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The connector C57 is located over the fan on the right side. It is a red 9 pin connector that the 12 volts passes through for the kill switch, then to the coils and ECU. You might want to take a look at that connector checking for corroded or bent pins etc. Also while you have the tupperware off, check C54. It is a white 4 pin connector that all the wires for the coils go through. It is on the right side near the ECU.
 

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Discussion Starter #103
The cTonnector C57 is located over the fan on the right side. It is a red 9 pin connector that the 12 volts passes through for the kill switch, then to the coils and ECU. You might want to take a look at that connector checking for corroded or bent pins etc. Also while you have the tupperware off, check C54. It is a white 4 pin connector that all the wires for the coils go through. It is on the right side near the ECU.
Thanks Larry. I must have corrected the problem as I suspected either the plugs wires might be bad, or the connector on the right side. This morning I removed the plastic side covers on both the left and right sides. I grabbed an old plug that looked good and tested each individual wire one at a time with the engine running. Each plug sparked consistently without any wavoring or skipping. However, I did notice (not sure if it was the wa I was holding the plug) that the two middle wires on both sides didn't seem as strong as the outer wires on each side. Again, probably just a poor observation.

Next I removed each connecter from the harness above the right cooling fan, and man they were gunked from old grease. I didn't know which one was for the coils (until after reading your post just now), and so I cleaned all of them with contact cleaner. Put all back together and presot! Bike runs great again. However, the two plastic tabs on the harness bracket that are supposed to mount the harness atop of the right cooling fan are both broke. I'm not sure if that's bad or not. I suppose I could zip-tie them for now until I order a new bracket assembly for the connectors. But I'm almost certain that's where the problem was. So I will check the specific C57 connector tonight when I get home. I'm going to disconnect them, clean them vigorously with contact cleaner and check for bent or broken tabs or wires. But just for peace of mind, I'm going to replace all of the plug wires next month. I think I can do it without removing the carbs. But if I ever had to replace the coils, god be with the person around me as I'm doing the job. I'm going to curse, swear, and throw crap. :ROFL: I've heard that coils are usually bullet proof on the Goldwing's, so I'm sure they are fine since I didn't see any intermittent sparking. Right now the bike is running good again after cleaning all of the connectors this morning. But now that I know which specific one to look at, I'm going to clean that one again tonight.

Thanks again!
 

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Bummer. While your in there check the spark plug boot resistors for corrosion etc.
If you haven't done so already, they are accessed by unscrewing the slotted head that you will see as you look inside the boot, (if you still have OEM wires).
Also make sure that the drain holes in in spark plug wells are open and free of any standing water.
Probably not your issue but quick and easy to check.
 

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Did you pull the plugs right after this happened to see what they looked like? That right there would have told you if it was loaded up with gas from misfiring or carboned up from running rich. It would also tell you what cylinders were an issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #106
Bummer. While your in there check the spark plug boot resistors for corrosion etc.
If you haven't done so already, they are accessed by unscrewing the slotted head that you will see as you look inside the boot, (if you still have OEM wires).
Also make sure that the drain holes in in spark plug wells are open and free of any standing water.
Probably not your issue but quick and easy to check.

They appear to be factory wires, and I didn't notice any water or oil buildup in the plug area, so I'm assuming the drains are working correctly. While the wires appear to be in good shape, I still want to replace them just for peace of mind. The problem of course is finding a good set of wires that are not too complicated to install. Any recommendations on a set of good long lasting wires that are already assembled? Or should I stick with factory wires?


Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #107
Did you pull the plugs right after this happened to see what they looked like? That right there would have told you if it was loaded up with gas from misfiring or carboned up from running rich. It would also tell you what cylinders were an issue.

I didn't pull the plug, but I did mess around with the red electrical connector on the bracket above the right cooling fan. It appears to be severely corroded, and I believe that is the electrical supply to the coils; correct me if I'm wrong. Bike runs great ever since, although a good carburetor sync and idle mixture screw adjustment is in order. It's possible the bike may be running a bit rich. However, I am waiting til next month to purchase factory mufflers and I'll re-tune/sync the carbs then. I'm also wanting to replace the ignition wires just for peace of mind. Any recommendations on a great set of wires that will work efficiently and is long-lasting?


Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #108
UPDATE:


Sorry it's been a few days since my last posting. I wanted to let everyone know that my Goldwing has been riding quite well. She needs a good carb-sync and could use a set of new plug wires. But I am waiting on a few other things before I tackle that. I still have a mind to rebuild the carbs since I have the kit. But there does not appear to be any carb issues, save a few adjustments and tuning. The only reason I would rebuild the carbs is if I had to yank them out in order to replace the coil packs. But at this time, I believe the coils are working as designed. So new wires would suffice.


