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I picked up my first Goldwing; a tired 1984 GL 1200 A with a bad 4th gear andthe gear box sounds like it's got marbles in it:( In my questfor information and parts I found a 15K mi 86 SEI engine.

Will the 84 carbs work on the 86 SEI engine with the 84's original wiring harness? At least minimal effort like changing the Pulse Generator wiring from back to front. I read the posting about using the injection system on a non-injected engine (Mar 2005). The concern about the pulse generator being front or rear seems like a wireing modificaiton would solve the problem. Schematically they are the same thing (if Clymers is accurate) Am Iover simplifing it?

OR.....

If I get the 86 SEI engine wireing harness, computer, & fuel pump will it interfaceto the 1984's wiring with reasonable effort?

Thanks, Fred.
 

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I remember that thread. Physically the carbs will fit and also the newer engine will fit the frame. I think you might need to change the regulator as well because the SEI has a larger alternator stator. There's probably other things to consider as well, but I don't know personally how much is involved.
 

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The 84 carbs will work on the 86 SEi engine, but, you'll need to usethe 84fuel pump and filter, as well as the 84 lower coolant gooseneck and the 84 coolant crossover tube system. If you use the 86 fuel pump it will overpressure the carbs and the reason for needing the different cooling system parts is that the SEi has a cooling system heated idle air control that the carb equipped bikes do not have.

You will also need to convert the 86 ignition components to 84/85 style because the EFI engine utilizesa completely different ignition system that will not work in conjunction with the 84 parts. Basically, on the 86 engine you eliminate the cam sensors and then add the pulse generators and crankshafttiming belt drive pulleysfrom an 85 and up ignition system since the 86 only has one crank sensor and you need two of the correct value.

As gaswing stated you also need to replace the voltage regulator.

Might be easier and cheaper to rebuild/repair the 84 engine.

Vic
 

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Thanks for the information. One point of clarification, my reference to using the 86 fuel pump & computer was to keep SEI's injection system. If I use the SEI's wireing harness and computer then the pulse generator issue should go away, correct? I see from the feedback I'd need to ensure I also get some additional cooling system parts. I have toask how much of the donor bike is stillavailable.

Looking up the price and availablity of the regulator and other parts mentionedI'm leaning towards your advice of fixing the 84.

Thanks, Fred
 

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Hey fg1956 :waving:Welcome to the land of a thousand greetings and to the best Goldwing Forum on the net. :clapper:

:leprechaun: :18red: :leprechaun:
 

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fg1956 wrote:
Thanks for the information. One point of clarification, my reference to using the 86 fuel pump & computer was to keep SEI's injection system. If I use the SEI's wireing harness and computer then the pulse generator issue should go away, correct? I see from the feedback I'd need to ensure I also get some additional cooling system parts. I have toask how much of the donor bike is stillavailable.

Looking up the price and availablity of the regulator and other parts mentionedI'm leaning towards your advice of fixing the 84.

Thanks, Fred
If you're contemplating switching the the 84 over to EFI get ready for a lot of work because you'll need to swap cylinder heads so that the 84 can use the fuel injected heads which have pressure balance systems built in which the ECU needs for feedback and the right hand cylinder head has the cam sensors which also feeds the computer critical information about timing. There is a lot of related hardware on the SEi that is required to be brought over to the 84, a lot of work to end up with a bike that is very hard to find parts for.

What you might find easier and less expensive is to acquire the SEi engine at adecent priceand swap in pulse generatorsfrom the an 85 engine, then run the stock carbs on the EFI engine. You can also install the stator and rotor from the 84 into the 86 engine and retain the stock 84 regulator or you can eliminate the stock troublesome stator altogether by installing a car alternator at the front of the engine.

If you really want toend upwith a fuel injected Wingsave all the manifold, injectors, fuelpump and related hardware except for electronicsand then wait until this winter when I should have a DIY EFI system available which can be homebuilt at a very reasonable cost. Check out this site if you want more details; http://groups.msn.com/BackYardBuiltGoldwingsBarGrille/general.msnw

Vic
 

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Personally if it were me, I'd keep looking. Used engines for the carbureted 1200s are a lot more common and come up fairly often. Try the salvage yards and eBay. The SEI engine is pretty specialized and it's a shame that it wouldn't go into another LTD/SEI somewhere.
 

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I checked out the link you posted and it basically stated that 84-87's were pretty much the same except for the final drive which had been improved.

The reason part numbers would be different is that each year has its own part number sequence in case of recalls and such. Two parts can be identical yet have different part numbers and prices because the part number codesapply to different years. I've come across this hundreds of times in my many years of wrenching on bikes, cars and trucks and especially noticed this phenomenon when I managed a fleet of trucks and purchased new trucks every year. The trucks were vitually identical from one successive year to the next with maybe only a grille or chrome trim change, yet the air filter or gas filterfrom the dealer had a different part number for each particular year. In the aftermarket the various years of identical parts are all grouped as one part number.

On the 84 - 87 Wing there are distinct differences externally to differentiate the various models, but, as far as I know the internals except for the starters, stators and rear coversare all interchangable.

Sometimes as model years progress with some machines they are manufactured with cheaper quality parts as time and model yearsgo onbecause the factory has found out over extended miles that some parts can be made less durable and still be reliable, this would help the company save on manufacturing costs and increase their profits. The problem with that is the owner of later models occasionally end up with inferior or second rate left over parts because the factory is simply trying to use up what's left lying in their parts bins to get the later models out the door to make room for the newer models and in the case of the 87 GL1200, Honda knew it was dead and gone the next year with the advent of the GL1500. (There is always two sides to every story.)

