Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
266 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Well, I'm back from my week long camping trip In Muncie. Since I picked up the bike last week I've put 660 miles on it. Here is my opinion so far:

1) It needs carb work. The off-idle hesitation gets better when you ride for awhile, but it always comes back after the bike has sat over night. It's very cold blooded when you first start it in the morning, and it tends to surge at low speeds even after haven been driven awhile.

2) Something doesn't feel quite right in the front end. I'm thinking it may be head bearings (loose or needing to be replaced) Sometimes when I hit a bump just the right way I get a bit of noise up there, and I can feel it through the handlebars a little bit. There is also a bit of uneven wear on the front tire (very minor, but definitely there).

3) I always seem to smell gas. I'm not really sure about this one, as I'm sure the tank has to have a vent tube and I've noticed this type of thing on other bikes when nothing was wrong with them. In fact my 94 FZR1000 has this smell and it's pretty much perfect mechanically and cosmetically. So, I'm not going to worry about this just yet. The bike is pretty consistently getting around 38 mpg, so I doubt I'm having float issues.

4) This bike is awesome on the highway! Very comfortable.

5) Coming from 20+ years of riding crotch rockets, to me this thing turns like a pig. But that isn't what it was designed for, is it? :action:


So, it's definitely a keeper but I'm going to have a little work to do. I've done quite a bit of carburetor work on older bikes and I'm not inclined to do it again. When I fix this I want it to be done right the first time, and I don't want to have to do it again. The way I see it the best way to do this is an EFI conversion. I'm going to have to research it, and the bike will be down for awhile once I start actually doing the work. So, it will probably be a winter project (may not be this winter). I'd love to hear all opinions on this. The good the bad and the ugly so to speak. Anyone with any experience doing an EFI conversion, please chime in!

My thoughts on the EFI conversion: I'm thinking of going the Megasquirt route, and wondering if it's possible to use the throttle bodies/injectors from a later model 1800. Has anyone here tried this?

Once I get to the point of actually doing the conversion, I'll post photos of my work and keep everyone updated on the project. With a little luck, when I'm done there will be a wealth of information available for anyone else wishing to attempt this project. It may seem a bit daunting at first, but I'm sure this is do-able.



Doug
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
185 Posts
imported post

That will be a nice project to watch. Regarding the gas smell. Is your fuel pump weeping? You will see little spurts coming out of it onto your right foot.

It does sound like a carb cleaning at least. That will cost you very little $ and just some time to do. Mine would not even start with the condition of the carbs so I rebuilt with a Randakk kit. Well worth the $200. If you are doing EFI, you might just want to try to the cleaning for now to get it running smooth.

Nice looking bike.
 

·
Vintage Rider
Joined
·
2,410 Posts
imported post

As for EFI, I can't imagine why anyone would want that, but to each their own. I have no idea how hard it is to get to the carbs on a 1500, but I do know that once cleaned, and then not neglected, they should never need cleaning again. I have 70,000+ miles on my '02 Kawasaki Vulcan 750, and the carbs have never been apart. It still runs like new.

I would be concerned about the gas smell. I wouldn't panic or anything, but it is not normal. All my bikes have had the emissions crap removed, and the gas tanks and carbs vented directly to the atmosphere, and I never smell gas. In fact, I keep 4 of them in what used to be my living room, and after being gone all day, I don't smell any gas when I get home. You may have a minor leak underneath all the plastic somewhere, probably near the carbs, that is not bad enough to notice mileage wise, and evaporates before it has a chance to drip down where you can see it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,795 Posts
imported post

Outlaw wrote:
...5) Coming from 20+ years of riding crotch rockets, to me this thing turns like a pig. But that isn't what it was designed for, is it?
> I was in same camp, 20yrs of daily sport bike riding... My first exposure to the GL1500 was highly Negative... I test rode one, then forgot about it for several years... Then went back to it a 2nd time with a different mindset. Namely, it's NOT a sport bike, and never will be... It is a darn good Touring bike though, so accept if for that.

> That being said, the 1500 is every bit as fun to ride as my sport bikes (except for the lack of acceleration; no wheelies)... and it does things that a sb would never do, like go 600 miles/day for days on end, in comfort!