As stated, she runs fantastic! She had a few jerky moments on the road on these 99 degree hot and humid days, but that only happened in OD at about 30mph and I throttled it a bit too much. A short bounce of the throttle, and she returned to normal. It is my opinion that the carbs need to be tuned to increase fuel mixture efficacy and could explain the occasional bumps I feel at low RPM. Since I've cleaned the electrical connector (red one) above the right cooling fan, the Goldwing continues to drive really well. Thus far, after two tank fillups, I am averaging about 36 mpg to 38mpg. Does anyone know if this is normal fuel consumption for the Goldwing? I have actually considered reducing its idle jet size, and possibly the main jet. But since she drives very well with lots of pull above 2,500 RPM, I presume that the main-jets are just fine and where they need to be. However, I still wonder if the idle jets might be a bit large, and could be causing a slight rich condition. Albeit, I think a proper adjustment of the idle mixture screw should resolve that issue, which really isn't an issue with me at this point.


Upcoming maintenance will be:


1. Replace modified exhaust with factory exhaust
2. Replace plug wires (for peace of mind)
3. Tune carbs after muffler replacement
4. Install missing rear stereo speakers and upgrade front speakers to larger better ones
5. Replace "L" bracket on left side of bike
6. Give the Goldwing a new paint job (I'm a former automotive painter)


Oh, i still need to bleed the front/rear brakes as they feel very spongy. I can pump them on the road, and the pedal gets pretty tight. So it's obvious I have air in the system. But it's been so hot these past few days I I just can't muster up the desire to work in the heat and remove the left saddle bag. LOL


I might also have to consider rebuilding the front forks as the left one appears to be leaking a little bit of oil out of the seal. I suspect one of the struts has more load than the other. They do not appear to be too difficult to remove, but I'll do that on a later date/time.


Anyways, that's where I am at so far. Hope all is well with you all!
 

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Discussion Starter #111
High all!


I'm back again! I have a question or clarification of the three different spark plugs listed in the manual. Right now, the bike is running about 95% percent better than before but with an occassional jerk or two during low RPM acceleration in 3rd to OD under 2,000 RPM. It doesn't do it consistently as it has done prior to replacing the plugs, but it did it once this morning not long after starting the bike after a 40 minute drive. After the short event, the bike ran normal. Seems to me my carbs need tuning, or I may need to yank off the carbs and set the floats to 8mm instead of 7mm, but I'll do that next month when I purchase the new wires.


The manual lists 3 different plugs:


1. Standard - DPR7EA-9
2. Gold Climate - DPR6EA-9
3. High Speed long term riding - DPR8EA-9


Right now I'm using the Standard which seems to be working fine. The difference between the three with regards to PN is the fourth digit (6, 7, and 8). Correct me if I'm wrong, but are 6EA plugs the strongest? Or is it the other way around. Given that 6EA plugs are for colder climates below 41F degrees, I assume that means the spark is stronger than the weakest plug 8EA-9. I'm wondering why a weaker plug would yield better high RPM results? Does this have to do with spark-knock control?



Right now, temperatures in my area during the summer have been averaging 99F degrees with a heat index of 109. So the standard plugs would be the best option of course. However, what were to happen if I installed the cold temperature plugs (6EA-9)? Would the engine spark knock?


Looking at the old plugs, most were correct. However, there were two plugs that were the high RPM plugs (I assume weaker ones if I understand correctly) which were PN: DPR8EA-9. I think those two plugs were the ones misfiring at low RPM.


Summary:


Are the 8EA-9 plugs weaker than the 6EA-9 plugs?
 

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The spark strength is not effected by the heat range of the plug. That only controls how well the heat is transferred from the ceramic to the metal portion of the plug. If the plug gets too hot, it can cause pre-ignition, and it can damage the internal resistor, if it is a resistor plug, which those are. So you select the heat range so that the plug operates at the correct temperature. Cold weather causes the plug to cool off a little too well, so changing to a plug that doesn't transfer heat as well, puts the plug temp back in spec. Conversely, running at extended high speeds tends to overheat the plug, so selecting one that can move that heat into the head better will keep the business end of the plug from getting too hot.

