[Mr Magic Fingers]

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[align=center]:waving:Calling any and all muffler knowledgeable people. :waving:[/align]


Hi Everyone,



As some of you know I have replaced a failing 3[suP]rd[/suP] party muffler on my 82 1100 Aspencade. I am also sure that those of you that knows this are probably tired of hearing me wine and complain about the “louder then I wanted / expected” volume and the “potato potato patato “ sound. I have always felt that these beautiful mufflers could be doing much better. I still believe it. I have NOT installed a crossover pipe.



If you want to know more about what I did, you can check out Part 1 here : http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/68562.html and Part 2 here: http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/70146.html .



I had a gentleman show up yesterday on a 1500 that had the stock exhaust on it and my heart sank. It was sooo smooth and quiet. I was green with envy.



My Plea to You guys:



I have read a few articles here lately that mention repacking mufflers with steel wool and such. I have asked a few questions and have gotten a few good “General Knowledge” answers. But after today’s events, I am looking for that right person or people to chime in here to help me directly with my questions. After what happened today, I really NEED this to happen. So, if you can help, please chime in ESPECIALLY if you have worked with the Harley Davidson Road King Mufflers or know their inner workings.



So… what happen today to get me all fired up? Well, I had just replaced my fuel filter and my son came out and we started to talk about yesterday’s visitor and his bike, in particular it wonderful quietness. I had started the bike and it was idling away. For what reason I don’t know, I went over and folded up my rag and covered the end of the LEFT muffler. The “potato” sound dropped quite a bit. I pushed it on quite hard and it was gone! I thought it was going to stall the engine but it did not.The engine did not slow or stumble a bit. The “potato” sound was just coming from that one muffler! I was a bit shocked.



With the sound so quite now, I could hear a “ting ting ting” sound from the RIGHT side. It almost sounded like I could hear the valve sounds coming from the muffler. I went inside for some steel wool. I had a package of #1 gauge pads from a painting project years ago. They were still in the package. I went out to the bike and took 3 of them and put them into the LEFT muffler and what an incredible difference in the sound. It was so quiet. The “potato” sound was 95% gone. I packed 3 in the right side which was nowhere near as loud. The “tinging” was gone.



I swear the bike sounded like the OEM that was in our driveway yesterday. I revved the engine to about 5k a few times and then kept it at 3k for a minute or so. Everything felt fine. The was no hiccup in the throttle response or anything that I could detect in the engine sounds.



I almost wet myself. I could actually hear the engine running. It was not being drowned out by the throbbing coming from the muffler. My son noticed the silly grin on my face and asked if I was going to cry. The results were truly jaw dropping. The price tag was still on the package… $3.49 for the package.



Can this be true? Or is it TOO good to be true?



Here’s where I need the knowledge to flow to me. There are a ton of these mufflers out there that the Goldwing community won’t use because of the sound. This could be a solution for allot of owners. That is why I did the Part 1 and Part 2 of the installation. I got these shipped from Phoenix Arizona USA to Halifax Nova Scotia Canada for less then $80.00 including shipping. They were new in the box! NEVER USED! The guy had 4 or 5 sets of them.

 

[Mr Magic Fingers]

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The “Potato” sounding muffler.



The mufflers are identical on the out side but not the inside. This is a drawing of the LEFT side. I have included all the details that I could see with out having to remove the muffler. This is the muffler that does the “Potato” sound. I call it Fig 1.



Things to note:



#1 represents the packing in the muffler as it is now. I am assuming this.

#2 represents holes in the inner part of the muffler. I think I remember seeing them in there before I mounted the muffler though I am not 100% sure. There are definitely holes in the rear end of the muffler. You can see them.

#3 is the measurement from the opening of the pipe to the disk inside. The measurement of the LEFT side is 6 ¼ inches.



The disk completely blocks off the straight through airflow with the exceptions of the 4 little slots punched or pressed through this steel plate.

 

[Mr Magic Fingers]

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The “Ting Ting” sounding muffler.



