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Greetings all. My brother just bought an a 86 ASPY with the preverbial erratic idle and slow throttle response at lower RPM's. I am trying to resolve a problem for him. The computer indicates a bad TPS with W steady and 0 + 1 flashing. The FUEL SYSTEM light is ON STEADY . I have read many forum subject post regarding this matter and still cant seem to isolate the cause after throwing many parts and hours at the problem. I am seeking wisdom, guidance and experience from you wingers out there who have been down this same road. This is a long post so bear with me.

PARTS REPLACED OR SUBSTITUTED:

TPS sensor replaced with a used sensor that checked to specs. Reference voltage and return Voltages back to the computer were good. Smooth resistance operation and voltage increase/decrease were smooth and within specs. 3 pin connector male and female replaced. DISCONNECTED TPS 3 PIN CONNECTOR AND STILL GET SAME ECU CODE

FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR NEW ONE ( AFTER MARKET PR31 )

pbl/pbr swapped with each other and a pair of used ones that I purchased. Vaccum lines to the sensors were replaced.

gl/gr replaced with a new set

NS sensor replaced with NEW / Modified from 85 LTD

ECU SWAPPED: Both ECU's display the same code when the ignition is FIRST switched to ON. Engine NOT Running.

NEW PLUGS

NEW NON-ETHANOL FUEL


Cone filter cleaned at fuel pump inlet

Previous owner had the throttle bodies sync'ed, Modified TPS installed ( I replaced with a used one ) fuel filter replaced, New orings for injector 1, cleaned and tested all injectors, greased all electrical connections on injection harness , compression checked the bike, all GOOD, replaced all exhaust gaskets.

I suspect an electrical signal problem somewhere in the injection harness as I get the code on both ECU's when the key is first turned on but not sure where to go from here. If the bike were running and pressures and flows were involved with the code displayed I obviously would have more to troubleshoot. Talk to me Honda SEI experts! What say ye?


 

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"TPS sensor replaced with a used sensor that checked to specs. Reference voltage and return Voltages back to the computer were good. Smooth resistance operation and voltage increase/decrease were smooth and within specs. 3 pin connector male and female replaced. DISCONNECTED TPS 3 PIN CONNECTOR AND STILL GET SAME ECU CODE"

First thing I would think is open or shorted signal wiring-says so right in the manual and account for the reason the TPS tests fine and you get the code as soon as key is turned on. Start simple have a look at where connector 39 comes together-(white connector left side of fairing). Verify it is making good contact and that the pins of the connector aren't bent, pushed in or corroded.
Also welcome to the forum.
 

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Thank you. I actually replaced the 3 pin connector on both the TPS and injection harness end. I will re-inspect and follow up letting you know what find. Thanks again!
 

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cal757 wrote:
Thank you. I actually replaced the 3 pin connector on both the TPS and injection harness end. I will re-inspect and follow up letting you know what find. Thanks again!
Yep - sorry missed that in your first post. Do you have an ETM for that bike?
 

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If the TPS and adjustment checks good, it almost has to be in the wiring somewhere. I had my TPS unit removed (had to drill out the break off bolts, replaced them with regular bolts), and adjusted it slightly to get a better idle and throttle response. I didn't bother with checking the voltage, I just turned it while the engine was idling, and tightened it down where it seemed to idle best. It ran much better. I never did have any trouble codes.

One thing I did have SERIOUS trouble with, but I don't think would show a trouble code, was the reed valve assemblies. There are 2 of them, one on each side, one for each 2 cylinders. They are connected to the manifolds with red fabric covered hoses, then to each other with a black rubber hose and T fittings, and then to the AIR valve. These reed valve assemblies are no longer available new, and they are made of part rubber and part metal, bonded together. On mine, the rubber was rotted and badly cracked, causing a vacuum leak and an erratic idle. I ordered another set from eBay, and they were no better than what I had. I spent a couple of weeks designing and fabricating new ones. In order to get to them, the entire fuel injection system has to come off, the air plenum that the filter goes on all the way down to the heads.

After fixing those, adjusting the TPS, and replacing about 20' of rotted vacuum tubing, my engine runs like new with an even 100,000 miles on it.
 

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As far as the ETM I have the Haynes service manual and the Factory SEI supplement if that is what you are refering to. If there is another trouble shootong manual, I do not have it!
 

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I am thinking that I need to do the reed valves anyway since I am already half way there. Just do it!
 

