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Why did the road captian let them get so close and was not watching far enough down the road in front of them.. I watch almost 1/4 mile in front of me, mabey due to driving a truck so long but I do that for my safety and the safety of others I share the road with. I think pack riding is good as long as you watch for your own safety while in the pack.

I hope everyone will be ok there.
 

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The side by side (versus the staggered offset) is extremely dangerous. It leaves the rider few options for avoiding road debris: take out the guy next to you or go into oncoming traffic/take the ditch. I prefer the staggered offset which allows a good view of two bikes ahead and gives a full lane for maneuvering. I cringe when I see people ride side by side. :shock:
 

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When I first got back on a motorcycle I "thought" that riding with a group might be an enjoyable thing to do. The SO and I went on a toy run with another friend of mine last Dec. The event was well organized and Santa just happens to be a neighbor of mine and has often invited us to GWRRA events even though he no longer owns a wing. (he now rides harley) The bikes were all sorts and a good range of makes. Lots of wings and everything in between. Some so noisy I could not hear my wing. There was good traffic control etc. Riders were assigned to traffic control the same as a funeral motorcade with good blocking etc and police presence along the route. Now this was a great event and very well structured. But I learned one thing.------ I dont like large groups. So its not going to happen for me again. Anticipating the moves of WHO KNOWS up ahead is just not my cup of tea.
 

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I rode with the Ferret and crew once. I liked the way we could spread out a bit. No need to ride in a "gob"! Speed was also not an issue. We went the speed limit, and had alot more fun than these guys. I hope everyone recovers well, but I also feel the testosterone levels got too high on this one. I see it all the time. Riders will blast up to your cage bumper, take a quick look, and blast around you. Those loud exhausts also startle some cagers, and they mash the brakes. Not a good thing if you are advancing fast from behind, and pile into them. JMHO jimsjinx
 

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Riding in a tight group is like formation flying, everyone has to hold position on the one next to him and only the leader is looking ahead. Riding in a group doesn't require the exclusive concentration on the adjacent vehicle as formation flying but the closeness of the other bikes does require a lot of attention which limits the amount of time available to see what's happening around you and up ahead. If everyone is holding their position perfectly and the leader doesn't do something suddenly it works but it's a lot more difficult than riding in a small group or solo. I think the side by side formations are just plain stupid on the highway. Okay in a parade but not on a highway where things are happening rapidly there's just too little room for each bike to maneuver.
 

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I rode with the SERRASJ group already too, and they are a nice group to ride with. You can pace yourself, and still have time to read the mailboxes. Doing my best to get down there again in November.
 

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In reading the article, I see that the lead bikes missed the stopped SUV, but bikes behind them either hit the SUV or each other. The article links to videos of one of this groups rides, lots of bikes, side by side in one lane, close together.

The problem is not with group rides. Handled correctly, groups of even 10-15 bikes can move without a problem. But in that formation you don't leave yourself time/space to react to problems.
 

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Road captain & tail gunner ..? what odd childish expressions.
I have to say we (sport bikes) ride in groups every weekend often twice and seldom pull the clown car oddball hollywood pile up car crash. Oh and we use "lead" & "sweep" and have been known to press three into a corner. I've only rode with a few of the area goldwingers which I usually stay behind since they are all over the road. As long as some one isn't smoking or wearing too much perfume.
 

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morram wrote:
Road captain & tail gunner ..? what odd childish expressions.
I have to say we (sport bikes) ride in groups every weekend often twice and seldom pull the clown car oddball hollywood pile up car crash. Oh and we use "lead" & "sweep" and have been known to press three into a corner. I've only rode with a few of the area goldwingers which I usually stay behind since they are all over the road. As long as some one isn't smoking or wearing too much perfume.
Interesting
 

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I agree, if I smell tobacco smoke or heavy perfume, I take my route elsewhere, immediately.
 

