[Jim Nichols]

I recently got my 1990 Wing out of storage and it wouldn't start. Fully cleaned the gas tank of all that
rusty debris, added new ethanol free gas plus a can of Sea Foam and no start. Found out that there was no gas being pumped, because the fuel pump was bad with no continuity. Replaced fuel pump successfully with my newly adopted Wing community. (That's an interesting story) And it started up. Reassembled all the fairing, started it up, warm it up, was going to test drive when one of the overflow tubes started leaking a lot fuel, so I garaged it with the intention of applying the float tapping process in the morning. But I also noticed at the same time that there was no real power response when giving it a good rev.

Thinking maybe the overnight sitting and sea foam additive might have resolved something, I started it up today. The plan was to tear things down to the carbs and give them a tap or two, but was told that maybe shutting off the fuel pump and running out the floats might cause some movement as well.

So, I unplugged the fuel pump and warmed up the bike to use up the fuel in the bowls. While warming it up, I still noticed that there was no real power in the acceleration, yet it did warm up and actually came to an idle, but no real power as if it was running on 3 cylinders or so. I checked the muffler tips and two of the four tips (the two outside ones on each side) were not putting out any real exhaust pressure. I'm thinking that I have more than just a stuck float and needle problem.

Long story shortened, I'm stuck in the garage not knowing what I should do next. Could check the plugs for spark or fouled condition.... Could go ahead and do the carb tapping thing. That's my story as of now.... What do you think?

 

[gumbyred]

How long was bike sitting before the latest start up? Have you changed the fuel filter? Does the vacuum fuel shut off valve hold a vacuum? Probably has the idle circuit plugged up, and maybe even the main circuit partially. Possibility a long drive with Seafoam added to gas might bring it around. Otherwise, carbs need overhaul.
gumbyred

 

[Jim Nichols]

How long was bike sitting before the latest start up? Have you changed the fuel filter? Does the vacuum fuel shut off valve hold a vacuum? Probably has the idle circuit plugged up, and maybe even the main circuit partially. Possibility a long drive with Seafoam added to gas might bring it around. Otherwise, carbs need overhaul.
gumbyred

Yes it was over 6 months....Filter changed... I’ll have to look up about the idle circuit or the main circuit... Don’t know if I could get the bike going with the present power loss, thanks for the feedback

 

[redwing52]

I wonder if you have a stuck slide in one carb and it only runs on 3 cylinders?Checking the exhaust as you describe is not valid. The tips of the exhaust are just screwed on tips.

 

[Jim Nichols]

I wonder if you have a stuck slide in one carb and it only runs on 3 cylinders?Checking the exhaust as you describe is not valid. The tips of the exhaust are just screwed on tips.

G

I wonder if you have a stuck slide in one carb and it only runs on 3 cylinders?Checking the exhaust as you describe is not valid. The tips of the exhaust are just screwed on tips.

Guess I will take it down to the carbs and see how things are working. I can thump the floats and see if the slides are stuck at the same time. So, if I hear you right, a stuck slide would only allow 3 cylinders to get gas and function? Because it does feel like half of everything is not working. Thanks

 

[gumbyred]

Also another wild stab in the dark. Have the cam belts been changed recently? If the belts are one tooth off, it will still run.. But at a loss of power like you describe.
gumbyred

 

[DenverWinger]

I don't think a belt off-time by one cog would cause that drastic a power loss, I inadvertently slipped a cog installing the famous right side belt on my 1100. It ran "okay" on all 4 cylinders but it didn't run "Right".

I would tend to think that in addition to the carburetor that "runneth over" from stuck-open float valve the other carb may simply be stuck closed and dry. Once you have access to the carbs, with engine idling take some carburetor cleaner and spray into the intake. Spraying into the carb that runneth over will likely make the mix too rich and engine may stall. Spraying into a "dry" carb the other three cylinders might "Kick in" while burning the spray. This will also be a good opportunity to view the action of the slides.

If the stuck-open float valve is solved by running carbs dry with the pump disconnected or by tapping and you are no longer running fuel onto the ground, you might try taking it for a local spin around the neighborhood, you can still drive it with the plastics off. Whatever is amiss might suddenly decide to sort itself out - If there's a stuck-shut float valve running around the neighborhood may free it.

 

[Jim Nichols]

I don't think a belt off-time by one cog would cause that drastic a power loss, I inadvertently slipped a cog installing the famous right side belt on my 1100. It ran "okay" on all 4 cylinders but it didn't run "Right".

I would tend to think that in addition to the carburetor that "runneth over" from stuck-open float valve the other carb may simply be stuck closed and dry. Once you have access to the carbs, with engine idling take some carburetor cleaner and spray into the intake. Spraying into the carb that runneth over will likely make the mix too rich and engine may stall. Spraying into a "dry" carb the other three cylinders might "Kick in" while burning the spray. This will also be a good opportunity to view the action of the slides.