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As an update. Not much time to work on the Wing lately. I still have the problem. I jumpered the 3 TPS wires from the 3 pin connector to their respective positions 3,11 and 29 on the ECU connector. This did not remedy the L.E.Ds indicating a positions sensor malfunction. Zero is steady with 1 and 2 flashing. Fuel System light is on continuously when the switch is on as well. Bike runs but throttle response is slow and idle is erratic. I have used the SEI supplement and the TPS sensor test good and all values are correct. HERE'S THE PUZZLE FOR ME:

The fuel system light is powered from pin 14 on the ECU and as I mentioned it is on continuously with the switch. When I check the voltage comming out of pin 14 the value is 1.44 to 1.46 volts. Assuming the light is a 12volt lamp, how can pin 14 illuminte the light with only 1.44 volts? Again, assuming that 1.44 volts IS NOT powering the light, where is the voltge comming from that makes it light? That being said, I am now looking for a rogue voltage source that is powering the light and feeding back onto pin 14 causing all my grief. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks folks!
 

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It aint rocket science
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Not having a wiring diagram, my guess would be the bulb is supplied with +12V and the ECU completes the circuit by providing a ground path when a fault is detected.

JD
 

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DriverRider wrote:
Not having a wiring diagram, my guess would be the bulb is supplied with +12V and the ECU completes the circuit by providing a ground path when a fault is detected.

JD
Exactly, you may have a bad ground connection to the ECU, the low voltage on a pin that should show 0 volts is an indicator of that.
 

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I have been corrected. Pin 14 supplies the ground so there should never be voltage on it when functoning in a NORMAL capacity. The Fuel system light is magically shorting to ground or a component of the fuel system is causing the circuit to ground illuminating the light. Keep those thoughts comming my fellow Wingers!
 

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Check the ground to the ECU. There are 2 green wires in the connector, these are ground wires. Check the continuity from those to battery ground.
 

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UPDATE: I think that I have resolved the fuel system light issue being alway's on. I powered pin 30 of the ECU connector with 12vdc directly from the battery and the light went out. It reappeared on steady again after depowering/repowering the system and I again bypassed the harness wiring applying 12vdc. The light went out and remained out on numerous subsequent power ups. The power to pin 30is from the engine stop switch and the starter relay is powered from the same circuit. My theory is that the relay in that circut has a bad contact in it or corrosion that provides the rogue voltage or ground that the light needs to power on. Anyway, knock knock it appears not to be connected to my throttle sensor issue. RIDDLE ME THIS FELLOW WINGERS: I HAVE A DIRECT SHORT ON PIN 29 OF THE ECU CONNECTOR WHEN IT IS PLUGGED INTO THE COMPUTER. I ALSO HAVE 5 VDC REFERENCE POWER ON THAT SAME PIN AS IT SHOULD BE.
Is this correct? Normally, pin 3 is the ground for the throttle sensor. Two ECU's, same result! Please chime in and thanks again for your imput.
 

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Just curious, can you perform the following tests and post your results. Start with everything hooked up. Next disconnect C56 from the ECU (35 pin connector).
Turn ignition switch to ON
Put stop switch to RUN

Test for power between the following pins and battery ground...
Pin 30 (yel/red) *with starter switch pushed in*=
Pin 1 (Wht)=
Pin 19 (Wht)=
Pin 17 (BLU)=
Pin 35 (Yel)=
Pin 14 (Red/Blk)=
Pin 32 (Brn/Blk)=
 

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ALSO: With the throttle sensor completely removed off of the wing, I still get the same code on the ECU, W steady 0 and 1 flashing which would indicitave of a Throttle sensor OPEN or SHORT. With the sensor off of the bike it surely must be harness problem. I have checked for shorts and opens 6 ways to Sunday and I am still missing the boat on this Throttle sensor issue. I just now finished checking the reference voltage, return signal voltage FROM the sensor to the connector and resistance values and ALL are at specifications. I will run the test and provide the results is a couple of minutes. Chime in folks and thanks!
 

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TEST RESULTS: Battery voltage on all pins EXCEPT Pin 30 with the connector Disconnected or connected. What say ye?
 

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cal757 wrote:
TEST RESULTS: Battery voltage on all pins EXCEPT Pin 30 with the connector Disconnected or connected. What say ye?
were you pressing the start button when testing at pin 30?
 

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If you have power at pin #30 when pressing start switch next step test the following pins for continuity...
1st turn ignition and engine stop switch to off, check for continuity between ground and the following pins at connector 56 (all wires green).
Pin #16=
Pin #34=
Pin #2=
Pin #20=
 
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