didn't help after that). Check every 2 minutes, and stop when the rust is gone. (It got so murky, I couldn't see the hump after a while unless I sloshed out some of the water and tipped the tank. I don't know how they do this with a marine tank and
still check it ;-)

Total time for me on this tank was about 10 minutes.

I was amazed at the results. Where there was heavy rusting, clean shiny metal magically appeared. I used a piece of
cad-plated ready-rod for the electrode, and it turned black. The saline turned a weird shade of green, with chunks of rust
floating around. I was concerned that the left half of the tank wouldn't get equal treatment, and I made a point of draining off some water and sloshing it around to evenly distribute the salt, and an examination through the fuel gauge hole confirms it worked on that side too. None the less, I think next time I would start off with a saline solution instead of plain water, now that I know how much salt to use (just about 1 box to get 9.4 amps). I also blew a fuse in my ammeter when I inadvertently touched the rod against the hump in the middle of the tank trying to stir the salt with the electrode. I guess with a motorcycle tank, not only the bottom of the rod should be insulated with electrical tape, but part way up where it might contact the hump as well.

I flushed everything out thoroughly with water after, followed with methyl hydrate. Even so, I could see a faint patina of rust
starting to form again within 15 minutes. I quickly coated the inside with oil, and that took care of that.


Phil's note:

After treating the tank in this manner, run a strong rinse of phosphoric acid through the tank. It causes a reaction with the inside of the tank to create zinc phosphate, which is inert, andwill notrust. The wonderful thing about the electrolasys method is that it can be done with the tank in the bike, you would just need to get some sort of pump or siphonto drain out the water.
 

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One note, don't use anything but steel electrodes. Other electrodes can create some toxic metals, and other bad effects. Also, remember that this process will produce large amounts of HYDROGEN and OXYGEN gas. Make sure to vent it well, and avoid all sources of ignition.
 

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One more thing.

Once you have clean metal, if you want to have some real fun, you can grab a zinc electrode (go to a boating supply store) reverse the polarity, add in some new electrolyte, and you can electro-plate the inside of your tank with zinc.
 

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domsob1974 wrote:
I got a VERY GOOD deal on this bike, however,I bought it AS IS, it was assumed that it ran, but bought from an estate and it has been in storage for the last 14 someodd years.


When I bought this bike I was told that there was rust in the gas tank, I had NOT tried to start it for fear of clogging up the carbs. So, I took off the seat, and the back stowaway compartment and what I found out was JUST THE GAS TANK COVER, kind of crafty that it is shaped like a gas tank, but is only a cover. So, I see that there is this big black gastank that is wedged into the frame. My question is, how do I remove this gastank to put some BB's in, and get the rust out, and put a chemical tank liner in. I see no bolts, do not own a Honda repair manual and any and all help would be appreciated.

Question number 2

Ok, so I took off the gas tank cover

And I noticed that there was a old pillowcase folded into a square covering up an orfice, I gently peeled back the pillowcase and I see what I assume to be an air duct, or an air cleaner duct ( It is rectangle in shape, and has 4 bolt holes in it. I don't know if I am missing a part, and if so, what part it is that bolts up to it ( air clener unit, etc.) So, if someone could tell me what it is, what it is called, and I will look on EBAY or if someone has an extra one lying around I would be glad to paypal u some cash for it. Sorry that I do not know much of the techie jargon about this bike, as I said, I am a newbie. If my questions are unclear and you need me to discuss further please post that in a reply and I can shoot a couple of pics of what I am talking about and post a link where you can see for yourself. I hope someone out here can help me, I am thinking about eventually taking this bike to the Honda shop to have the carbs synched, etc. But I would like to take care of the gas tank issue and that mystery part and any other small gremlins on my own before the Honda shop tries to get hundreds of dollars outta me for factory parts Thank you and I will be reading this forum daily to keep up with any and all answers that are sent my way. If explaining the removal procedure is too difficult, lemee know if you have a page out of a tech man that u can scan and shoot to me and I will give you my e-mail addy.


Dominic, it sounds like the intake pillow case problem has been answered above..

On your fuel system problem?-- There are all kinds of partial remedies that could be tried without pulling that fuel tank out but I can tell you from experience that nothing short of removing that tank (a lot of work) will make you happy or a reliable bike.. Problem is: without pulling that tank you won't get the chemicals or electrolysis into the top corners or even get a decent tank liner coating applied to the tank, especiallyto the top part..