If the stuck-open float valve is solved by running carbs dry with the pump disconnected or by tapping and you are no longer running fuel onto the ground, you might try taking it for a local spin around the neighborhood, you can still drive it with the plastics off. Whatever is amiss might suddenly decide to sort itself out - If there's a stuck-shut float valve running around the neighborhood may free it.

Hello DenverWinger, Thanks for the discussion and ideas. I just tore down to the carbs today and found that the left carb slide was stuck or sticking. It sure took a long time to run the bowls dry, without the fuel pump. Once I loosened the slide a bit, the throttling up was much improved and it seems like more power has been restored. I warmed everything up and sure enough the overflow began spilling gas again. I have tapped around the carburetors trying to loosen up the floats and/or needle, but no solution yet .I'm debating to go to the next level and remove the bottom plastic piece to expose more of the carburetor area. I'm going to try your suggestion of spraying carb cleaner in the morning. What is a good brand to use? Is there a way to add the sea foam directly to the float bowl? I guess you could add it to the fuel line like the fuel pump does and fill it up that way. If I can get the gas leakage solved, I will drive it out. I'm getting closer to the promised land.... Thanks for the personal input.

 

[AZgl1800]

Sea Foam is good for the slow idle circuits, but won't help make the slides work easier "if run thru the fuel."

I used some spray carb cleaner to make the slides turn loose on my '94... mostly just because that applies a lot of spray in a hurry, and it carried the sandy powered crap away..... in my case, someone installed a K&N air filter and decided that the gasket below the airbox was "in the way" and left it out completely.

I happened to run down a road full of powdered dry flour sand, and the carbs filled up with sand really fast. took me several hours of trying to get it started and run down the highway at 15ish mph into the nearest town.... I striped everything off the top, to expose the slides and washed it all down, and used a pair of slender needle nose pliars to help the slides work up and down.

. back home, I threw that P.O.S. K&N in the trash and installed the OEM gaskets and air filter. that ended my problems.

 

[DenverWinger]

Since you already have seafoam in your fuel, you might try running the carbs dry again, movement of the needle valve is a good thing.

Sounds like both carbs are getting fuel, but the stuck slide would certainly cause those three cylinders to perform poorly.

If you can stop the "Carb Runneth Over" that should make it in somewhat driveable condition, running that tank (and probably a couple more) of seafoamed fuel will slowly get the carbs back to decent condition, might save a rebuild.

I don't think you want to put pure seafoam in the carb bowls, the flash point of Seafoam is too high, and the engine won't run on it pure until it is diluted some by gasoline. I tried that in a gas generator once to de-gunk the carb, engine wouldn't fire until the Seafoam was diluted about 50/50. Pretty stinky exhaust on that mix!

 

[Pure Texas]

Marvel mystery is good for slides

 

[Jim Nichols]

Off work and trying some carburetor spray while running. Slides are working well now.
All warmed up and Idling.....When I spray my B-12 Chemtool in the right carb it revs up.
But when I apply the same spray in the left carb it wants to only stall out and sputter. The affect doesn't change, even at higher steady rpms. Does this indicate or confirm something?

It still leaks gas out of the overflow when Idling and fuel pump on. No leakage when I disconnect
fuel pump or rev the engine to about 2500 rpm and hold. I suspect that I'm just using the bowl
fuel enough to keep it from overflowing.

 

[DaveO430]

Off work and trying some carburetor spray while running. Slides are working well now.
All warmed up and Idling.....When I spray my B-12 Chemtool in the right carb it revs up.
But when I apply the same spray in the left carb it wants to only stall out and sputter. The affect doesn't change, even at higher steady rpms. Does this indicate or confirm something?

It confirms it's lean on the right and rich on the left.

 

[redwing52]

Off work and trying some carburetor spray while running. Slides are working well now.
All warmed up and Idling.....When I spray my B-12 Chemtool in the right carb it revs up.
But when I apply the same spray in the left carb it wants to only stall out and sputter. The affect doesn't change, even at higher steady rpms. Does this indicate or confirm something?

It still leaks gas out of the overflow when Idling and fuel pump on. No leakage when I disconnect
fuel pump or rev the engine to about 2500 rpm and hold. I suspect that I'm just using the bowl
fuel enough to keep it from overflowing.

Seems like one carb is fine and one carb has an issue that causes the float level and fuel height to be too high. So one carb is running right while the other carb is too rich. (too much gas) Therefore ;logically it would seem if you add fuel by spraying carb spray in to the working carb it might pick up speed. The bad carb is already suffering from too much fuel so if you spray even more in the engine won't like that at all.
You haven't done any repairs etc. where you might have plugged or kinked the vent hose or is the fuel leaking from the vent hose? If the vent is open I would take it for a fairly aggressive ride so fuel will really be moving in the bad carb. Maybe the Seafoam and movement will shake something loose. If the vent is open and the ride doesn't do the trick I suspect you are going to have to go inside. Might be a needle and seat issue or a float is taking on fuel?????

