Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
imported post

Hello all,

I am new to this forum (1st post). I have been using the advice for a couple of months (THANKS!!)

On to my problem:

I acquired a 1980 gl1100 that was in storage for about 5 years (all the body was removed). I assembled the body and ordered new timing belts, battery,carb kits, and starter rebuild kit. I installed the timing belts, turned the motor by hand to check for clearance, cleaned and rebuilts the carbs. I flushed the engine oil, changed the filter, installed the battery and fired her up.

Shestarted fine but idle is not possible, she sounds good if I hold the throttle at about 3500 rpm, below that she starts to sputter and backfires though carbs and exhaust. I ordered and installed air cut off valves. Exact same results.

I have:

Checked and rechecked the timing belt position (not exact but as close as they can get with the teeth to the marks lining up). I have done the starter fluidtest to check for leaks, changed the plugs, checked and rechecked and rechecked and rechecked the floats, checked and rechecked the accelerator pump. The fuel pump is at 4-6 psi, compression is 150 +/- 5 per cylinder. Spark is within clymer's manuals specs.

This is my first wing I have rebuilt 20 magna's carbs and all and never had this trouble.

I am at a loss........ any help would be greatly appreciated

:headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,491 Posts
imported post

R_Heath wrote:
Hello all,

I am new to this forum (1st post). I have been using the advice for a couple of months (THANKS!!)

On to my problem:

I acquired a 1980 gl1100 that was in storage for about 5 years (all the body was removed). I assembled the body and ordered new timing belts, battery,carb kits, and starter rebuild kit. I installed the timing belts, turned the motor by hand to check for clearance, cleaned and rebuilts the carbs. I flushed the engine oil, changed the filter, installed the battery and fired her up.

Shestarted fine but idle is not possible, she sounds good if I hold the throttle at about 3500 rpm, below that she starts to sputter and backfires though carbs and exhaust. I ordered and installed air cut off valves. Exact same results.

I have:

Checked and rechecked the timing belt position (not exact but as close as they can get with the teeth to the marks lining up). I have done the starter fluidtest to check for leaks, changed the plugs, checked and rechecked and rechecked and rechecked the floats, checked and rechecked the accelerator pump. The fuel pump is at 4-6 psi, compression is 150 +/- 5 per cylinder. Spark is within clymer's manuals specs.

This is my first wing I have rebuilt 20 magna's carbs and all and never had this trouble.

I am at a loss........ any help would be greatly appreciated
R_Heath, your problem has all the ear marks of plugged pilot jet fuel channels.. When those carbs sit for extended periods with old fuel in them the very small pilot jet circuits plug up & just blowing carb cleaner & compressed air through them won't get the crud out in a lot of cases. Maybe need to try small (soft) wires through the pilot passages. Another thing to (possibly) look for is the slight chance you reversed the main & pilot jets.. Not sure if your carbs are subject to that but some of those early carbs would allow the jets to be installed incorrectly & that will make them run but very poorly..

Twisty
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
imported post

Thanks twisty,

The rebuild kits came with the slow jet needles but from what I have read and according to the manual you can't change them. I will remove them right now and do the wire.

The cams being off about 1/8th inch any effect?

I wish I hadn't done both prior to trying to start between each procedure. Then I would be more confident about it not being one or the other.

I will post again in a few with the wire results
 

·
GERIATRIC MEMBER
Joined
·
57,413 Posts
imported post

R_Heath wrote:
Hello all,

I am new to this forum (1st post). I have been using the advice for a couple of months (THANKS!!)
Hey R_Heath :waving:Welcome to the best Goldwing Forum on the net. :clapper:

:leprechaun::18red::leprechaun:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
imported post

Thanks for the welcome Redwing..... I think I have already used a ton of your advice........ :D



Update:

Removed carbs, tested the slow jets before running a wire (paper clip)into them; found that 2, 3, and 4 would not let the cleaner flow through but 1 would. I inserted a paper clipinto them all flushed with cleaner and100 psi. HOWEVER, carb 2 :( just holds the cleaner and I cannotget it unclogged. I tried all sorts of wire and paper clips from the air cut off valve inlet and the slow jet inlet and it holds whatever fluid I put in it.

Would have been nice to be able to take the slow jets out and replace them. Especially since I have the replacements in hand.

ANY IDEAS?

