[philcsand]

imported post

I apologize in advance if these issues have been addressed before, but I searched for the informaition without much luck.

I just bought a 1984 Gl1200 Interstate with 50k on the clock knowing about a bizzare problem.

Main problem:

The bike will start and crank like a champ when it is cool, but once the engine has hit operating temp, if I shut off the engine, and try and restart it, the starter just can't turn the motor over. It makes about 2 "grunts" a second, rather than the constant spin that it normally produces. Could this be caused by a faulty ground in the starter motor? I have read an article on the net where someone says you can pull the starter motor out of the engine, while in the frame as long as you keep the bike on the sidestand. Anyone try this?

Secondary problems:

I know about the 3 pin connector problem with the stator, and the previous owner replaced it with butt-splices. I'll soon be swaping that out for solder and shrink tube. I've also found a new regulator harnes available for $25 that claims to fix various problems with the electrical system, including the radio hum. The previous owner also claims that the regulator has some burned-out diodes in it. That sounds sort of ominous to me, so it'll be replaced ASAP. I have a spare, but need to know if my readings are consistant with what a known good one reads out at.

These are the readings on the spare (unknown condition)

Positive VOM lead on green, Negative to Yellow (after stabilizing) 1: 1.09Mohm, Yellow 2: .95 Mohm, Yellow 3: 1.02 Mohm. Reversed, and all of the readings are infinite.

This tells me that the diodes are reacting correctly, but the high resistance has me puzzled. Could it be because of the SCR's that it is so high?

Anyone who can help me with this will garner my undying appreciation, and a beer on me.

 

[BRowan]

imported post

It's the starter motor gouing bad. Its very common on the GL110 and 1200. Either the end casing is worn where the starter shaft sits in it, or the casing is full of dust. When the bike gets warm the inner part of the motor swells up a bit and is probably shorting on the outer casing. Thats why it only starts when cool. You will have to remove the starter and crack it open for inspection.

 

[philcsand]

imported post

Will the following work in order to pull the starter without removing the engine?

http://wings.astcomm.net/starterearly.txt

or

http://wings.astcomm.net/starterlate.txt



Basically he is saying that you can pull the starter motor out of the '84 engine with the bike on the side-stand, and not have to worry about the cog and chain wandering away. Any of you tried that, or heard about it before?

 

[welsh winger]

imported post

Hi philcsand,

yes you can get the starter out using this method. i did it a few years back, it was a bit of a fiddle to get the starter back in, but just take your time, force is not the answer.

welsh winger

 

[AZWinger]

imported post

Philcsand,

Welcome to the forum!

I just removed mine this way a couple of months ago. Had no problems with it. I removed my starter because I was having the same symptoms you described, cleaned the stator, armature, inside of the housing, and replaced the brushes. Like having a brand new starter! Bike fires right up now with no starter drag at all.

If you search back a little ways you should find the posts I made with some pics of the starter disassembled and some info on how I did it.

Hope it helps!

Bob

 

[philcsand]

imported post

Thank you all for the prompt replies. I love the internet!

Once this deluge ceases in the Pacific northwest, I'll pull the wing out, and snap some pictures of her. All the previous owners took really good care of her, and it shows.

Does anyone know about the reg/rect issue?

 

[AZWinger]

imported post

I should have added that my wing is an 83 1100. I thinkthe starter is the same as your 84 1200 but not positive.

I don't know about the regulator. When I get home I can look in the service manual to see what it is supposed to ohm out at but once again it's for the 1100.

Bob

 

[Goldwinger1984]

imported post

83 and 84 both use the same starter, 85 1200 and up is larger.

I have taken the starter out of my 84 while it was on the center stand(not the side stand)and had no problems whatsoever getting it back in while on the centerstand.

If you're handy with a few tools you can repair the starter yourself. All you need is a drive end bushing, a set of brushes and some good quality lubricant. Once you get the starter apart it's fairly easy to determine what's wrong with it. Usually it's the drive end bushing that wears out causing the armature to short to ground, but, some guys find a bad ground on the brush plate.

Vic

 

[AZWinger]

imported post

Philcsand,

The manual states:

REVERSE DIRECTION OVER 6000 OHMS;

YELLOW (three checks)TO GREEN

(RED/WHITE TO YELLOW (three checks)

NORMAL DIRECTION 5-40 OHMS;

GREEN TO YELLOW (three checks)

YELLOW (three checks) TO RED/WHITE

I hope this helps!

 

[exavid]

imported post

Philcsand, sure was a fine winter day here today, record warm temps, just south of Tacoma where I live it was 63F. Had a nice ride on the Green Machine!

Here's some info I found on the net, might be of some use.