Put the stock plugs in, run them a while then pull them out and look at them to see how things are running. Who knows why you had a mix of plugs. Might have been what was on hand, or was done for a reason, like you can run a hotter plug on a cyl. with high oil consumption to help keep the plug from fouling as often. Not a fix but more of a band-aid. No idea why you would have two cyl. with colder plugs, at least not on a water cooled engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #113
The spark strength is not effected by the heat range of the plug. That only controls how well the heat is transferred from the ceramic to the metal portion of the plug. If the plug gets too hot, it can cause pre-ignition, and it can damage the internal resistor, if it is a resistor plug, which those are. So you select the heat range so that the plug operates at the correct temperature. Cold weather causes the plug to cool off a little too well, so changing to a plug that doesn't transfer heat as well, puts the plug temp back in spec. Conversely, running at extended high speeds tends to overheat the plug, so selecting one that can move that heat into the head better will keep the business end of the plug from getting too hot.

Put the stock plugs in, run them a while then pull them out and look at them to see how things are running. Who knows why you had a mix of plugs. Might have been what was on hand, or was done for a reason, like you can run a hotter plug on a cyl. with high oil consumption to help keep the plug from fouling as often. Not a fix but more of a band-aid. No idea why you would have two cyl. with colder plugs, at least not on a water cooled engine.

My best guess as to why two of the plugs were the wrong ones (high RPM plugs) was the previous owner. He isn't the brightest when it comes to proper maintenance of anything....lol Tractors, trucks, cars, and bikes; if it's a machine, it will likely be neglected. Just today I told him that it was important to change the nickel plated plugs earlier than normal, roughly 30,000 miles give or take. I'm told that these plugs are not known for lasting very long. He laughed and said, "Not my Goldwing! I can go forever on those plugs and mine doesn't have nickel plated plugs". I'm like, "huh? Are you sure? Could that be the reason why your bike doesn't start very well and tends to stall whether cold or hot?" LOL He's the one that sold me my Goldwing because he couldn't figure out why it wouldn't run right. So he sold it to me and purchased another one....a 1998 Goldwing A. It smokes (blue) bad when starting up and runs like hell. Once it warms up, it runs better, but after shutdown and restart, it spits, pugs, and sounds ragged, but he thinks everything is fine. LOL



My wife's Dodge RAM peace of crap Hemi just went through that. It misfired bad on two cylinders and I thought it might have been the typical Hemi valve seat failure. Turns out the nickel plated plugs have to be replaced every 30,000 miles according to Dodge specs; at least that was what I was told by the service department. What is the recommended plug replacement frequency of the Goldwing?


Right now I'm running the correct spark plugs on all cylinders, NKG DPR7EA-9 standard plugs, and she runs fairly well. Some of my issues involves tuning and syncing the carbs, and also resetting the floats in the carbs to 8mm instead of the 7mm I mistakenly set them at last year. I will do all of this next month when I have all available parts, i.e. factory muffler with baffles, new plugs wires, yank the carbs for another rebuild and resetting of the floats to 8mm, and then I'll perform a proper idle/air mixture adjustment and carb-sync. Should be perfect by then. I suspect also that the idiotic free-flowing sawed exhaust (sawed as in jury-rigged) may be contributing to engine performance issues. As a test run, I removed the chrome jury-rigged caps the previous owner installed on the mufflers, and I wrapped it with baffle wrap (fiber glass) and re-installed the chrome end-caps; I hate those ugly things and it makes the Goldwing sound hideous with that absurdly loud over-toned bass humming. I noticed improvement to engine performance on the low-end since a little more back-pressure is supplied to the exhaust system. I know from experience that modern machines must have some form of back-pressure which helps improve fuel efficiency, helps keep the exhaust valves a little cleaner, and reduces exhaust flow turbulence. It reduced the over tone about 10% percent but still annoying. I cannot wait to get the factory mufflers....this jury-rigged crap is driving me insane. Ear drums want to vibrate out of my head. :laugh:
 

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The Honda Service Manual states plug replacement at 12.5K mile intervals.
 

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I've been following this thread and doing the suggest repairs/replacements. Temp sensor in the water pipe. Checking all vac. lines for proper connections. It's been weeks since the carb was off so I can't remember seeing the bent or kinked vacuum lines. Gad, I hate to pull that off again. I have not checked the plugs, but will tonight. The bike has been setting for 6 yrs. Carbs rebuilt, lots of little things repaired and replaced throughout the systems. It runs much better than a few month back but now has this surge at low throttle, as the core of this thread is focused on. Here's a video I shot tonight of the bike fully warmed up, throttle set to 2k rpms and held. No choke. Really frustrating to say the least.

Thanks for the help on this.
 

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You guys are making me feel guilty. I've got better than 40K miles on the plugs in my 1500. Fuel economy is still at 37 mpg or better and the engine runs great. By the way, there is 173000 miles on the bike. Guess I should change those plugs soon.
 
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