[bailbob]

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You hit the nail on the head it does have the vacumm driven petcock, I have taken a jar and cranked it over to see if any gas comes out and it does, but trying to spray starting fluid into the carbs through the air chamber in the air filter housing does nothing. I agree if I could get gas into the cyclender I think it would fire. BUT how do I do that????

 

[Bish]

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bailbob wrote:

You hit the nail on the head it does have the vacumm driven petcock, I have taken a jar and cranked it over to see if any gas comes out and it does, but trying to spray starting fluid into the carbs through the air chamber in the air filter housing does nothing. I agree if I could get gas into the cyclender I think it would fire. BUT how do I do that????

Spray the starting fluid straight into the carbs with the airfilter removed. If it has spark, it'll fire. If you are doing that, and sure that the gas/starting fluid is going into the air intake of the carb and nothing is happening.......then my first suspicion would be that the slides on those CV carbs are stuck closed. Only other thing would be that the intake valves aren't opening.



You should also be able to put your hand over the back of the carbs and crank and feel it sucking your hand.

 

[bailbob]

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Well I took off the cam cover and all the rocker arms are working nothing loose or damaged and each valve seems to be intack, I do not know if the slides on the carbs are working except they seemed fine on the bench each moved freely, but still no gas. I sprayed the starting fluid into the carbs and nothing, took the spark plugs out and sprayed starting fluid in there and nothing. I can hold the spark plug against the motor and I have spark but then it stops. I then try again and the same thing happens. I am unable to put my hand over the back of the carbs as the air filter housing is still intact. STUMPED!

 

[Bish]

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bailbob wrote:

Well I took off the cam cover and all the rocker arms are working nothing loose or damaged and each valve seems to be intack, I do not know if the slides on the carbs are working except they seemed fine on the bench each moved freely, but still no gas. I sprayed the starting fluid into the carbs and nothing, took the spark plugs out and sprayed starting fluid in there and nothing. I can hold the spark plug against the motor and I have spark but then it stops. I then try again and the same thing happens. I am unable to put my hand over the back of the carbs as the air filter housing is still intact. STUMPED!

If you don't have a steady spark......you need to go back and troubleshoot that.



Verify you have the correct plugs, they are fresh, the boots/wires aren't shorting.....etc.



When you hold the plug against the engine and crank it........it should have a nice bright steady spark, you should see it and hear it in time with the engine. If it's intermittant.....you need to solve that.


Also.....you need to get the airbox completely out of the way while you're trouble shooting. You need to be able to verify that the choke is functioning, the sliders are moving, the carbs are sucking (have vacumn) etc. You also need to be able to get gas/starter fluid straight into the carbs.



I guaranteedangtee you......if you've got spark, your compression numbers are right, and you spray gas straight into the back of the carb IT WILL FIRE.



You intermittent spark leads me to believe that you still have not sorted out the ignition side.

 

[bailbob]

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Shucks! I wanted to hear something better then that! BUT I know you are RIGHT I guess I was hoping for a miracle. OK time to roll up the sleeves and get at it! Thanks a bunch. You ever work on something over and over till it seems it will never work? The money I am putting into this also is getting up there but I HATE GIVING UP......

 

[Bish]

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bailbob wrote:

Shucks! I wanted to hear something better then that! BUT I know you are RIGHT I guess I was hoping for a miracle. OK time to roll up the sleeves and get at it! Thanks a bunch. You ever work on something over and over till it seems it will never work? The money I am putting into this also is getting up there but I HATE GIVING UP......

I've been there.........just start with the basics, tackle one problem at a time. You already no the kill switch is hokey.....check the ignition switch etc. Check the neutral switch, the kickstand safety switch....all that stuff.



You'll get it, sounds like you are almost there.

 

[rayworx]

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I worked at a Honda dealership some time back and there was a tech who went through something like you're going through.



No matter what he did he couldn't get this old bike to start. It seemed to have all the basics and yet it wouldn't fire.



Turned out that the compression test wouldn't show a 'too tight intake valve' and the engine was not pulling enough vacuum to pull fuel through the carbs. Check your valves (all of them) while you've got the cover off and make sure they have some clearance in the rocker arms. There should be about .004" clearance minimum I think... which is enough to be able to feel the rocker arm tapping on the valve stem.



If this tech had done a 'leak down test' it would have showed the problem right away.

I learned a valuable lessonfrom that guys poor diagnosis.