I restore old tractors & antique enginesfor a hobby & deal with fuel tank varnish & rust on a regular basis.. The first thing you need to do (at least to do the job correctly & so it won't cause you a reliability problem in the future) is to pull the fuel tank,, then use a M.E.K or alcohol solution to remove any old fuel residue & varnish in the seams & corners that is covering that rust,,, then, if the rust is thick, or large chunks & flakes, fill the tank with a couple of quarts Phosphoric acid or other commercial rust killer,, then, shake the heck out of the tank for a while,, or my favorite is toalso add some sharp smallstones then strap the tank to the rear wheel of my 4-wheeler,or car with the rear wheel jacked up & allow the engine & real wheel to slowly spin the tank for a few hours..

After the heavy rust & scale is broken free rinse the tank out with fresh HOT water & air dry with air blow gun.. Then another internal rinse with M.E.K & through drying again.. (it MUST be clean inside)

Once the tank is dry & fairly rust free inside (the bigrust should begone & the smaller areas converted due to the Phosphoric acid treatment (Phosphoric acid will kill the rust in the metal pores & turnany surface rust remaining into aZinc phosphate coating) you will then need to coat the inside of the tank with a fuel proof sealer to seal any pin holes that show up (a good chance) & also seal the tank metal so no future rust appears or breaks free & clogs your fuel system.. I have used the Kreem product before but have been less than happy with it's long term performance.. My favorite tank coating product is called Red Kote (usually available from most large auto parts stores).. One quart will easily coat your entire fuel tank & still have plenty left over.. That Red Kote is impervious to all fuel additives except M.E.K so will hold up well to the fuel additives in modern automotive fuels.. It also doesn't come loose in large sheets & plug your fuel system if not applied to a perfectly clean & dry surface like the Kreem does..

To do the job correctly so the fuel system is reliable & not going to cause you a future "walk home" you will need to spend a fair amount of money on Phosphoric acid, M.E.K, & Red Kote so buying a good condition used tank would probably be cheaper in the long run (I checked E-Bay & currently no 1100 tanks in sight but they do come up from time to time)..

As mentioned above Electrolysis (using a battery charger & electrodes) does work pretty good on rusty metal & I have an electrolysis tub set up in the rear of my shop for de-rusting large engine antique tractor parts but I have had less than great results using that method for cleaning the insides of fuel tanks due to gas bubbles forming inside the tank & not doing a good job in the seams & folds of the corners. (it is relatively cheap & does work though)..

If you have all that rust in the fuel tank your fuel pump & carbs are probably in pretty bad shape also so you will probably need to address those areas also before it will start & run..

Rusty fuel systems are a pain in the butt & not easy to remedy without a lot of work but if done correctly can be made to become reliable & not cause any future problems..



JDC
 

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Well,



Thanks for the electrolisis (sp?) idea, I think that I am going to try it this weekend. Maybe if I do it more than once I will have a better chance of getting the majority of it out. I don't have to worry about the "hump" in the tank, I don't think, as this tank is just a big open space. I will however remove any and all hardware that could be damaged and maybe do it twice before I try to "zinc line" the tunk. This sounds exactly what I need.



next Question.....



This bike hasn't ran in forever and a day, so I know that on an old Mustang that I bought I was able to use an extension off of a ratchet ( cutting off the female part) and inserting it into the oil pump to get the oil flowing. After doing an oil change, do you guys think it would "hurt" to remove the sparkplugs and pour a little bit of oil down each cylinder to lube things up, and what kind of oil should i be putting in this beast. Someone mentioned that the carbs would have to be cleaned, that they might be gummed up from years of sitting around. By cleaning, does that mean simply soaking in gas, or going through the headache of rebuilding the carbs ( I hate tiny pieces) :p Advice anyone? Keep in mind that this beast has not been started in a good 10 years at the least ( but is in excellent cosmetic shape for an 80 and only has 3k on it) ... Maybe someone can type out a check list of do's and don'ts?



Thanks,



So far you guys Rock:clapper::waving:
 

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Dominic, even if you successfully eradicate all the internal rust on that fuel tank with electrolysis you will have a difficult if not impossible time coating the inside of that tank with a sealer if you don't remove it first.. For a fuel tank sealer/liner to work properly the tank must be rolled all around (even upside down) to evenly coat the tank inside with the coating,, then the excess drained off to prevent puddling in the low spots..

