[Jim Nichols]

I just replaced my 1990 in tank fuel pump using the Berry PDF process.I'm a little concerned
about the air hose being excluded in the rebuild?
I have about a 1/2 tank of gas and have the hose before the fuel filter off to see if there is
a gas flow when cranking. I can hear the new pump pumping when cranking but no fuel.
I have tried to prime the pump by siphoning gas through the pump using a hand unit. I get
fuel through the pump and into a container. I tried cranking and siphoning but still no
fuel pumping out with just cranking. I'm stuck on what to do next. I could add more fuel
to the tank and try again. Need help!

 

[briese]

What is the Berry PDF process and doesn't address possible problems with the process?

 

[BLUTHUNDR31]

Sounds like the "output" hose from the pump to the bottom of the "plate" at the top has a kink in it. A kink in that output hose is a fairly common problem unless you are aware of the possibility as you put in the new pump (don't ask how I know ). That "breather" hose is not needed, quite a few of us have left it out with no problems.

Pull the pump back out (lower the amount of gas first), and you might need to put a brass 90 degree elbow in the hose to resolve the bend kinking on you. Make sure the hose from the pump up to the metal plate on top is rated at, or equivalent to the Gates R7093 hose.

 

[AZgl1800]

What is the Berry PDF process and doesn't address possible problems with the process?

here you go:

http://www.berrysweb.com/Documents/GL1500_FuelPump.pdf

 

[briese]

here you go:

http://www.berrysweb.com/Documents/GL1500_FuelPump.pdf

Thanks.

 

[Jim Nichols]

Sounds like the "output" hose from the pump to the bottom of the "plate" at the top has a kink in it. A kink in that output hose is a fairly common problem unless you are aware of the possibility as you put in the new pump (don't ask how I know ). That "breather" hose is not needed, quite a few of us have left it out with no problems.

Pull the pump back out (lower the amount of gas first), and you might need to put a brass 90 degree elbow in the hose to resolve the bend kinking on you. Make sure the hose from the pump up to the metal plate on top is rated at, or equivalent to the Gates R7093 hose.

1990 Gold Wing here again. Thanks for the input and dialog and I'm also glad that the Berry site was figured out and noted.
As to the Kink theory.... I purposely arranged the new Fuel Pump position using the original clamping for the least amount of resistance due to bending. It is better than the original angles. And I used the top of the line 5/16 submersible hosing and new clamps. I also very much appreciate the verbal support for not using the breather hose. I wasn't really confident at first. But I still have the pumping problem. Since I had only a 1/2 tank when I first started all of this, I'm going to go to 3/4 tank or more in the morning and see if there is a difference. And I am almost positive that I got the + and - right with blue wire connected to the positive side of the pump and the black wire going to ground. The + - markings were on the pump terminals. I called and asked the Fuel Pump company just to make sure. But who knows for sure. Right? Maybe it is reversed for some reason? Maybe some feedback there?

I did find this in the forum concerning the ECU....
"Steve Saunders Gold Wing Forum - No books in front of me, just memory cells. The ECU will provide power to the fuel pump for 2 or 3 seconds to prime the carb fuel bowls. If engine does not start, the ECU shuts off the fuel pump."

Maybe there is an inclusive electronic shut down mechanism until the motorcycle is completely running, such as the relays, or that rear whatever system, or other controls in the system. I have seen the simple drawing of how the electrical actually works to the pump. But I don't know how that would not let the pump simply pump if there is 10 volts to the pump when cranking. I suppose that the new pump could simply be faulty somehow or there is a fatal internal leaking going on. Is there a way to safely apply the battery voltage directly to the pump while it is in the tank without cranking the starter? I have read that start up can be lengthy because the whole system needs priming from the pump to the carb bowls. But I can't even get the pump to pump from the pump to the immediate outlet tube before the filter. I understand the Kink theory, but I'm almost positive it is not kinked. Still in the dark....Try again in the morning. Thanks for the think tank!

 

[BLUTHUNDR31]

Your '90 will NOT have the 2 second "prime" routine when the key is turned to the "ON" position, , , that was only for the '88-'89's.

Try the black wire on the "B" terminal, , , check the other color wire for continuity to ground, and put it on the "G" terminal if you get continuity.

You can "test" the output by disconnecting the wires from "B" terminal and the "G" terminal (i think they're the green wire and the black wire B&G), , THEN using wires with alligator clips you can go from the (+) battery terminal to the "B" terminal, and another clip from the (-) battery terminal to the "G" terminal of the metal plate. Disconnect the fuel line at the fuel filter (input side) and let the fuel flow into a graduated beaker. You should get 1 1/2 - 2 oz. of fuel with a 5 second power test of the pump. The aftermarket pumps will give a bit more than the OEM pump, , your OEM pump was rated at about 22 oz./minute. The NAPA/Carter fuel pump that I used gave 2+ oz. in 5 seconds.

 

[DaveO430]

Are you sure you got the wires on the right terminals, not running the pump backward?

 

[AZgl1800]

FWIW,
when I installed the NAPA pump on my '98 1500, I had to use a brass 90 degree elbow to prevent the output line from crimping itself flat, preventing fuel flow.

that is noted in this thread:

GL1500 fuel pump replacement with - Napa P72190 pump is...