The following article submitted by Chris Olson on March 21, 1999
Subject: Charging System Diagnosis Procedures
Most charging system problems can be diagnosed by the average owner if you have access to a multimeter and an ammeter. The ammeter should have a scale of 0-5 amps and the multimeter set to the 0- 20 VDC (or similar) scale. Connect the multimeter across the terminals of the battery. Disconnect the positive lead on the battery and reconnect it through the ammeter. With a warmed up engine running at 3000 RPM, headlight on high beam, fan motor off, and a fully charged battery, the multimeter should indicate 14.5 volts and the ammeter should show 3 amps.
Stator testing:
Disconnect the alternator main lead at the block connector. With the multimeter set to measure resistance (ohms) check the continuity between all three of the yellow leads coming from the stator. If there is a lack of continuity between any two of the leads - the stator has an open coil and must be replaced. Also check the continuity between each yellow lead and ground. If continuity exists on any of the leads to ground the stator has a shorted coil and must be replaced. The engine must be removed from the frame to facilitate removal of the rear engine cover to gain access to the stator.
Regulator/Rectifier testing:
With a warmed up engine operating as outlined in the first test, increase engine speed to 5000 RPM. The voltage should never increase above 15 VDC. If it does, the regulator is malfunctioning. Trace the leads from the finned rectifier unit to the 8-pin connector and separate the connector. Check the resistance between the green and each of the 3 yellow leads. In the normal direction of current flow the diodes tested in this manner should offer little resistance, the precise figure being 5-40 ohms. If the test probes are reversed, a very high resistance reading should be obtained (approx 6K ohms). Repeat the same test between the red/white lead and each yellow lead in turn to check the negative diode trio in the rectifier unit. The same readings should be obtained. If any of these six tests show readings not as outlined here, the rectifier is defective and must be replaced. The regulator/rectifier is a combined unit and for all practical purposes is unserviceable.

 

[philcsand]

imported post

Tacoma... That's not too far from me!

Anyhow, thought I'd give you all some updates.

I dug into the electrics tonight, and looked at the dreaded stator wires and charging system. At idle, and all other engine speeds, the voltage was about 14.8VDC, which makes me happy, and there was no measurable AC in the system, so the diode bridge must be working right. YIPPEE!!:cheeky1:

The previous owner had put in bullet connectors on the three stator wires, and as I grabbed them with the bike running, I noticed they were nice and hot. :shock:Soldered them together, and now there's no more heat problem. YIPPEE #2!

Did some searching online, and I found new starter motors for $200 + core charge of $30, and rebuild kits with bushings, brushes, and bearings for $80. So, first up is a new starter motor, and I'll send them my spare starter for the core (shorted comutator, not rebuildable) and then I'll buy the rebuild kit to fix up the one on the bike right now. That way I'll have a working spare, and the one on the bike.



Thank you all for your help thus far, and I will keep you posted on the progress.

 

[AZWinger]

imported post

philcsand,

Good job! Sounds like you're getting it all sorted out. That must be a relief finding out your charging system is ok. I know before I rebuilt my starter and fixed my problem, I was really sweating the thought of having to pull the motor and replace the alt. Sounds like a lot of work and expensive too.

Bob

 

[philcsand]

imported post

Oh, I also found a guy who will re-wind stators for $150, and use wire that will not be eaten away by the sulfuric acid in the engine oil. When the time comes, that'll be my route, and hopefully that will make the problem go totally away.

 

[exavid]

imported post

Philcsand,

That sounds like a better solution than some of the guys on the GWRRA's forum, seems like some of them are going the auto alternator route. I really don't think much of those installations, no matter how you do it, it creates a greater load on parts that weren't designed for it. So far my stator has been operating fine for 19 years, if it goes I'll get another or better yet have it rewound.

:clapper::clapper::clapper:

 

[Goldwinger1984]

imported post

The nice thing about the auto alternator on my Wing is that I can have up to50 amps(600watts)of current available to run any accessories I want and never have to worry about killing the baterry. The very best part is that if it fails on the road I can rebuild the alternator myself and have the bike back on the road again in half an hour while only having spent (typically) $20. USD on rebuild parts. Try doing that with a stock Honda alternator. Also, since it's driven directly off the crankshaft, it lessens the load on the primary drive chain inside the engine.

Vic

 

[RedWinger]

imported post

 

[philcsand]

imported post

You know, I could fly you up here, put you in a hotel for a night, have you do the work on my bike, and then fly you back home, all for less than what the dealership would charge just to drop the engine out...



Something sound wrong here?

 

[Shooter]

imported post

philcsand wrote:

You know, I could fly you up here, put you in a hotel for a night, have you do the work on my bike, and then fly you back home, all for less than what the dealership would charge just to drop the engine out...



Something sound wrong here?

Almost went the dealership route a couple years ago, but my wallet sense got the better of me. Dealer wanted $600. for the parts, and another $900. and seven days to install. I got(new OEM)stator and a clutchpack/and gaskets from Bike Bandit for under $350. Delivered to my door in three days, and installed them over a weekend.

I'm not begrudging anyone from making a living, I just don't want to finance their retirement... :gunhead:

 

[Goldwinger1984]

imported post

Nice thing about foregoing the stock stator and installing an external alternator is that if it fails on the road, which it rarely does, it can be removed and reinstalled in 15 minutes. I have seen a number of GL1200 owners replace the stock stator with anotheronly to find that they had to do it again the same year because the stator died. The external stator makes the very reliable GL1200 into a bike that really delivers reliability. I've been using my external stator on my 84 GL1200 with absolute reliability for almost 7 years and no problems at all and I have installed the external alternator on several other GL1200's and no problems there either.



Vic