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exavid wrote:
Riding in a tight group is like formation flying, everyone has to hold position on the one next to him and only the leader is looking ahead. Riding in a group doesn't require the exclusive concentration on the adjacent vehicle as formation flying but the closeness of the other bikes does require a lot of attention which limits the amount of time available to see what's happening around you and up ahead. If everyone is holding their position perfectly and the leader doesn't do something suddenly it works but it's a lot more difficult than riding in a small group or solo. I think the side by side formations are just plain stupid on the highway. Okay in a parade but not on a highway where things are happening rapidly there's just too little room for each bike to maneuver.
After reading your commentsI wondered about an emergency vehicle coming from behind with the bikers' loud pipes and lack of visual scanning. The the ambulance, fire truck or police car has to pass this rolling road block. I don't like large rides even more now.
 

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nobbie wrote:
After reading your commentsI wondered about an emergency vehicle coming from behind with the bikers' loud pipes and lack of visual scanning. The the ambulance, fire truck or police car has to pass this rolling road block. I don't like large rides even more now.
Nobbie, I can shed a little light on that subject from the perspective of riding with guys who ride 2 wide and tight (read "club types") alot.

With most clubs, the guy riding on the tail (Most often the position in the club is "Sergeant at Arms" or "SA", whereas the "Road Captain" is the officer in charge of keeping accurate track of the route, and the Club's position along the route, and will be riding curbside of the lead bike) is in charge of protecting the group from threats from behind. He's also in charge of watching for emergency vehicles coming from behind.

It's a pretty heavy responsibility in the fact that the lead bike will be watching the road and his mirror. He's watching the road for things he needs to navigate the pack away from, and he's watching his mirror for the "SA". If there is something coming up from behind, the "SA" will slide out into the lead's rearward line of sight and signal (nobody else in the group is to move into the lead's mirror line unless an emergency move must be made so that the lead is watching for 1 headlight and only 1 headlight), with pre-arranged hand signals, what needs to be done. The lead bike will then signal to the pack, and the pack will move/accelerate/slow on the lead's hand signal.

This also will answer the question about why most "club types" don't wave when you pass them as a group. The simple answer is that you're looking at the wrong rider when you wave.

Because "club types" communicate bike to bike with hand signals...any movement of the left hand of the rider in front of you is to be read as a signal and reacted to without question...you're trusting him not to lead you into danger. As Paul so eloquently put it, it's alot like flying formation in 2-Dimension. The common wave is 2 fingers out on an extended arm, pointing toward the pavement, commonly thought to denote "Keep both wheels down and keep on riding". To a "club type", the hand pointing down toward the road is a warning to the bike behind you that there is something on the road surface that you need to be ready to follow the bike in front of you around.

If you will notice, when you wave at a pack of club riders, generally, if someone waves back, it's the tail-gunner...When he's not out in the leader's mirror, his hand signals are generally not observed and reacted to by the rest of the pack.

Personally, as tragic as an accident like this is, the fault lies with the leader (generally the President, or highest ranking officer/most senior member on that ride), who failed to keep his club at a safe distance/speed, thus not having enough time to communicate to the pack before jamming on the brakes and making evasive maneuvers.
 

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Don't get me wrong,I like to ride with a few friends at times for an Ice cream run or two.I mostly travel alone with the wife,we get to see more this way and don't have to keep my eyes glued to the bikes in front of me.We see very few wings riding together these days,back in the middle 80s or so there was alot of group riding,not so much any more...
 

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MDKramer wrote:
Nobbie, I can shed a little light on that subject from the perspective of riding with guys who ride 2 wide and tight (read "club types") alot......

[snipped for space]
Thank you MDK, nicely put.
 

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ScooterTramp wrote:
Thank you MDK, nicely put.
You're welcome Scooter, and thank you.

Honestly, I see an overwhelming misunderstanding of the club world in most Goldwingers, and I understand it...most Goldwingers don't ride with Clubs, or even care to associate with them...But I feel like maybe giving a little insight into the world would help bridge some of the animosity between the groups.

The vast majority of club riders are just like everyone else. They get up in the morning, put on their pants and a shirt and go to work to support their families, feed their children, and pay for their house and toys etc...