 

[bailbob]

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Thanks I will do that.y

 

[bailbob]

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Thanks for all the help on this. I found that the spark was ok on the right side but not the left, turns out a bad wire. Now I have spark on both sides but still no gas. I removed the air filter housing and looked at the slides inside the carbs but neither seemed to be moving, so I pulled the top off of the carbs and took out the slides,on the left side the slide was stuck, but the right side seemed ok moving freely. I worked at freeing up the slide that was stuck and finally got it so it moved freely. I put the slides back on and cranked the engine with my hand over the back of the carbs and I have vacumm on both sides. I sprayed starting fluid inside the carbs and got a bit of a flutter as if the engine was trying to start but it did not start. Now the slide that was stuck is now stuck again. I have had enough for the day and tomorrow I will try again.

 

[Bish]

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Ohhhh, sooooo close!



Very fine grit sand paper or steel wool with some rubbing compound will polish the slide and throat up nicely. Make sure the choke is opening and closing when you work the linkage, and check to make sure the float bowls are filling up with gas by loosening the drain school a little bit to see if gas comes out.

 

[bailbob]

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Ok, here's whats up to date. I checked the valves to see if any was to tight and all was fine at.004. Then I pulled the carbs again and I found I had put the plastic gaskets on the sliders upside down (oops!) I then looked to see if I had done anything else stupid! I could find nothing. I put the carbs back on and it still would not start, BUT I then sprayed starting fluid inside the carbs an it would start and run but I could not give it any gas (open the throttle) or it would die and also it would not keep running by spraying the starting fluid into the carb. I am thinking it might be the vacumm controlled petcock but I do not know how to get around that without replacing it and I do not have another yet.The sliders are in great shape now. Motor sounds good also....but I have to find a way to get it to start and keep running!!!!!!

 

[bailbob]

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ANOTHER UPDATE: IT IS RUNNING!!! Not excellent but it is running and will start without the help of starting fluid, as well as I can open the throttle and the rpms increase! It will need some sync on the carbs but it's running.....WOW! what a long voyage!

 

[Bike...and Dennis]

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I'll say one thing, this thread has been a good read. A real mystery novel.

 

[Bish]

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bailbob wrote:

ANOTHER UPDATE: IT IS RUNNING!!! Not excellent but it is running and will start without the help of starting fluid, as well as I can open the throttle and the rpms increase! It will need some sync on the carbs but it's running.....WOW! what a long voyage!

Alright!

 

[bailbob]

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Another Update! No Spark again! I have not done a thing to it but this morning I went to start it and nothing, did not even flutter. Pulled the plugs and no spark either side. I think I will go out and cut the grass and get my mind off it for awhile.

 

[Bike...and Dennis]

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bailbob wrote:

Another Update! No Spark again!

Geez! I hate false endings in a novel.

 

[Bish]

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bailbob wrote:

Another Update! No Spark again! I have not done a thing to it but this morning I went to start it and nothing, did not even flutter. Pulled the plugs and no spark either side. I think I will go out and cut the grass and get my mind off it for awhile.

I'd go through EVERY ground wire on that bike. Get a can of spray contact cleaner from NAPA or Checker and a tube of dialectic grease. Open up every single one of those connectors and electrical plugs, spray the contact cleaner in it, let it dry, pack it with dialectic grease, then reconnect.



Clean the engine ground wire.



Check all of the switches mentioned previously....neutral, kill, etc.

 

[bailbob]

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Thanks Bish,
I had another coil and installed that and have a bit of a spark, but not a strong spark. I will do as you suggest and check all the ground wires. I have some electrical spray from Napa called QD Electronic cleaner but I will have to get some of the grease.
Thanks again & I will keep ya posted
Bailbob

 

[CaptainMidnight85]

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Make sure it is silicone based grease.. and not petroleum based.

 

[bailbob]

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Guess what! Another UPDATE! Bike is back to running again, but as before its not running real good but its running! I did as suggested I took all the ground wires loose and sprayed them and put the dialectic grease on and it took awhile but it finally started and I ran it about 10 minutes and then let it sit and it started back up but the engine is backfiring through the mufflers and the carbs still need fine tuning as well as maybe some valves. When I took the ground wires off I did not see anything wrong but what ever it was I now have spark and the engine is alive again....THANKS ALL!!!!! If any more thoughts on this let me know as I can use all the help I can GET