Thanks in advance,
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,048 Posts
imported post

Hi R_Heath and welcome to the forum. The hole in the center of the low speed jets is not large enough for a paper clip to pass through. Take a six inch piece of stranded 14 ga copper electrical wire and pull out one strand. This will pass through the hole and clean out the varnish if it has been softened enough by the carb cleaner. Let us know how you come out.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
imported post

Thanks Jack,

I realized about the paper clip when I examined the new slow jets and pulled a strand out of a 16ga multi strand. I redid the 1, 3, and 4 carb but the #2 is still clogged I can't get the copper through it. I even took a drill bit :(the same size as thehole in the new jet (small enough to allow pass through) and it wouldn't even budge. I think I am at the point of needing to know how to get the jet out or a new #2 carb :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger:

The new jet does have threads and a slot to remove/install with a flat head. The one currently in just has the hole. Would be nice to know if it was pressed in or is indeed screwed in some how.

Anyone have any more ideas?

Thanks in advance,
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,491 Posts
imported post

R_Heath wrote:
Update:

Removed carbs, tested the slow jets before running a wire (paper clip)into them; found that 2, 3, and 4 would not let the cleaner flow through but 1 would. I inserted a paper clipinto them all flushed with cleaner and100 psi. HOWEVER, carb 2 :( just holds the cleaner and I cannotget it unclogged. I tried all sorts of wire and paper clips from the air cut off valve inlet and the slow jet inlet and it holds whatever fluid I put in it.

Would have been nice to be able to take the slow jets out and replace them. Especially since I have the replacements in hand.

ANY IDEAS?
R_Heath, I usually use a piece of copper wire pulled from a 12 or 16 gauge stranded wire. DON'T USE THAT DRILL BIT as scratches or swirls in the jets will alter their flow rate. I have had some luck on those Keihins that have passages plugged with varnish from old fuel by placing the carb body (pull ALL rubber & floats) in boiling hot water, keep turning it for a few minutes in each direction,, then hit the passages with compressed air & a small soft wire. In real stubborn cases & IF you have a straight shot into the passages you might try a very small guitar string as those are quite stiff for their size..

On pulling those jets out? I haven't ever tried on the Honda 1100 carbs but on other Keihins with round non slotted jets- those were pressed in & I ran a tap into the recessed outer counter sunk area then screwed in a machine screw welded to a nut that would fit a small slide hammer (caution: don'trun the tapin to hit the smaller area where the actual jet restriction is.

Twisty
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11 Posts
imported post

hey there fellow fuel problem

I did have the same problem with the low jet and I used a 2in. long dry wall screw and started into the top of that jet got it out and cleaned but I am haveing a rich running problem now don't know if that caused it or if my floats just are not right

the jets are pressed in
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
imported post

Anyone have a #2 carb body???? :(:(:(

Well, I am afraid to try to get the jet out and whatever is in there has decided that cleaner, wd40, acetone, gumout,boiling water, and some other materials I won't listis not going to get it out.

Just to thank twisty, I did reassemble and put the carbs back on and walla it will idle without my hand on the throttle :D but, I can tell #2 is dragging on it.

So, I guess my first problem is figured out, now to find a replacement without having to hock the wing to get it. Thanks to all for the warm reception and valuable input.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,048 Posts
imported post

Good morning R_Heath, I see the good news is the wing will idle for the most part. I don't know if you have tried Berryman's B12 carb cleaner on it, this is pretty potent stuff. Before you spring for replacement carbs and the possibility of other problems with them, try soaking the troublesome carb in Berrymans for 24 to 36 hours. That stuff will remove paint so it should be able to at least soften the varnish enough to run a copper wire strand through it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,191 Posts
imported post

  Guitar string  is quite stiff , and stronger than Copper wire...  a more convenient fix..if you don't know any musicans.... and they are a pretty flighty bunch/forums/images/emoticons/emoticonsxtra/bat.gif ... lol.... go to your nearest windshield glass replacement dealer ... they use a very very fine, very strong steel wire... which I am sure they would give you a foot of for almost nothing/forums/images/emoticons/big_grin.gif... this wire is used by them to clear out the clogs in the fluid jets on  a car windshield washer ./forums/images/emoticons/shock.gif.  .... I cut mine into 2 " bits, glued each into a cork , and I still have  4 of them left  5 years later .. for clearing small holes... Use it gently, but firmly ,     after soaking in carb cleaner ... it is steel, and may scratch the brass jet ..... SilverDave /forums/images/emoticons/emoticonsxtra/cooldj.gif
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
imported post

I wish I had some of the virtue known as patience!!!!!! After letting a 'buddy' :bash: take#2 to his 'bench' I now have a mess!! :gunhead:

I guess it is off to ebay in search of the #2

Thanks again,
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
imported post

Jackjohn is right about "Berrymans B 12" cleaner, it's strong stuff and have used it on cars that would not idle and ran rough and it straightened them right out after spraying it in the carb and running it through the tank!:clapper:

Have never used it on a bike?!
 