> Your bike sounds like it needs some TLC
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,451 Posts
imported post

My opinions:



1) Rebuild the carb.s AND FIX THE OFF-IDLE ISSUE! You will be amazed on how well these bikes can run!! I had my bike for overa decade before I did it and kick myself for waiting. http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/113651.html



2) Tire pressure or bad tire? Not saying to skip looking at everything, but worth checking.



5) Tires and pressure, these bikes do well for the size.







Bill
 

·
Vintage Rider
Joined
·
2,410 Posts
imported post

I finally had to give up sportbikes, my 52 year old body just wouldn't take it anymore. The pain of riding more than 20 miles was simply unbearable. I've had a lot of cruisers, and a couple of full dress (Vetter) 1100 standards. I would not want the Goldwing as my only bike, but enjoy it as much as any other bike I've owned, and more than many.
 

·
Administrator
02 GL1800 w/Auto Pilot
Joined
·
59,657 Posts
imported post

Outlaw wrote:
So, it's definitely a keeper but I'm going to have a little work to do. I've done quite a bit of carburetor work on older bikes and I'm not inclined to do it again. When I fix this I want it to be done right the first time, and I don't want to have to do it again.

The way I see it the best way to do this is an EFI conversion.
You figure that one out, and I am going to be very interested. Bookmark this thread and keep coming back here with your ideas on it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,082 Posts
imported post

Before you do any carb work run a load of SEAFAOM through the gas tank. I bought a 91 CB750 this year. it ran real rough and I was sure it need carb work at first. I ran one tank of gas with SEAFOAM through it and now it is like its brand new.
 

·
Anti-Guru
Joined
·
2,711 Posts
imported post

For injection, the 1800parts would be a tough sell for me. TBI would be a bit easier to manage.

There's a few folks working with CV Carbs like the 1500 has, one of the kit's I've installed (on a VMax) is from Jack Flemming @ Roadster Cycle. Pretty neat bit of kit he's got -- basically, he turns a "slug" that replaces the existing Slide and diaphragm in your CV - the interior of this "slug" will fit a conventinal Bosh Fuel injector (the one I did we used 19#/hr injectors - can be had qty=8 for $40 as take-offs from mustangs -- lots of other applications for "used" shoopers).

He also has a trick bit of plumbing to allow you to fabricate a fuel rail - individual connectors that'll seal to the injuctor's supply side providing threads for you to work some fuel rail. - it'd be tight on the 1500 and you'll need a higer pressure pump (more electircal current & managament of that!) and I'd sugest a regulated loop system (easier, but a dead-head may be cheaper and less compact), so maybe a return line to the tank (easy enough to tap into the existing plate with a dump-straw)...

Megasquirt is definately the way to go (Microsquirt will be easier to fit inot the bike's space since you'll be keepign the ignition and stuff) -- TPS may also be a hurdle on the 1500 (not a lot of room to get anything onto the throttle shafts)

I'd guess about $1300USD or a bit more, for something reliable... Not terrible, but do consider that the redline is below 6K and the 6-cyl 1500 seems perfectly adapted to the way these Keihin CV carbs slide open (the intake runners are seriously long and will precipitate rapidly if a "snap-open" carb or injection system is used... )

TPI may be a better way to go and the Megasquirt drives can handle it, but there'll be qty=4 more injectors and some exciting manifold re-working to dump the load on the back of the intake valve...

I'd be interested to "follow along" as you do a FI conversion (TBI or other) as the only Goldwing injection that I've had any luck with is a 1200 using the large GM TBIs, which was plagued by the runner length issue.
 

·
Senior Guru
Joined
·
3,873 Posts
imported post

what year is the bike the hesition is only in the 88/99 later years you would only need the seafoam to clear the idle jets and the gas smell may be the petcock knowen for it or the air filter also drain the hoses on the left hand side with the caps on they let all the curd out of the air box and crank case breather tank
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,046 Posts
imported post

Outlaw wrote:
3) I always seem to smell gas. I'm not really sure about this one, as I'm sure the tank has to have a vent tube and I've noticed this type of thing on other bikes when nothing was wrong with them. In fact my 94 FZR1000 has this smell and it's pretty much perfect mechanically and cosmetically. So, I'm not going to worry about this just yet. The bike is pretty consistently getting around 38 mpg, so I doubt I'm having float issues.