Yes, there are a few that take themselves a bit too seriously...But generally, you won't find a club guy who's out to menace and harass "civilians" (read: the general public). They tend to avoid seeking out things that draw the public's eye to them.
 

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I can ride in a large group, but there needs to be some CB's interspaced.(I used to make fun of them until I got one:waving:)



Also whenever you move or passit is like a very long snake moving. When you have over 15 bikes or so, during a pass it can take a 1/4 mile from the first to the last bike to get it done.



Still this is a very sad situation and I wish fast healing to all involved.
 

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"A" typical "BIKERS".

On the Brother Speed website, it's self-described as "a club that is serious about brotherhood, respect, riding fast and building Choppers."

Club called, "Brother Speed" & "riding fast"...ahhhhh, yup. Did youexpect anything less?

I'm glad 2 be a "MotorCyclist".





Still they are fellow riders, sorry to hear... & read of the loss.
 

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MDKramer wrote:
nobbie wrote:
After reading your commentsI wondered about an emergency vehicle coming from behind with the bikers' loud pipes and lack of visual scanning. The the ambulance, fire truck or police car has to pass this rolling road block. I don't like large rides even more now.
Nobbie, I can shed a little light on that subject from the perspective of riding with guys who ride 2 wide and tight (read "club types") alot.

With most clubs, the guy riding on the tail (Most often the position in the club is "Sergeant at Arms" or "SA", whereas the "Road Captain" is the officer in charge of keeping accurate track of the route, and the Club's position along the route, and will be riding curbside of the lead bike) is in charge of protecting the group from threats from behind. He's also in charge of watching for emergency vehicles coming from behind.

It's a pretty heavy responsibility in the fact that the lead bike will be watching the road and his mirror. He's watching the road for things he needs to navigate the pack away from, and he's watching his mirror for the "SA". If there is something coming up from behind, the "SA" will slide out into the lead's rearward line of sight and signal (nobody else in the group is to move into the lead's mirror line unless an emergency move must be made so that the lead is watching for 1 headlight and only 1 headlight), with pre-arranged hand signals, what needs to be done. The lead bike will then signal to the pack, and the pack will move/accelerate/slow on the lead's hand signal.

This also will answer the question about why most "club types" don't wave when you pass them as a group. The simple answer is that you're looking at the wrong rider when you wave.

Because "club types" communicate bike to bike with hand signals...any movement of the left hand of the rider in front of you is to be read as a signal and reacted to without question...you're trusting him not to lead you into danger. As Paul so eloquently put it, it's alot like flying formation in 2-Dimension. The common wave is 2 fingers out on an extended arm, pointing toward the pavement, commonly thought to denote "Keep both wheels down and keep on riding". To a "club type", the hand pointing down toward the road is a warning to the bike behind you that there is something on the road surface that you need to be ready to follow the bike in front of you around.

If you will notice, when you wave at a pack of club riders, generally, if someone waves back, it's the tail-gunner...When he's not out in the leader's mirror, his hand signals are generally not observed and reacted to by the rest of the pack.

Personally, as tragic as an accident like this is, the fault lies with the leader (generally the President, or highest ranking officer/most senior member on that ride), who failed to keep his club at a safe distance/speed, thus not having enough time to communicate to the pack before jamming on the brakes and making evasive maneuvers.
And this is suppose to be fun???:?:?:?:? Oh well each to his own
 

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ScooterTramp wrote:
IMO, the days of riding 'in groups' are over. There is just too much traffic - and bad drivers - too do this. The 'clubs' have always done this, maybe now they'll re-think this. I'm starting to like the idea of a 'meet point'. That is, if I rode with anyone.
i agree 100% !!!! i really don't like to ride with more than 5 or maybe 6 bikes and 1 chase vehicle. and yes i have way more fun when all the riders are at a safe distance from each other and all are on the lookout for trouble. side by side is very dangerous especially here in socal. cagers do not look out for us at all. too busy talking on their cellphones or texting. i do also agree its better to meet at a designated point . this way you maybe with 2 others going to the same place.
 
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