Suzuki 1100's are a great example of this because the early 1100 engines were almost bullet proof because they were over engineered, but as time wore on the factory realized that it could cut quality, save some moneyand still deliver a reasonably reliable engine, but, the racers knew better and found out that the later engines were junk for racing and suddenly the early engines were in great demand.

In my humble opinion I honestly believe that no singleyear of Gold Wingis any better than any others because they all have their bright spots as well as dark spots.

To me the GoldWings are kind of like children, each one loved no matter what the age but some will be special to some folksand others willjust bedriven because it's what they've got to ride. That's life.

Vic
 

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I was looking at the internet microfiche. Dont have my bike yet, today was the day too to pick it up :( I noticed that the SEI/ltd drivetrain has some sensor that is screwed into it for the automatic air suspension. Otherwise, im assuming the drivetrain are the same.


BTW, if your parting your injection parts, i would be kindly to have first dibs on parts. :D
 

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Fred. I feel that it's too much work, also. I've done it the other way, believe me I know. Not worth it, unless you like a lot of detail work, and don't mind being down for a while. I would like to fetch an 87 engine, tho, for above stated reasons.
 

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Goldwinger1984 wrote:
Sometimes as model years progress with some machines they are manufactured with cheaper quality parts as time and model yearsgo onbecause the factory has found out over extended miles that some parts can be made less durable and still be reliable, this would help the company save on manufacturing costs and increase their profits. Vic
To me a perfect example of what Vic is saying are the cam shaft pulleys. When they went to the 1500 they became cheaply made stamped pulleys instead of the cast ones previously used.
 

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Rocky, I was thinking about what yourmechanic friendssaid about later GL1200 transmissions and couldn't understand why they would tell you that the tranny gears were a different cut. Is it possible that they meant a different ratio? I do know that early and late year GL1200's had different primary drive ratios and the 86-87 had a different top gear to decrease engine RPM on the highway. The 86 and 87 also had smaller carbs than the 84 and 85's.

I like to keep the tech info as precise as possible so think it over and let me know.

Vic
 

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a straight cut gear will be noiser and an angled cut gear is quieter.

I think this site even says the same thing in the history about the 87s having a quieter diff.

If anyone has an 87, you can pull that inspection plug out/oil fill plug, and see what the gears look like.
 

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Mr.1200 wrote:
Vic.There is no difference in the ratios of the 1200's..At least in all the 1200's I have ever worked on,And haven't seen any reference to this ratio changes in manuals??

These Mechanics have rebuilt Honda transmissions quite a bit,And having spent many hours picking there brains about different parts of the four Cly wings ,I am confident that they don't have to prove anything to me about what they actually know or do...

They got this "Different Gear Cut" informationdirectly from Honda,when they wanted to use parts from earlier 1200 gear boxes in later model 1200's,and found that the earlier gears were cut differently,more of a straight cut,than beveled (angled)

Honda told them this was an ongoing process from early to later year 1200's that they were trying to quell customer complaints of transmission noise compared to other bikes of this size..So Honda went with the different cut gears,instead of trying to install syncro's into a transmission that was being cut due to the introduction of the 1500 model...

The fact remains if you want to believe in this or not...The 87 transmissions are quieter than theearlier 1200's. My foot (smoother shifting) and my ears tell me so..And working on these 1200's for a bit now,tells me the Mechanic's were telling me what Honda told them to be true....What you or anyone else chooses to believe is up to you!

The part numbers back what they (Mechanic's/and Honda told them)said.. Honda didn't skimp on transmission parts to save a buck (other parts maybe?)..I have never heard of a service bulletin on bad transmission gears? have you???


I'm a curious sort of guy (ask those bike mechanic's how many questions I asked them) And can understand your curiosity on this (knowing how you like to tinker with four cyl wings too),So why don't you get hold of a scrapped out 84 & 87 transmission,and do a comparison on these gears,at least then your curiosity will be solved?
Rocky, I think you misunderstand my intent. It's not about being right or wrongon anybody's partit's about accurately reporting the true facts.

Steve and I are attempting to put together accurate and reliable info about Gold Wings into a tech section on this site and if everyone has different facts about exactly the same thing then there's got to be something wrong somewhere.

According to all the charts, info and manuals that I know about,early 1200's had different gear ratios than later 1200's. I have an 84 and an 85 in my garage and each have different gear ratios and that was discovered by marking the output shaft and counting revolutions and I also have charts to back up my findings.

Secondary reduction ratio on the 84 is .897/1 and on the 85 it's .973/1.

First gear ratioon the 84 is 2.643/1 and the 85 is 2.571/1.

All that I am trying to do here is to assemble some accurate and reliable facts that we can use and know to be correct without being subjective.

For instance in the Gold Wing history section on this site it states that 1986 Gold Wings have accelerator pumps yet Twisty has an 86 Wing and he states that there are no accelerator pumps on any 1200's. Has someone replaced Twisty's carbs with those from another year or is this site's information wrong?

Opinions and beliefs have their place but for reliable tech info we need to be certain about what's what.

I'll be the first to admit it when I'm wrong because I'd rather see the record straight rather than having my ego stroked. Hopefully you can see the point in this.

Or maybe I've got it wrong and maybe it's better if there is no accuracy involved and we just have fun with unreliable information, but, I see definate problems in going that route.

I don't get paid for any of this so I'm open to opinions from other members of this forum regarding wether it's worth it or not to try and assemble true and accurate facts about Gold Wings to help make this site even better and more reliable.

Vic
 
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