---
Doug
Before you vent the tank, you might want to do some research. When I first bought my 1200, I read somewhere ( & I can't seam to find it), that the tanks are actually pressurized. Even on my 1500, when I fuel up, there is always little poof when I release the fuel cap.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
266 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
imported post

drones76 wrote:
That will be a nice project to watch. Regarding the gas smell. Is your fuel pump weeping? You will see little spurts coming out of it onto your right foot.

It does sound like a carb cleaning at least. That will cost you very little $ and just some time to do. Mine would not even start with the condition of the carbs so I rebuilt with a Randakk kit. Well worth the $200. If you are doing EFI, you might just want to try to the cleaning for now to get it running smooth.

Nice looking bike.
No gas on my foot. I didn't actually notice this smell until I accidentally overfilled the tank a little, so that might be the problem. It splashed out into the plastic area surrounding the filler cap. I assumed there would be a drain hose of some type connected to that. It might be plugged.

The previous owner of this bike installed higher flowing aftermarket pipes and a K&N air filter without re-jetting the carburetor. I'm sure THAT is a large part of the problem. But I think the surging probably has something to do with worn/sticking slides.

As for EFI, I can't imagine why anyone would want that, but to each their own. I have no idea how hard it is to get to the carbs on a 1500, but I do know that once cleaned, and then not neglected, they should never need cleaning again. I have 70,000+ miles on my '02 Kawasaki Vulcan 750, and the carbs have never been apart. It still runs like new.
Mostly because it's more efficient, and once you've got it running it's easier to make adjustments than re-jetting a carburetor. You can also control ignition timing and program for different situations. (ie: more power for pulling, better fuel economy, etc etc....) Just plug in your laptop and make the changes. In my humble opinion, it's also more reliable, and cold starting is a breeze. No more messing with the choke. Just turn the key on, hit the starter button and go.


Gotta run for now. I have more ideas on this and will share them as soon as I get a chance to sit down. Maybe this evening.



Thanks

Doug
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
266 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
imported post

Ok, finally got a chance to sit down at the computer without interruptions.



I finally had to give up sportbikes, my 52 year old body just wouldn't take it anymore. The pain of riding more than 20 miles was simply unbearable. I've had a lot of cruisers, and a couple of full dress (Vetter) 1100 standards. I would not want the Goldwing as my only bike, but enjoy it as much as any other bike I've owned, and more than many.
I'm right there with you. That is why I've talked myself into the Gold Wing. I do like it for what it is. I'm just making the adjustment to get used to it.... Still haven't sold my crotch rocket.:action: But it's murder on the wrists if you ride more than 20-30 minutes or so....



I've been talking with a friend about this conversion, and when I brought it up he got pretty excited. If you've read my post in the new members forum, he's the one who owns the 68 Firebird that he's retrofitting with a newer engine which is fuel injected. He completely re-wired that car to do it. And he just got it running a couple of days ago.

I'm still in the preliminary stages of doing my research here, but from what I have seen so far it looks like it may be possible to use the GL1800 throttle bodies. I don't believe the intake manifold will allow it, so it would require building a new one. This is do-able using the right diameter exhaust pipe. Just take it to a muffler shop have them custom bend the runners for you, then weld on your flanges, join everything together up top so that the throttle bodies will mount right up. Then weld on a few pieces down near the cylinders, to allow for drilling and taping for injectors. I'm thinking I'll even have it Jet-Hot coated inside and out so I won't have to worry about rust. I could probably even use the GL1800 injectors. But I'm not going to limit my choices there as there may be something else that fits the bill better when it comes time. It would be nice if I could use the GL1800 airbox, but I very seriously doubt I'll be that lucky. No matter, I'll come up with something there. I could even use pod filters if it comes down to it.