The mufflers are identical on the out side but not the inside. This is a drawing of the RIGHT side. I have included all the details that I could see with out having to remove the muffler. This is the muffler that I can hear a “Ting Ting Ting” sound coming from the engine out the end of it. I call it Fig 2.



Things to note:



#1 represents the packing in the muffler that I am assuming is there.

#2 represents holes in the inner part of the muffler. I think I remember seeing them in there before I mounted the muffler though I am not 100% sure. There are definitely NO HOLES in the rear end of the muffler.

#3 is the measurement from the opening of the pipe to the closes BUMP inside. The measurement of the RIGHT side is 7 inches.



These bumps, which do not block off the exhaust flow, are on the top and bottom of the pipe. If you were to shine a light (which I have done) from one end to the other you would see a “slit” of light come through. About ¼ inch to the eye.

 

[Mr Magic Fingers]

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In my testing of the steel wool, I packed it in the empty space from the end of the piped to the Disk on the LEFT site and to the first Bump on the RIGHT side.



I did not leave these in to take it for a test drive in fears of damaging something. I am not knowledgeable on back pressure issues or re-jetting or mixture settings or any thing like that. I do not want to do anything that might hurt my bike.



My starting questions are:



1) Why do you think these pipes are different?

2) Where should I pack the Stainless Steel Wool?

3) How much is too much? How will I know?

4) Will too much damage the engine?

5) What gauge Stainless Steel Wool should I use?



Let the discussion begin!!



Thanks everyone,



Tim.

 

[duste79]

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Sorry about making "your heart sink "yesterday, but I do love the quite of the 1500. I may know of a set of pipes for a 1100 , a guy scrapped one not too far from me. If you want I could check thier condition and price. You need to advertise that radio install kit you made up, everyone with the older wing would love to have one made up. That was a nice install too.
Nice meeting you by the way.

 

[k1w1t1m]

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They are possible different because one would be for the front cylinder and the other the rear. Unless there is some fancy pipework or one exhaust ends further back then the pipes are different lengths which would be undesireable from an engineering and asthetic veiwpoint.

That's my guess anyway.

 

[DaveO430]

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First of all those mufflers are for a larger displacement engine and will not quiet yours down like maybe sportster mufflers would. also the packing would go inside the muffler in between the perforated tube and the outer can. I don't know if those can be taken apart and repacked but if so go to a bike shop and get muffler packing, not steel wool, it will burn out, and I do mean burn, very quickly. Also a crossover tube will help with the potato sound by evening the exhaust pulses.

 

[Mr Magic Fingers]

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Hey Duste79,



Man... that was some nice sounding pipes you had there. I doubt you seen the rocksI was throwing at you as you drove away!



I would be interested in stock pipes if they were originals in A1 shape. I have quite a bit of time going into these and I do like the look of them in the bum. I know now that these mufflers WILL do what I want. Besides, I am saving my pennies for SS brake lines and the MC / CAL kits.



It was great meeting you as well. I hope you had a great tour around the area.



That was aone-of-a-kind interfacefor the stereo. It took about 3 weeks to designthe cable harness and control interface and build. In top of that another 3 days to get it actually installed in the fairing.



Tim.

 

[Mr Magic Fingers]

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Hi,



What are the symptoms of too much back pressure?



Is it dangerous for the engine?



I could not resist and tried it out on the road this evening. IT WAS AWESOME!



I could hear things I never heard before. I was very careful and keptmy eyes and earson everything. For the first few KM I kept the revs low until I was comfortable in what I was hearing. Then I hit some open road.



Power was great through out it all. As a matter of fact, I had an issue of the motor sputtering at around 4000 to 4500 as if it was a fuel starvation issue since I put these on and that definitely was not there tonight. I would usually just slack off and then re-apply the gas and 9 out of 10 times it would pick back up fine.



The range of power was smooth and efficient.



Tim.

 

[noyb72]

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The Right Harley muffler handles most of the exhaust. The two are different. I know you are way into this but from what I have read (I have stock exhaust,) two Left Road-King mufflers are what you are looking for.