If that tank is de-rusted & not coated internally you will not be a happy biker down the road a ways as the rust will just reappear due to the oxygen & alcohol in the gasoline..

Another distinct possibility is: pin holes appearing in the tank metal due to perforation rust through (I see that in a lot in old engine tanks that have rust in them).. That will mean coating the tank insides with a sealer is a must & like mentioned above the tank will probably have to come out for that to work properly..

This bike hasn't ran in forever and a day, so I know that on an old Mustang that I bought I was able to use an extension off of a ratchet ( cutting off the female part) and inserting it into the oil pump to get the oil flowing. After doing an oil change, do you guys think it would "hurt" to remove the sparkplugs and pour a little bit of oil down each cylinder to lube things up, and what kind of oil should i be putting in this beast. Someone mentioned that the carbs would have to be cleaned, that they might be gummed up from years of sitting around. By cleaning, does that mean simply soaking in gas, or going through the headache of rebuilding the carbs ( I hate tiny pieces) :p Advice anyone? Keep in mind that this beast has not been started in a good 10 years at the least ( but is in excellent cosmetic shape for an 80 and only has 3k on it) ... Maybe someone can type out a check list of do's and don'ts?
You will probably have to remove the carbs & completely disassemble them &manually clean ALL the internal passages & replace the internalrubber parts..



JDC
 

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domsob1974 wrote:
next Question.....



... use an extension off of a ratchet... to get the oil flowing.
remove the sparkplugs and pour a little bit of oil down each cylinder to lube things up, and what kind of oil should i be putting in this beast.
Someone mentioned that the carbs would have to be cleaned, that they might be gummed up from years of sitting around. By cleaning, does that mean simply soaking in gas, or going through the headache of rebuilding the carbs ( I hate tiny pieces) :p Advice anyone?


So far you guys Rock:clapper::waving:
1.)Prime the oil system by removing the spark plugs, ignition fuse then cranking the starter til the oil light goes out. Only takes a few seconds. No way to get at the pump drive.

Use the oil that the manufacturer specifies. 10W30 winter (0 - 50F) and 10W40 above that. NEVER use 20W 50, the main bearing clearances are way tighter than a car and the bearings will starve for oil on startup. Yeah I know several use it, theyll regret it later. Its damage you cant see till its too late. The factory main bearing clearance on the 1200 is 0.008" compared to the typical 0.0015 on a car engine, thats about 1/2 the clearance. No way to shove cold 20W50 through a gap that thin.

Take carbs off and clean them with solvent (carb cleaner spray / paint thinner with toluene/acetone) Time to rebuild them. They arent that hard and the problems that bad floats cause make it impossible to tune the engine.
 

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Dave wrote:
The factory main bearing clearance on the 1200 is 0.008" compared to the typical 0.0015 on a car engine, thats about 1/2 the clearance.


Dave, not sure how you figured that 8 thousandths is half the clearance of 15 ten-thousandths (one & a half thousandths)but you might reconsider your math.. I show .0015" is .0065" smaller than .008"


JDC
 

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Well,



I understand that a tank liner would be a way to go, but i was under the impression that if I use a large enough zinc electrode during electrolysisthat the zinc would coat the inside of the tank making it somewhat rust resistant. As far as priming the oil pump is concerned....I can see how that would prime the tank but I am worried about if the rings are metal in the cylinders and the initial cranking of the engine could possibly damage a ring if the motor is seized. That is why I was wondering if putting a penetrating oil or motor oil down the spark Plug holes prior to an oil change to lube up the cylinder walls would be a good idea..



Let me know what u guys think, sorry I have a million and one questions.... I would rather ask them now than to have my head in my hands later :)
 

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JDC wrote:
Dave wrote:
The factory main bearing clearance on the 1200 is 0.008" compared to the typical 0.0015 on a car engine, thats about 1/2 the clearance.
Dave, not sure how you figured that 8 thousandths is half the clearance of 15 ten-thousandths (one & a half thousandths)but you might reconsider your math.. I show .0015" is .0065" smaller than .008"

JDC
I think he made a typo, meant .0008"
 

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domsob1974 wrote:
That is why I was wondering if putting a penetrating oil or motor oil down the spark Plug holes prior to an oil change to lube up the cylinder walls would be a good idea..
A little oil spritzed in the cylinders wouldn't hurt at all.
 
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