EDIT: Sorry Dave. We must have been typing at the same time. You must type with 2 fingers. I only type with one, so you finished first.

 

[Jim Nichols]

Seems like one carb is fine and one carb has an issue that causes the float level and fuel height to be too high. So one carb is running right while the other carb is too rich. (too much gas) Therefore ;logically it would seem if you add fuel by spraying carb spray in to the working carb it might pick up speed. The bad carb is already suffering from too much fuel so if you spray even more in the engine won't like that at all.
You haven't done any repairs etc. where you might have plugged or kinked the vent hose or is the fuel leaking from the vent hose? If the vent is open I would take it for a fairly aggressive ride so fuel will really be moving in the bad carb. Maybe the Seafoam and movement will shake something loose. If the vent is open and the ride doesn't do the trick I suspect you are going to have to go inside. Might be a needle and seat issue or a float is taking on fuel?????

EDIT: Sorry Dave. We must have been typing at the same time. You must type with 2 fingers. I only type with one, so you finished first.

No, I haven't done any repairs other than cleaning out the gas tank, sea foam and a new fuel pump. So, it's overly rich in the left carb because of a possible float or needle problem right? Is there any other advice on getting the needle and/or float working again. Maybe blowing air directly through the needle seat area via a fuel passage? I guess I need to take off the lower air cleaner plate to see more options for compressed air or carb cleaner applications. One step at a time.

But in the end, maybe you are right... I just need to get it on the road and run it out. A stuck slide was the biggest problem in taking it out earlier. There was no power to really ride it. But it's the overflow leakage that has me most worried. There's got to be another answer for the float or needle sticking problem without getting into the carb. Tapping hasn't worked. Frustrated but thankful for my Wing Community..

 

[AZgl1800]

I suspicion the left side float needle is hanging open, for some reason.
either debris, or the float is miss adjusted.

probably need to remove the carbs and check them out.

 

[BLUTHUNDR31]

Jim, What brand/model fuel pump did you put in? Could excessive flow/pressure be causing the problems you're having?
What was the flow rate and pressure rating of the newly installed fuel pump?

 

[Jim Nichols]

Jim, What brand/model fuel pump did you put in? Could excessive flow/pressure be causing the problems you're having?
What was the flow rate and pressure rating of the newly installed fuel pump?

Good Point.... Here's how I chose the one I did. There was the Delphi FE0009 model as considered in the Berry replacement illustration, but hard to get and not so reliable from reviews. Then there was the Artex E8371 with too high volume, but the possible Airtex E11000 lawn tractor model. All balls 47-2007 was a real possible pump kit. Didn't know what the Ebay rebuild kit guy used for a fuel pump, and I heard bad reviews on the Napa P72190 fuel pump. So I ordered the generic Amazon HFP-360-ST fuel pump replacement made by Quantum Fuel systems. I believe there might have been an EFI included in the description, which somewhat concerned me, but it said it was compatible with my specific 1988-2000 bike. All things considered, you may be right about the flow volume. After fixing the reverse wiring debacle, I just got good fuel flow, but did not actually check the volume. I was pleased it was pumping and the bike started up. I guess I could run the 5 sec. volume test times 12 and see what the actual flow volume is. But wouldn't it be too much for the other carb as well? The one carb works great..... Thanks again for responding.

 

[Jim Nichols]

I suspicion the left side float needle is hanging open, for some reason.
either debris, or the float is miss adjusted.

probably need to remove the carbs and check them out.

Thanks for your summary, but I don't want to remove the carbs, if you know what I mean. Is the needle one of those
complicated ones with the internal moving center piece that can seize shut? I saw a video where a person used a torch to heat the unit and the center piece of the needle popped up. I guess I'm going to go a little deeper into removing the bottom plastic of the air cleaner to get a better view and try a few more air and cleaner options. There are some detailed carb removal videos that I could use if I have to remove the carbs to get to the float chamber. Thanks again

 

[BLUTHUNDR31]

I've seen that pump on Amazon and wondered if it would work well. A minor bit of confusion exists on the Amazon listing though, it looks like HFP-360-ST is for the ST1100 with EFI, however, the HFP-360-ST-1 is for the GL1500. The title is the same for both, but the spec's table shows the different number. Apparently the two pumps have different weights and, or components.

If getting the needle/left carb working correctly doesn't fix your issue, , I'd be suspicious of the flow on that fuel pump, , a 5 second test would give a decent idea of flow.

I tend to agree with John (AZgl1800) about the left carb having an issue.