Ron

 

[Mr Magic Fingers]

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Hey Ron,



If I were to use two LEFT mufflers, I would expect the bike to be louder then before. If anything, I would have though about choosing another RIGHT side muffler where the RIGHT side is quieter.



With two RIGHT side mufflers, the “potato” sound would be mostly eliminated right there. This might be something I might consider down the road. I would have to cut out my new custom pipes and have new ones fabricated and re-welded. That new RIGHT side muffler would have to be mounted different on the left side due to the axel nut. I currently am making use of the “dimple” that is in each muffler to help clear the axel nuts.



Tim.

 

[Mr Magic Fingers]

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Hi Dave0430,



Unfortunately, these mufflers cannot be repacked without cutting into them on the exterior which I really really do not want to do though I thought about it.



A crossover tube is not in the plans at this point. Long story, but the time and money to have one fitted (nothing is symmetrical) and the chance to mess up the existing custom bent pipes keeps it on the back burner.



Challenging when I tie your hands eh?



Keep the ideas coming guys!!



Tim.

 

[noyb72]

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BAH!!

Your right, of course.

I got the sides screwed around. Good luck with a solution.

Ron

 

[William_86]

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the 1000 11000 and 1200 will never be as quiet as a 1500 so start saving up for one!

 

[maplewingnut]

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Magic Fingers, I am watching to see how this works out for you. After seeing your sketches I ran out to look at the Harley mufflers in my garage waiting to go on my project 1100. Both mine are the simliar to each other, but are a left and a right. Part # 65538-95 and 65539-95.A little internet search tells me that these are off an Electra Glide. I suspect these are similar in size to your Road King mufflers.

Good luck and ride safe!!

 

[Mr Magic Fingers]

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Maplewingnut,



Yours are both the same… Hmmmm



Do they match up with either of my sketches?



Tim.



*** PM SENT ***

 

[maplewingnut]

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I guess my Electra Glide pipes are a bit like your first sketch. Mine don't have a disk with a slot. There are two chambers with lines of holes. 6 holes on the outlet side and maybe 24 on the inlet side. At the base of each chamber there is a single hole of about 3/16". Both these holes are aligned.



They appear to be identical except that the left one has an intentional dent - perhaps for center stand clearance??



Please excuse my attempt at a sketch:

 

[brianinmaine]

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I wonder what happens if you just shove muffler packing in the end - does it shoot out? Is there a simple way to keep it in, like a piece of wire or something? Even if you had to change it once a year or something, it might be worth it? I have Harley pipes on my 1100 - I think also electraglide? not sure, I have to check later. This is a VERY interesting topic to me, I'd love to make mine quieter, hopefully without a crossover. If that was the only way, I'd just leave it alone, it's not that bad. To me, anyway.

 

[chesapeake cheapskate]

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I don't know much about mufflers, but when we were quieting engines down on the cheap, we tried to break up the sound waves, and not overly increase back pressure. We would cut about half way into an exhaust pipe, and weld a baffle across the hacksaw cut which would make the gases divert. Alternating the cuts from side to side would work best. In the olden days, smaller Hondas had extremely quiet exhausts, and to my best recollection, one could remove some of the baffles from the pipes and get noisier bikes. If there is an unobstructed access to the inside of the pipes, perhaps you could make an insert with a chamber set-up as described above, and slide it (well) into the pipe from the back end to break up the sound waves. Temporarily clamp it to the pipe with a hose clamp, and try it out. If you get the desired result, tack weld or screw it in permanently. Good luck.

 

[Mr Magic Fingers]

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BrianInMaine,



Yes, that is exactly what I did in the first place and as trial and let things idle in the driveway. It sounded wonderful. So curiosity got the best of me and I went for a ride later that evening. I think I giggled all the way or looked pretty darn stupid with that weird grin I get when I discover something simple.



Every thing worked wonderful until it came out of the tail pipe. Then it was back to normal.



I am waiting for packing material to come in this Wednesday. We will see what happens then.



Tim.