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History the bike has been running great for two years..new belts, filters, plugs, oil as needed.

It ALWAYS started up in one second..barely had to hit the starter button and she fired right up..and ran great at any speed in any gear..absolutely no issues.

Now it takes several seconds on the starter to get her fired up and sometimes a second push of the starter button after a 5 second try. Occasionally she will bog down for a second or two on take off..but kicks in if I crank and release the throttle a bit..

Still runs fine once she is going. so what do you think something is starting to go south just not sure where to start looking testing..fuel filter?, timing, points, dirty carbs???


I have put some seafoam in and I am running the tank down to see if that clears it up 100 miles to go..on the tank.
 

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RB wrote:
....Occasionally she will bog down for a second or two on take off..but kicks in if I crank and release the throttle a bit..

A little bittoo rich mixture? Just an idea....
 

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I'll pull the plugs and take a look...shoudl havbe done that first anyway...
 

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also you might think about dropping the starter and give it a good cleaning and check the brushes. a starter getting tired will pull a lot of voltage .
 

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Ditto on the above...I was freakin' amazed at how fast the bike fires up after the starter cleaning/rebuild....
 

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Check your fuel pump flow (procedure in Honda Service Manual). Also check for free flow through the filter, and free flow in lines leading to the fuel filter. Sounds like it's taking a for seconds to get fuel to it....
 

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Ok guys will do one at a time to see if one of these things changes things...it's too hot now to do much outside..115 so my wrenching time is limited to early morning...
 

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Roger,

I am leaning on a clean battery cable/ground issue, or just cleaning up the starter.

Most likely that starter has some carbon build up that is dragging the armature down a bit.
 

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Well attention to the starter isn't going to do anything about the bigging down issue.

I swear sometimes it's like folks don't even finish reading a post before they reply to it.

As already suggested pull the spark plugs and see what kind of shape they are in. I would be willing to bet $10 bucks that all the symptoms are due to an ignition problem and that there is nothing wrong with the starter. I'm pretty sure that when you pull the plugs you're gonna find them to be pretty blackened.

The fix may be as simple as new plugs, or it could be that you need to snip your plug wires back a little and reattach the resistor caps, or the caps themselves may be failing, they are known to do so. You could have failing coil/s but I doubt that because the symptoms would be a lot worse if it/they were. Weak spark for what ever reason will produce the symptoms you describe, it will not want to start, will idle a little rough and will bog at lower rpm's/speeds but will run fine above 1800 to 2000 rpm.

Start with a fresh set of plugs and go from there.
 

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Hi RB,

I was having a difficult time in starting my bike from time to time. It sometimes took 2 pushes of the button to get her to ignite and the odd time 3. That’s when I decided to clean the started.

Now I am not saying that is you problem here. It would be a great idea to check the plugs to see what’s happening inside. It’s a lot easier to check a plug then to pull a starter.

In my case though, before I cleaned the starter, I measured the voltage drops at various points around the electrical system… including the wires going to the coils from which they get the power boost up. When my starter was acting up, there was a considerable drop in the voltage going the ignition system. At some points it was below 7.5 volts. The starter was simply sucking the juice from the system. My battery is in its 3[suP]rd[/suP] year and I am sure not at 100%. This did have its effects in this scenario.

As I was cranking the system there was simply not enough spark getting to ALL the plugs. The engine would not start and sometimes after a bit got flooded making the problem worse and killing the idea of a quick getaway.

When it did start, it ran rough until the RPM’s got high enough for the charging system to kick in and then it smoothed out and idled much better. I could see the exact second where the threshold was broken through and the charging system would provide the “running power” on both my DMM and my O-scope.

As a side note, I also found that if I delayed the turning on of the headlamp for 5 to 10 seconds that it greatly helped this system during this troubling time.

When I cleaned my starter it was like night and day. The bike started like it hasn’t for quite some time… almost instant. My voltage and current readings are where I would expect them to be when starting now. The system is much more relaxed.

I would suspect that a lot of Wingers out there that have these old Wings would get another year or two from their battery if their starter were cleaned up. It is the largest draw on the system. Let’s face it… we replace the batteries when they start to fail when starting the bike. Keep that draw to a minimum.

From what I learned from this experience is that I will be doing two things this fall when the bike is put away for her long winter nap and that is:



1) I will build a headlight start up delay circuit. Very easy to build and will help in problems like this.

2) I will be wiring the coils directly to the battery with lower gauge wire and use a high quality relay for the switching. I really don’t think that corroded, small gauge 27 year old wire is doing the trick anymore.



In a way Broke Winger is right when he said “Weak spark for what ever reason will produce the symptoms you describe, it will not want to start, will idle a little rough and will bog at lower rpm's/speeds but will run fine above 1800 to 2000 rpm.”. We’re just looking at the many different reasons for poor spark. We’re both looking at the same stick… just at the different ends!



Tim.
 
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