There's a few folks working with CV Carbs like the 1500 has, one of the kit's I've installed (on a VMax) is from Jack Flemming @ Roadster Cycle. Pretty neat bit of kit he's got -- basically, he turns a "slug" that replaces the existing Slide and diaphragm in your CV - the interior of this "slug" will fit a conventinal Bosh Fuel injector (the one I did we used 19#/hr injectors - can be had qty=8 for $40 as take-offs from mustangs -- lots of other applications for "used" shoopers). He also has a trick bit of plumbing to allow you to fabricate a fuel rail - individual connectors that'll seal to the injuctor's supply side providing threads for you to work some fuel rail. - it'd be tight on the 1500 and you'll need a higer pressure pump (more electircal current & managament of that!) and I'd sugest a regulated loop system (easier, but a dead-head may be cheaper and less compact), so maybe a return line to the tank (easy enough to tap into the existing plate with a dump-straw)...
Satan, sounds like you've had a little experience with this. Do you have any links for information? I'd love to check into this a little further. I'm leaning towards actual fuel injection instead of throttle bodies, but may find some useful stuff there.



Thanks everyone for all your input. Every little bit helps. If you think of something, or maybe happen to see something that may be useful, by all means don't be shy. No such thing as too much information....




Doug
 

·
Gregarious Greeter
Joined
·
16,809 Posts
imported post

Outlaw wrote:
5) Coming from 20+ years of riding crotch rockets, to me this thing turns like a pig. But that isn't what it was designed for, is it? :action:


Doug
You really need a ride on an 1800:action:
 

·
Vintage Rider
Joined
·
2,410 Posts
imported post

Cars are different. With any GM car that can accept a small block, you can drop a late model fuel injected Corvette ingine right into it, as long as you have all the parts. I have seen many Firebird/Camaro conversions like that. But to me it kind of defeats the purpose of owning a classic car.

But installing a fuel injection system on an engine that came with carbs would require a ton of fabricating. Unlike carbs, that can be worked on by most any mechanically inclined person, fuel injection is a VERY precise system. EFI requires a lot of sensors mounted in all kinds of locations. It should be fairly easy to convert a fuel injected LTD/SEI to carbs, if you had all the parts, but converting a carbed 1200 to FI would be nearly impossible. You would pretty much need to replace the whole engine.


I have ridden a 1500 with carbs that worked right, and was very impressed. I think Honda got it right by using only 2 carbs, in fact I don't know why it needed more than one. V8 car engines run beautifully with one carb.
 

·
Other side of the pond
Joined
·
3,409 Posts
imported post

If you can convert to EFI Doug, many people would love to follow your project.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,169 Posts
imported post

:waving:



Hey Outlaw and everyone else,

Here is my EFI project on a GL-1000.... On Naked GoldWing....



http://ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=31474



Granted it is a whole lot different than a 1500 but maybe this will wet your appetite.



Working on fuel system connections right now and electrical stuff.

I have the Microsquirt and most components, need to weld up my intakemanifold right now and start mounting everything.



I should have the 79 running on the Microsquirt this fall on fuel injection.

Once I get the injection going okay I will work on the ignition, will have to mount a chopper on the front crank with sensor, that may be a good challenge.



Good luck on the 1500, I would love to have one to work on.

Don't know why Honda did not go with EFI on the 1500, maybe pure economics.??



See Ya

John kb0ou :byebye:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
392 Posts
imported post

Well, I was in the same boat as you.

My 1999 had off idle issues and 32/35mpg. I was not very happy with my bike.

Had to choke the heck out of it to get it started, etc...

I did a lot of research into efi and started the prepariations.



I decided to put seafoam in for 4 tanks (1/2 can per tank).



It started running better and better. The first thing I noticed was the off idle issue dissapeared by the second tank full. Now a couple of thousand mile later and many tank of gas, all issues of off idle are gone and my mileage is up.

I consistantly get >38 mpg. I got a high of 43.?mpg this past weekend (on a 750 mile trip).



These bikes love to be ridden. Sitting only make matters worse.

Try the seafoam for 2-4 tank fulls. What do you have to loose other than ~$20.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,148 Posts
imported post

Regarding the gas smell. Is your fuel pump weeping? You will see little spurts coming out of it onto your right foot.

The fuel pump isn't in the same place on the 1500.

On the 4 cylinder wings, it's external on the right side.

On the 1500 it's inside the gas tank.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top