I did some research and found that the Napa P72190 fuel pump ($60) runs at 15 GPH and about 2.5-3.5 psi which is closer to the stock 10 GPH. The Delphi and Airtex pumps listed in other posts are running at +/- 20 GPH. I bought the Napa pump today along with a fuel strainer for the inlet Napa...

www.goldwingfacts.com

 

[redwing52]

All signs point to the pump is either bad or the pump is running backwards....

 

[Jim Nichols]

All signs point to the pump is either bad or the pump is running backwards....

It's another day! I appreciate Dave's and Redwings simplification.... And bluthunder's wiring check is a good idea. Maybe I am confusing the B connector on top to being the Blue pump wire on the pump in the tank below, when really the B on top is for the black wire or ground, thereby actually reversing the pump connections in the tank? The top wires are Black with a blue stripe and green or B and G. Any electrical downside to reversing the top side connections and see if it runs the pump forward? That is, instead of pulling the pump and reversing the connections and reinserting the pump etc.

I'm the one that assumed the blue wire on the pump should go the positive side of the pump. The man on the phone just agreed with my proposal by saying, "yea" Appreciate your approval or advice before I blow something.

 

[redwing52]

If you reverse the wires external the tank you could short hot to ground. You need to reverse internal the tank to be safe. Can you hear or see any air bubbles in the tank. It would blow air in the gas if it runs backwards but might be hard to tell if the gas is low.

 

[Bryanlj]

I would see B as battery and G as ground which on a lot of Hondas would be Black for battery and Green for ground.
NOTE:-

Most Hondas have Red from battery to ignition switch then Black as the power out of the switch (switched live)

 

[Jim Nichols]

If you reverse the wires external the tank you could short hot to ground. You need to reverse internal the tank to be safe. Can you hear or see any air bubbles in the tank. It would blow air in the gas if it runs backwards but might be hard to tell if the gas is low.

I think you are right. I remember connecting the Blue fuel pump wire below up to the positive post on the pump, then connecting the long wire to the upper connector, which would evidently be the green connection above or ground, thus reversing the pump system. I'm going into the tank again and checking things out. After explaining the details to my wife, and emphasizing how stupid I felt, she responded, "Well Da!" After messing with the gas lines for so long, I think the fumes are getting to the both of us. We'll get back to you. Thanks

 

[redwing52]

I think you are right. I remember connecting the Blue fuel pump wire below up to the positive post on the pump, then connecting the long wire to the upper connector, which would evidently be the green connection above or ground, thus reversing the pump system. I'm going into the tank again and checking things out. After explaining the details to my wife, and emphasizing how stupid I felt, she responded, "Well Da!" After messing with the gas lines for so long, I think the fumes are getting to the both of us. We'll get back to you. Thanks

Could have been worse. Didn't light a candle to see in the tank better.

 

[redwing52]

When I was younger and raced one of my guys hooked the batteries up backwards. The car started and ran until the carbs ran dry. Had a hard time figuring it out. The bubbles in the fuel cell was the give away. Three things surprise me. It started and ran. It did not hurt any of the electronics and why did the starter not turn backwards?. It

 

[DaveO430]

When I was younger and raced one of my guys hooked the batteries up backwards. The car started and ran until the carbs ran dry. Had a hard time figuring it out. The bubbles in the fuel cell was the give away. Three things surprise me. It started and ran. It did not hurt any of the electronics and why did the starter not turn backwards?. It

I connected the battery backwards in my first car, a 53 plymouth. 6v positive ground. All it did was charge backwards.
No, reversing the polarity will not make the starter turn backwards.

 

[redwing52]

I connected the battery backwards in my first car, a 53 plymouth. 6v positive ground. All it did was charge backwards.
No, reversing the polarity will not make the starter turn backwards.

I looked up why starters won't turn backwards. It has something to do with pole configuration. I know how AC motors are directional.

On top in yellow

Reverse rotation of starter motor?

My buddy built a roller starter for my speedway bike. Starter is on left hand side of rollers to clear the low hanging pipe on the speedway bike. We f

www.practicalmachinist.com

.

So I bet permanent magnet motors will run backwards. Thus the issue with the fuel pump running backward but not my starter.


You can reverse the rotation by reversing polarity of one pair of brushes. If you do both pairs you are right back to where you started. Just learned that too. 😎

 

[GLblinded]

I looked up why starters won't turn backwards. It has something to do with pole configuration. I know how AC motors are directional.

On top in yellow

Reverse rotation of starter motor?

My buddy built a roller starter for my speedway bike. Starter is on left hand side of rollers to clear the low hanging pipe on the speedway bike. We f

www.practicalmachinist.com

.

So I bet permanent magnet motors will run backwards. Thus the issue with the fuel pump running backward but not my starter.

A starter is ‘timed’ between the brushes/armature and the field winding. they will spin backwards (weakly) but the bendix drive will not ramp out for engagement with a flywheel. Some starters have ‘permanent magnets‘ but I’d bet your referring to brushless motors. Those will spin backwards all day.

 

[Jim Nichols]

Could have been worse. Didn't light a candle to see in the tank better.

Well, I'm back from the garage for a update de-briefing. Had a neighbor come over for the grand reveal after reversing the In-Tank fuel pump connections. Pumped like a charm, hooked everything back together and it started right up.
A little sea foam and I should be back in business with some faring re-assembly. The "stupid thing" is probably going to last for awhile, but I will be riding at least. The neighbor was actually trying to talk me into Sturgis again this year. Thanks to everyone for the positive support and sharing of mind, body and soul. It takes a village to own a Wing. You've been a great community of help. Till next time.....