·
Postpubescent member
Joined
·
36,382 Posts
imported post

R_Heath wrote:
The cams being off about 1/8th inch any effect?
It's not unusual for the new belts to end up a half tooth or so different than the old ones. You did the right thing in hand turning the engine, even when I KNOW I've replaced timing belts exactly the same as they were, I turn the engine over by hand to make sure things are okay. It takes two full turns of the crankshaft to get the cams through their full cycle.

I don't think I'll comment on friends 'helping'. Unless I know someone's an expert I'd rather foul up my stuff myself and maintain the friendship! It's better to get advice from a friend and then wait until they leave before deciding whether to use it or not.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
imported post

Thanks exavid, I turned it over a few times before even thinking about the starter. But I wish I had posted on here about the idle problem weeks ago. Could have been on the road by now.


I agree now about the friends.

I guess if coulda, shoulda, and woulda were best friends I would be paid and la...... well you know the rest.

I am trying to locate a #2 before springing for the whole carb rack :(. Noone wants to split a rack it seems.

Thanks again,
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4 Posts
imported post

Just picked up a set from a salvage yard thinking I had to replace my whole rack. I would be willing to part with any of them now that I don't need them, send me an e-mail at [email protected] if you are interested.

Jury
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
230 Posts
imported post

R_Heath wrote:
Hello all,

I am new to this forum (1st post). I have been using the advice for a couple of months (THANKS!!)

On to my problem:

I acquired a 1980 gl1100 that was in storage for about 5 years (all the body was removed). I assembled the body and ordered new timing belts, battery,carb kits, and starter rebuild kit. I installed the timing belts, turned the motor by hand to check for clearance, cleaned and rebuilts the carbs. I flushed the engine oil, changed the filter, installed the battery and fired her up.

Shestarted fine but idle is not possible, she sounds good if I hold the throttle at about 3500 rpm, below that she starts to sputter and backfires though carbs and exhaust. I ordered and installed air cut off valves. Exact same results.

I have:

Checked and rechecked the timing belt position (not exact but as close as they can get with the teeth to the marks lining up). I have done the starter fluidtest to check for leaks, changed the plugs, checked and rechecked and rechecked and rechecked the floats, checked and rechecked the accelerator pump. The fuel pump is at 4-6 psi, compression is 150 +/- 5 per cylinder. Spark is within clymer's manuals specs.

This is my first wing I have rebuilt 20 magna's carbs and all and never had this trouble.

I am at a loss........ any help would be greatly appreciated

:headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger:


First, WELCOME!!!:byebye:

With everything I've read so far in this string, I haven't seen anything about syncing the carbs..... Did you re-syncronize the carbs after rebuild???? Poor sync can cause this type of idle problem!


Good luck!

Frenchy
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
imported post

Hey Frenchy, thanks for the welcome.

I thought about sync'ing the carbs too, but I can't get it to run long enough. I figured, even way out of sync it would at least idle.:baffled: It runs great withthrottle, although pops coming back down. After I did clean the 3slow jets it will idle now (choppy) I think with another #2 and a sync she will probably purrrrrrrrrrrr.



Thanks again,
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
82 Posts
imported post

Hi R_Heath

I had the same problem with 2 of the carbs on my 81 Wing. I found that it wasn't actually the idle speed jet that was stopped up, but the small passage under the jet. Mine too would hold any fluid put into the jet opening. The way I eventually got mine cleared was to take Berrymans parts cleaner, the one that comes in the gallon can, and fill the jet and let it set overnight. After this I used a product called BG Intake Air Cleaner. Although it can't be purchased at a parts house, a lot of car dealerships use BG products and will sell you a couple of cans. It comes in a spray can with a straw. Use the straw inserted into the jet and you can also insert the straw into a passage that comes from the air cutoff valve area in the body. This cleans the blockage from the back side. It took a couple of afternoons of repeatedly doing this to get it to clear, but eventually it did. If you can't find BG cleaner in your area, let me know and I will gladly send you a couple of cans. It is really good stuff. I use itin the dealership I work in all the time.

Oh, by the way, welcome to the greatest Goldwing site in the universe!!!

:grinner: wilddoug :grinner:
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top